Kenosis False Teaching

[marks]

God is God and I have given plenty of Scriptures proving all of His Omni Attributes while walking this earth.

No its a true claim.

God IS the Father , Son and Holy Spirit- This One God shares all of the same Divine Attributes.

Your jesus lost those attributes for 33 years, That is a false heretical teaching known as kenosis. The EMPTY god.

Like I said if the Father was not Omni All then by default He would not be God. the same holds true for the Son.

hope this helps !!!

And yet the Son did not know when He would be returning. And yet the Son could not do many miracles in Nazareth.

And yet the Son is our High Priest, having shared in humanity with us. Living a life that He could give to us.

"then by default" this only speaks of your understanding, but not something stated in the Bible.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Is that a real question or are you leading somewhere?
He couldn't heal because they lacked faith.
Maybe his return is based on how fast we come together in unity?
Maybe he has a LOT of patience..
just saying.

I don't know if that was an open question for everyone, but I bit anyways..

These are questions that need to be answerable if we have a correct understanding.

I believe what Jesus did was that He put aside every advantage He had being God, and took on the form of a servant, becoming a man, living the sort of life that we can live. That He was given a body of uncorrupted flesh, with no greater advantage over Adam, except that He knew who He was.

That when He asked to be glorified with the glory He had previously shared with the Father, that this is in reference to Jesus emptying Himself, and looking forward to having all that back.

But I believe Jesus became a man just like us, except without sin, so that we could become men just like Him, except not being God.

We are to overcome even as He overcame. There's the heart of the matter.

If Jesus overcame the world by His divine power and glory, then how are we supposed to do it? Because we don't have those. We become partakers of His divine nature, we do not receive our own divine nature.

What we have is the faith of Christ in us. "And the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me."

Much love!

 

[marks]

The breakdown is the trinity. I stated a new thread for our discussion. Until we can agree on the nature of God then we will not ever agree on the nature of Christ.

I tagged you.

You keep spinning this differently. Not His nature, His activity. He emptied himself. This is activity.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

As are your drive bye comments without engaging the OP and its discussion. You have a habit of doing that lately.

I agree with the OP, as far as I can tell, but pointing out flaws in someone who has just pointed out one of your flaws is a childish way to defend yourself. Surely you can see that. You might as well say "I know you're a sinner but what am I?" Your condescension is still offensive.

At one point in this thread, you say that you stay on-topic as if it were your policy when you know as well as I do that it's not true. You're just trying to control the thread you started. You launch into off-topic discussions all the time. We all do.

 

[BarneyFife]

I get the feeling that the terms "kenosis" are "kenoticism" are being conflated quite a lot in this thread.

 

[marks]

I get the feeling that the terms "kenosis" are "kenoticism" are being conflated quite a lot in this thread.

That's the very error present throughout this thread.

Much love!

 

[Ziggy]

These are questions that need to be answerable if we have a correct understanding.

I believe what Jesus did was that He put aside every advantage He had being God, and took on the form of a servant, becoming a man, living the sort of life that we can live. That He was given a body of uncorrupted flesh, with no greater advantage over Adam, except that He knew who He was.

That when He asked to be glorified with the glory He had previously shared with the Father, that this is in reference to Jesus emptying Himself, and looking forward to having all that back.

But I believe Jesus became a man just like us, except without sin, so that we could become men just like Him, except not being God.

We are to overcome even as He overcame. There's the heart of the matter.

If Jesus overcame the world by His divine power and glory, then how are we supposed to do it? Because we don't have those. We become partakers of His divine nature, we do not receive our own divine nature.

What we have is the faith of Christ in us. "And the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me."

Much love!

I heard everything you said.

I have a question though..
Do you believe that while Jesus walked the earth that he walked as a Man.. just plain and simple.
No outside help, no special crutches, just a plain everyday ordinary citizen?

And if so..
When did that change and how?

You believe God the Father was performing and speaking through the man, but it was not the man himself doing the doing?

was tempted just like us, only without sin...
ok what say you?
HUGS

 

[101G]

Yes, interesting journey and although I am undoubtedly closer to it... I am not at the end yet!

Over the years God has changed me on several things other than this Oneness versus whatever vision of God. I used to focus on them and early on after I returned to Him from my lengthy backsliding in 2002 I would purposely engage in debate or discussion with people of opposing views. Somewhere along the line, God stopped me from doing too much of that. What He did with me was... Not answer me specifically on the exact nature of Godhead even though I would ask about it several times.

I did come to understand that His answer to Paul also applied to me on some things [my grace is sufficient for thee]. He has given more answers over the years on different things and indications on this, not to confuse me, but to help me refocus on what He had for me as a part of the Body of Christ. You, apparently, have been led into a more direct involvement on this precise issue.

Because of my knowledge of German and Spanish, I once thought that I would or should become some kind of a missionary to nations where people speak those languages, but God was not in that. Back in the late 80's when I first moved from Wyoming to Oklahoma I specifically asked my first pastor here the question of what I should be doing for God. He really had no answer at all. It was not a long time before I finally discovered that he did not really know answers like that even though he was well versed in the Bible. Well versed in the Bible, but not in the Word of God. I say that carefully because I still see the man once in a while and I like him. He is one of those who never should have been a pastor IMHO.

