rethinking the prophets...

[Randy Kluth]

Usually it's a bad sign when someone has itchy ears.

Good point!

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

I'm not sure that's true. It's not okay to prophesy anything wrong, as I see it. We shouldn't be running around prophesying doom, if it isn't from God. Chicken Little!

I'm just telling you what Jeremiah wrote. If you disagree with him that's your business.

 

[Paul Christensen]

The election is far from over. Indeed, if there was any shred of integrity in any branch of government, this fraudulent election would be deemed null and void. Let's hope the Supreme Court rules thus.

As to modern prophets, they are not to be trusted, since the apostles and prophets are to be found only in Scripture.

I agree. New Testament prophecy is limited to the local church environment and it is for the local congregation, and is judged by the local leadership who will compare it to what is written in Scripture. It is not new revelation, but must be on the basis of revelation that is already contained in the Scriptures. It is for the encouragement, building up and comfort of believers in the local church. It can take the form of someone sharing an encouraging word, an insight from Scripture, or a sermon. There is absolutely no support in the New Testament for any "This is what the Lord is saying" type of prophecy. That went into history with the Old Covenant where God's chosen people are the church and no longer the nation of Israel. "Prophets to the Nation" is not Biblical. We don't see in Scripture any "Prophets to the Roman Empire" because the mission of the Holy Spirit is to empower believers to make disciples for Christ, not to make prophetic statements about the state of national politics, future leaderships, or what is going to take place in the world's future.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

I'm not sure that's true. It's not okay to prophesy anything wrong, as I see it. We shouldn't be running around prophesying doom, if it isn't from God. Chicken Little!

For example, Jonah didn't preach, repent or God's judgment will fall! He preached, God's judgment is coming down on your head. It didn't. But Jonah is a prophet of righteousness.

 

[Paul Christensen]

For example, Jonah didn't preach, repent or God's judgment will fall! He preached, God's judgment is coming down on your head. It didn't. But Jonah is a prophet of righteousness.

The wholesale repentance of the people became a game changer. It changed the whole situation, causing God to give them a suspended sentence. But the sentence was still there, and the judgment fell upon Nineveh later on to a subsequent generation who turned back to wickedness.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Jonah named the days. And it wasn't a generation after. I think it was 30 days. I'm not going to look it up.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

The wholesale repentance of the people became a game changer. It changed the whole situation, causing God to give them a suspended sentence. But the sentence was still there, and the judgment fell upon Nineveh later on to a subsequent generation who turned back to wickedness.

The preceding was intended as a reply.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

The wholesale repentance of the people became a game changer. It changed the whole situation, causing God to give them a suspended sentence. But the sentence was still there, and the judgment fell upon Nineveh later on to a subsequent generation who turned back to wickedness.

Regardless, it illustrates the point through Jeremiah.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Regardless, it illustrates the point through Jeremiah.

The wholesale repentance of the people became a game changer. It changed the whole situation, causing God to give them a suspended sentence. But the sentence was still there, and the judgment fell upon Nineveh later on to a subsequent generation who turned back to wickedness.

The point is Jonah said it was a done deal. He didn't tell them to repent. That's an example of Jeremiahs statements. Jeremiah wrote that if the man prophecies God's wrath is going to fall and it doesnt, that doesn't mark him as false. Only if he says "peace, peace," and it's not peace, then he's a false prophet.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Jonah named the days. And it wasn't a generation after. I think it was 30 days. I'm not going to look it up.

The actual prophecy by Jonah said 40 days. But the judgment didn't happen because the people repented. History tells us that it was much later that Nineveh was actually destroyed because the subsequent generations went back to their wicked ways.

 

[Brakelite]

Not all false, LoL. You just need to exercise some discernment. "Most are false" would be accurate. "All are false" would not.


Correct, Randy. It is a matter of discernment. Personally, I listen to almost no one. There are a few however that I do hold in high regard. Despite stating unequivocally that Trump would win in 2016 months in advance, neither of them prophesied definitively one way or the other on this election. The reason is because so much was hanging in the balance as far as if the church was going to pray like she was commanded to or not. She didn't.

Without wanting to sound too pessimistic, I know the American church, and I knew she likely wouldn't be praying, at least nowhere near to the extent needed to save this election. As a result, I posted dreams several months ago that stated we would have the result that we now have. Trump lost.

But when it comes to the prophetic, everything depends on discernment, from what you hear to what you receive personally. You have to become trained to hear His voice, and block out all else.

