OSAS anyone? Opinions on Once Saved Always Saved
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So then, are we dead? Or no? It seems a simple matter to me.
We have been crucified with Christ, so how do you kill a dead man?
Much love!
We may have to agree to disagree here.
From my perspective, the fact that Jesus is come in the flesh means that He is human.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Sure we can disagree. But to expand on my position, Jesus "IS NOT" A "human" man...Scripturally.
1 Cor 15:
[40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial:
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God form -ed man of the dust of the ground...
Gen 3:
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
1 Cor 15:
[47]
The
first man " IS " of the earth, earthy:
the
second man " IS " the Lord from heaven.
John 6:
[35] And Jesus said ...
[38] For I came down from heaven...
Luke 24:
[36] And as they (disciples) thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:
[51] And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he (Jesus) was parted from them, (disciples) and carried up into heaven.
* Earthly Forms/Bodies of Flesh, " IS " Terrestrial (Earthly) Flesh OUT OF the Dust of the Earth and RETURNS TO Dust of the Earth.
* Heavenly Forms/Bodies of Flesh, " IS " Celestial (Heavenly) Flesh FROM Heaven and RETURNS to Heaven.
* No one in our day has SEEN Jesus. We rely ON Scriptural Testimonies OF Human men WHO DID SEE Jesus...AND ON Testimonies OF Human men WHO WERE TAUGHT BY Jesus.
Scriptural Teaching:
• Human men Can Not See God and remain Alive.
• Gods Power is very Mighty, and Supreme above All other Powers.
• God "IS" Spirit.
• Celestial Angel's from Heaven "ARE" spirits.
• Terrestrial Earthly men "HAVE A" spirit.
***Eternal God (Almighty) Supreme Power-
CAN "take UPON Himself"...
The "appearance" of an Earthly man.
.......IS LIMITED...BY HIS WORD to ACT....
***Created Angels (great power)-
CAN "ENTER INTO A man's BODY"...(possess)
.........HAS Freewill TO Act......
***Created Earthly Mankind- (little power)
.....HAS Freewill TO Act.....& Choose....
...Gods Supreme Power "with" the man.
...Angel's Great Power "with" the man.
...No higher Power "with" the man.
In essence...Teaching Jesus IS AN Earthly Terrestrial Flesh Man, IS Choosing NO Higher Power "With" that man.
Whereas Scripture Clearly Teaches...
The Word of God, IS God, IS Everlasting, Has the Power to "Appear" as an Earthly man, He "prepared a Body, in the Appearance of an Earthly man, Took the prepared Body Upon Himself, Came Down from Heaven TO Earth, was SEEN by Earthly men in that prepared Flesh Body, Taught Earthly men Heavenly knowledge that had been kept Secret, Revealed Some of His Miracle Powers, Gave that Body unto Death For the World's Forgiveness, Salvation, Life, Offered Mankind the Man's Freewill Option to Accept Jesus' Offering TO BE "with" Gods Spirit...(or Freely Choose to Reject His Offering).
Gods OFFERING...is "From" The Almighty Spirit, and "Given BY" the Almighty Spirit....
* Not a Human man.
Human men can not Save souls, Quicken spirits Or raise a dead Earthly body to Everlasting Life.
There is a HUGE difference BETWEEN;
" Looks Like, Appears Like" a Human man...
And
"IS" a human man.
Still Disagree?
God Bless,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Not human flesh, from Dust OF the Earth.
Scripture tells you Expressly where a humans Flesh comes from and Returns TO.
Scripture tells you Expressly Jesus' Flesh Body came from Heaven.
If your Human Lord and Savior came from Dust... then okay we still disagree.
From my perspective the Holy Ghost overshadowed the womb of Mary and became one with the egg in her womb...thus forming the hypostatic union; wherein we know that it is sound doctrine that Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
That is Human talk, Not Scripture.
The Lord is not a man's mathematical 200% thing.
Taken
Well-Known Member
It is simply a mathematical truth that 100% x 100% = 100%.
I think that scripture may be silent on the subject of mathematics.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Arithmetic is about Numbers and Scripture has multiple passages on that subject.
Mathmetics is about Theories and that is man's guessworks for private interpretations, which Scripture Rejects.
Another of man's Theories, falsely taught as a fact. Not Scriptural.
Another of man's Theories, falsely taught, that man made Doctrines, That supersede Jesus' Doctrines, "are factually Sound"...
• Scripture Expressly Teaches A Human Body had "NO Reproductive PART" in Gods Word coming to Earth in the Likeness AS a man.
John 1:
[13] Which were born ,
Scripture Teaches...A Spirits OFFSPRING of a Spirit and Human....REPRODUCED...Giant Offspring.
• Not One mention in Scripture Implies, Indicates Or Reveals JESUS was unusually Big, giant like.
• Scripture DOES reveal Scriptures indicating JESUS was NOT unusually Big.
•"One" man Took the Dead Body of Jesus.
Matt 27:
[59] And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
[60] And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock:
• Scripture Expressly reveals Jesus could not be Seen in a crowd
Luke 19:
[2] And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
[3] And he sought "to see Jesus" who he was; and "could not" for the press, (crowd) because he was little of stature.
[4] And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
Scripture Teaches...A Spirit mating with a Human Female (was so NOT ACCEPTABLE TO GOD) God Chained those Spirits IN Hell!
•That ^ is man made UN-sound Doctrine, Expressly turning Truth into a Lie.