Thanks again for your responses to my questions.

Amen, and thank you for your encourgment also. for the Lord is not finish with none of us yet. and yes his Grace is sufficient for all of us. Just as what you said is true, "Over the years God has changed me on several things other than this Oneness versus whatever vision of God". in order to find out something that you're right about, you first need to know how wrong you're about it in the first place. then you will be no longer fooled about it.

and to where as for the Godhead, he has called me for this work. just as he has called other for other work. as to what you said about your first pastor who didn't know the answer to what you asked him. as the scriptures states, are all apostles? are all teachers? .... ect... no, no one person knows everything concering God. that's why he had 12 apostles. what he gave Peter he didn't Paul, and what he gave Paul, Jude didn't get. but when all come together, then we all see a bigger, and better picture. each had their own ministry, but when put together is the same GOSPEL only from a different prospective, be it Jewish, Gentile, or for the heathens/pagan.

as said, he has given me an understanding on this subject, "THE GODHEAD". so if a person don't know in this area, they might excell in another area. so as with my previous teacher, I cannot say a bad word about them, for they taught what they was taught, and they did the best with what they had at the time. so with me if you can do better, then do better. as you said, many are still friends of mine, some understand exactly what I'm teaching, and other as you said is not there yet.but I have "TIME", I can wait.

one thing about the word of God is this....... "IT'S NOT CHANGING, BUT JUST NEED TO BE UNDERSTOOD". understanding is the KEY. and that my friend takes ...... "TIME".

be well,

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Christophany,

Please give us your opinion and exposition of Mark 13:32.

 

[marks]

I heard everything you said.

I have a question though..
Do you believe that while Jesus walked the earth that he walked as a Man.. just plain and simple.
No outside help, no special crutches, just a plain everyday ordinary citizen?

And if so..
When did that change and how?

You believe God the Father was performing and speaking through the man, but it was not the man himself doing the doing?

was tempted just like us, only without sin...
ok what say you?
HUGS

It's hard to call Jesus a plain everyday citizen, but, yes, He lived fully as a man.

Hebrews 4:14-16
14) Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Jesus experienced what we do, was in all points tested as we are. The angels came and ministered to Him, strengthening Him. Why would that be?

We need strengthening sometimes, and Jesus understands that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And if so..
When did that change and how?

His resurrection. All was accomplished. And then something more happened when He returned to heaven, I think.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

You keep spinning this differently. Not His nature, His activity. He emptied himself. This is activity.

Much love!

The Trinity definition

 

[BarneyFife]

I don't understand why people can't or refuse to recognize and/or accept paradoxes.

 

[ChristisGod]

His resurrection. All was accomplished. And then something more happened when He returned to heaven, I think.

Much love!

hmmmmI guess you think he magically gained back all His Omni's and became fully God once again.

 

[Ziggy]

How come there are no thumbs down thingy's???

 

[BarneyFife]

He emptied Himself, yet in Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. He was 100% human, yet 100% divine. I don't understand it but I believe it.

 

[Ziggy]

It's hard to call Jesus a plain everyday citizen, but, yes, He lived fully as a man.

Hebrews 4:14-16
14) Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Jesus experienced what we do, was in all points tested as we are. The angels came and ministered to Him, strengthening Him. Why would that be?

We need strengthening sometimes, and Jesus understands that.

Much love!

Alright,
How as a man was Jesus able to walk on the water? raise a dead man? or even claim that he was the I AM?
If he was just a man, wouldn't that make Jesus a liar?

I'm not giving you a hard time. I'm working together ..
HUGS

 

[marks]

hmmmmI guess you think he magically gained back all His Omni's and became fully God once again.

Again, you put words into my mouth wrongly.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Alright,
How as a man was Jesus able to walk on the water? raise a dead man? or even claim that he was the I AM?
If he was just a man, wouldn't that make Jesus a liar?

I'm not giving you a hard time. I'm working together ..
HUGS

Not to worry! These are good questions!

Jesus knew Who He was, where He had come from, and that He was returning there, John 13.

Peter walked on water, Peter also raised the dead, so using one's own divine power isn't required, as Peter did not have that. Peter did these things through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 3:22-30
22) And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23) And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24) And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25) And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26) And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27) No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

The Pharisees said that Jesus cast the devils out by the prince of devils. Jesus warned them against calling the Holy Spirit, the true source, an unclean spirit.

In the parallel passage:

Matthew 12:24-28
24) But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25) And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26) And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27) And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Jesus comes right out with it, He casts our devils by the Spirit of God. That is how we can cast out devils.

Jesus knew that He is I AM, but took no advantage of that fact. Again, to live a completely human life, yet without the corruption of sin, without committing sin, and knowing He is God.

He wasn't just a man, but lived as just a man.

John 5:19 "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."

And this is exactly how we are to live, nothing of ourselves, everything from God, in His power, by His Spirit.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

Again, you put words into my mouth wrongly.

Much love!

The Trinity definition

I'm still waiting your response in this thread.