God bless,
Hidden

That's an interesting perspective. It reminds me of a couple of incidents in the book of Acts. Peter and Paul were imprisoned on separate occasions. Peter first. The church fasted and prayed earnestly for his release and angels intervened and got him out. Paul on the other hand was not released but had to appeal to the emperor and it led to an early unnecessary death. His. Why? Because there is no record of the church praying for Paul. Possibly for two reasons...they still had reservations about Paul or the church had become complacent. Or both. And perhaps the church hasn't prayed for Trump for the same reasons????

 

[Brakelite]

I don't know how the details will pan out in the immediate future. Whether the present administration of Trumps is involved, or a future administration, I don't know. But what I do believe with absolute certainty, just from scripture, is that

• soon the whole world (Revel. 13:7,8 )
• will follow the Papacy (Revel.13:16,17)
• and it will be the United States (Revel. 13:11,12)
• that assists in creating (Revel.13:12-14)
• the "unholy alliance" between the Vatican and the kings of the earth (Revel.18:3)
• that establishes the final global persecuting power (Revel.13:15)
• against God's people. (Revel.14:12)

I know others have different understanding of these passages of scripture that I've quoted. I'm not keen to debate the above scenario on this thread....I'm just putting it out there so that when this is beginning to take shape, you'll remember. Be warned. A global alliance of Catholicism, American based apostate Protestantism in union with the state, and spiritualism, will bring ruin and devastation upon mankind, and eternal loss to those deceived thereby. But don't for a moment think such a scenario will be obvious. It won't appear evil. In fact quite the opposite, because Revelation 13:14 says of the U.S.A that it would "say to them that they should make an image to the beast". What does that mean? It isn't a statue for a start. The first beast is a union of church and state. What America is asking its people to do is approve by popular demand (thus denoting a democratic decision even overturning the constitution) to make the principles or certain explicit spiritual laws of the papacy inherited and taught by American Protestantism legally binding on its people, thus forming a mirror image of the medieval papacy...the first beast... a union of church and state. This of course is all done by deception. (Revel.13:14). Nothing will be as it seems.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

The actual prophecy by Jonah said 40 days. But the judgment didn't happen because the people repented. History tells us that it was much later that Nineveh was actually destroyed because the subsequent generations went back to their wicked ways.

Ninevah was destroyed, but not utterly: Mat 12:41--The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

I don't know how the details will pan out in the immediate future. Whether the present administration of Trumps is involved, or a future administration, I don't know. But what I do believe with absolute certainty, just from scripture, is that

• soon the whole world (Revel. 13:7,8 )
• will follow the Papacy (Revel.13:16,17)
• and it will be the United States (Revel. 13:11,12)
• that assists in creating (Revel.13:12-14)
• the "unholy alliance" between the Vatican and the kings of the earth (Revel.18:3)
• that establishes the final global persecuting power (Revel.13:15)
• against God's people. (Revel.14:12)

I know others have different understanding of these passages of scripture that I've quoted. I'm not keen to debate the above scenario on this thread....I'm just putting it out there so that when this is beginning to take shape, you'll remember. Be warned. A global alliance of Catholicism, American based apostate Protestantism in union with the state, and spiritualism, will bring ruin and devastation upon mankind, and eternal loss to those deceived thereby. But don't for a moment think such a scenario will be obvious. It won't appear evil. In fact quite the opposite, because Revelation 13:14 says of the U.S.A that it would "say to them that they should make an image to the beast". What does that mean? It isn't a statue for a start. The first beast is a union of church and state. What America is asking its people to do is approve by popular demand (thus denoting a democratic decision even overturning the constitution) to make the principles or certain explicit spiritual laws of the papacy inherited and taught by American Protestantism legally binding on its people, thus forming a mirror image of the medieval papacy...the first beast... a union of church and state. This of course is all done by deception. (Revel.13:14). Nothing will be as it seems.

Seems close, but it's not. "The kingdom of God doesn't come with your careful observation. The Kingdom of God is within you." The most important versus of prophecy, if you mean to show God your right division look like this:

• Dan 10:17-19
• Dan 10:20a--Then he said, "Do you know why I have come to you?"
• Rev 1:17

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's an interesting perspective. It reminds me of a couple of incidents in the book of Acts. Peter and Paul were imprisoned on separate occasions. Peter first. The church fasted and prayed earnestly for his release and angels intervened and got him out. Paul on the other hand was not released but had to appeal to the emperor and it led to an early unnecessary death. His. Why? Because there is no record of the church praying for Paul. Possibly for two reasons...they still had reservations about Paul or the church had become complacent. Or both. And perhaps the church hasn't prayed for Trump for the same reasons????