Romans 1 "warnings"
[25] Who "changed the truth of God into a lie," and "worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator," who is blessed for ever. Amen.
• changing Scriptural truths into lies.
• (not specifically in this discussion, but man's well documented Mary service and worshipping, is included in Romans 1:25)
• warning...
Rom 1:
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind...
Man's Theories are not Scripturally Sound Doctrine.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Dead...like many words in Scripture have Two DIFFERENT meanings, Dependent ON the SOURCE.
We could suppose we have TWO Dictionaries the Reveal the The TWO MEANINGS of Words...
SOURCES:
Websters Dictionary via Man's Natural Mind.
Gods Dictionary via Gods Spirit.
ALIVE Newborn:
Websters- ALIVE
God- DEAD
LIVING man Rejecting God:
Websters- ALIVE
God- DEAD
Living man Rejecting Jesus THE Christ
Websters- ALIVE
God- DEAD
Living man only FOLLOWING The Lord God
Websters- ALIVE
God- DEAD...but "getting A TASTE" of the "EFFECTS" Of LIFE
Living man Converted IN Christ
Websters- ALIVE
God- BODILY DEAD "CRUCIFIED"-
but "spirit" ALIVE - (Gods Seed)
and "soul" ALIVE-
(Restored once and Forever to Very good) ...
Gen 1:31
Pss 23:3
Converted IN Christ- Body DEAD- Cleansed, (Jesus' Blood) Sanctified, (set Apart from evil), Justified (to be Redeemed /Claimed), Promised, (to be Risen UP in Glorious Uncorripted LIFE).
We Converted IN Christ, are Physically "Websters" ALIVE, (and must bear our own burdens) ...
Gal 6:5
We Converted IN Christ, ARE "Gods" Bodily Dead, and "Gods" Spiritually ALIVE, "PREPARED" to Receive, the Manifestation OF Gods PROMISE, to BE "BODILY", raised in uncorrupted Glory.
Eph 3:6
1 Cor 15: 42-43
Yes, We IN Christ ARE "Gods" BODILY Dead,
Prepared (saved Restored soul, born Again quickened spirit), To Receive the PROMISE of God, (raised BODILY in uncorrupted Glory).
Glory To God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Luke 1:35
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
And where is the language ...?
That is not in Scripture.
What is in Scripture ...is
God prepared a BODY for His Word.
God SENT forth out of His Mouth, His Word.
His Word is the Holy "Thing", By His "Power"
He SENT to Mary's Womb.
The child Mary Birth was The Son of Man.
That Man is Abraham.
Expressly, Scripture reveals it had nothing to do with a human....already showed you.
You have to read between the lines (see Psalms 1)...compare Luke 1:35 also with Genesis 3:15.
And, that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is evident in holy scripture (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
Taken
Well-Known Member
So you read the Scripture, and add your own lines between Scripture?
Can you break it down, and enter these between the lines you enter?
Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall "come upon thee",
(What is your inbetween line here?
Did the Holy Ghost climb inside of Mary? Lay on her? Hug her? Hover over her? )
and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
(What is your inbetween line here?
Power of the Highest? What is the Power? Who is the Highest? What is overshadow?
What exactly did this Power Overshadow?)
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(What is your inbetween line here?
What is that Holy Thing? Where "exactly" is that Holy Thing?
Shall be Born of her? How long did she wait for that Holy Thing to be Born?
Shall be called the Son of God? How long did that Holy Thing wait, before it was called the Son of God?)
I can't guess what your inbetween lines are.
So please do share.
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
What is your point of these Scriptures to me?
Do you not know what Exactly what Is my disagreement with you?
I know Jesus Christ came IN THE FLESH, and have Expressly Said so.
My disagreement is "Not with Scripture."
My disagreement "is with You."
You purport Jesus Christ's FLESH "IS HUMAN FLESH."
That is my disagreement with you!
You said to come to the conclusion, Jesus HAS Human Flesh...one must "read between the lines", apparently like you do.
And what? Is this your theory?
Gods Seed Entered Mary's Virgin Womb and Fertilized Mary's Egg? And a Hybred OF Half Human Half Spirit was Born?
Taken
Jesus wasn't a Man, huh?
While I may not be able to think of a scripture that refutes your statement, I think that it is evidently true that you are wrong here.
It should be clear that Jesus was made like us in every way (Hebrews 4:15), yet was without sin.
He came in the likeness of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3)....that means that He came in human flesh like that of Adam's before he sinned...
Jesus was in fact human.
For I also consider that the idea that He is come in the flesh incudes tha idea that He is come in human flesh.
The devil will think of anything to say that he can, to subvert the word of God, and in this instance he may have even come up with something that isn't refuted by the word of the Lord...which is not to say that it is any less heretical doctrine.
While I may not be able to think of a scripture that refutes your statement, I think that it is evidently true that you are wrong here.
It should be clear that Jesus was made like us in every way (Hebrews 4:15), yet was without sin.
He came in the likeness of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3)....that means that He came in human flesh like that of Adam's before he sinned...
Jesus was in fact human.
For I also consider that the idea that He is come in the flesh incudes tha idea that He is come in human flesh.
The devil will think of anything to say that he can, to subvert the word of God, and in this instance he may have even come up with something that isn't refuted by the word of the Lord...which is not to say that it is any less heretical doctrine.
1 Corinthains 15. I'll find it . . .
Here ya go . . .
The second anthropos = human is the Lord out of heaven.
Yes, Jesus is a Man.
Much love!
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