Interesting point. I'm not sure God's will is entirely determined by our prayers, but they certainly are involved. I think your point about Trump is well taken, because many, many Christians chose to drink the kool aid from the media that Trump was of horrible character. So these Christians voted for the guy with the worst, unChristian policies simply because they were led to believe Trump was "rude!"

Good point. True Christianity would pray even for bad leaders. Christians, in this case, wouldn't even vote for Trump when his policies were pro-Christian and largely successful! We get what we deserve.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Interesting point. I'm not sure God's will is entirely determined by our prayers, but they certainly are involved. I think your point about Trump is well taken, because many, many Christians chose to drink the kool aid from the media that Trump was of horrible character. So these Christians voted for the guy with the worst, unChristian policies simply because they were led to believe Trump was "rude!"

Good point. True Christianity would pray even for bad leaders. Christians, in this case, wouldn't even vote for Trump when his policies were pro-Christian and largely successful! We get what we deserve.

There's an interesting point about the media. When Lester Sumrall, the well-known evangelist went to visit Smith Wigglesworth in Bradford, England, a little before the second world war, he had his newspaper under his arm. Wigglesworth wouldn't allow him to bring the newspaper into the house, because he didn't want "those lies" to come come through his door. Seeing that the media is made up mostly of opinion, the description of the media being lies is quite feasible.

 

[marks]

I'm just telling you what Jeremiah wrote. If you disagree with him that's your business.

Jeremiah 26
18 Micah the Morasthite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spake to all the people of Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Zion shall be plowed like a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of a forest.
19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the Lord, and besought the Lord, and the Lord repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.

They were defending Jeremiah's prophesying the destruction of Jerusalem essentially on the basis that it might not happen but Jeremiah could still be a true prophet, if it were stayed because of their repentence.

I think that's how most modern prophets give themselves "wiggle room" when making their predictive prophecies. It's like they don't want to be held to the same standard as how they want to be treated.

Much love!

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Jeremiah 26
18 Micah the Morasthite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spake to all the people of Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Zion shall be plowed like a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of a forest.
19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the Lord, and besought the Lord, and the Lord repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.

They were defending Jeremiah's prophesying the destruction of Jerusalem essentially on the basis that it might not happen but Jeremiah could still be a true prophet, if it were stayed because of their repentence.

I think that's how most modern prophets give themselves "wiggle room" when making their predictive prophecies. It's like they don't want to be held to the same standard as how they want to be treated.

Much love!

At the end of the day I think the prophet of righteousness willingly or under divine judgment, as with Jonah, surrenders all judgment to God. Those prophets in with ulterior motives don't give thought.

A church I often attend here in a city like Sodom, used to have a fellow they called "prophet" visit from time to time and deliver a message. He always gave me bad vibes. There was a season when families in that church were getting struck time and again. That "prophet" came and prophesied, "there's not going to be any more deaths!" That very week the worship leader died. The church just kind of tried to not acknowledge anything. That's when I knew he was a false prophet. He said, "peace! peace!" And God proved him a liar.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

I'll have to go back and read how that went again, in due time.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Jeremiah 26
18 Micah the Morasthite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spake to all the people of Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Zion shall be plowed like a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of a forest.
19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the Lord, and besought the Lord, and the Lord repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.

They were defending Jeremiah's prophesying the destruction of Jerusalem essentially on the basis that it might not happen but Jeremiah could still be a true prophet, if it were stayed because of their repentence.

I think that's how most modern prophets give themselves "wiggle room" when making their predictive prophecies. It's like they don't want to be held to the same standard as how they want to be treated.

Much love!

Just a minor point... It wasn't Jeremiah who gave the prophecy. It was Micah. Jeremiah therefore wasn't prophesying at that point. He was report that Micah prophesied, Hezekiah sought the Lord, and the Lord held back on the destruction of Jerusalem. With all the prophecies concerning judgment on Israel and Judah, included was a plea from the Lord that the people turn back to Him so that the judgment prophesied would not happen. I believe that Simon in Acts, who offered money for the Holy Spirit, repented and asked Peter and John to pray for him so that the judgment Peter said to him would not happen. Repentance is always a game changer when it comes to judgment prophecies.