Mother of James?

[Pearl]

“True Christian” how do you become a “true Christian”?

If you don't already know you need to find out.

 

[WaterSong]

Is Mary the mother of James?

Yes. Matthew 13.
This is that disciple to whom Jesus loved, that one referred to in John 19 as he was dying on the cross. "Woman, here is your son."

 

[WaterSong]

If you don't already know you need to find out.

If you're a true Christian aren't you to be ready to answer theefaith's question?

 

[Pearl]

If you're a true Christian aren't you to be ready to answer theefaith's question?

I already did in a previous post. But the sad thing people never take any notice. But if they have to discover for themselves then they might.

 

[Pearl]

Jesus said to the apostles, and five hundred believers on Mount Tabor, the following:

Remember that in an organism a hierarchy is required, so that it may be really active, and wholesome, that is, someone who commands, someone who transmits orders, and those who obey. That is what happens in the courts of kings, as well as in religions. From our Hebrew religion to the others, even if they are so impure, there is always a chief, his ministers, the servants of the ministers, and lastly the believers. A pontiff cannot act by himself. A king cannot act by himself. And, their dispositions concern only human contingencies, or the formalism of rites...yes. Unfortunately, now, also in the Mosaic religion, there is nothing left but the formalism of rites, the continuation of the movements of a device that goes on making the same gestures, even now that the spirit of the gestures is dead. Dead forever. Their Divine Enlivener, He Who gave import to the rites, has withdrawn from them. And, the rites are gestures, nothing else. Gestures that any histrion could mime on the stage of an amphitheatre.

Woe, when a religion dies, and from a real living power becomes a clamorous exterior pantomime, an empty thing behind a painted scenery, behind pompous garments, the movements of devices performing certain actions, just as a key activates a spring, but neither the key nor spring is conscious of what they do. Woe! Ponder! Remember this truth and tell your successors about it, so that it may be known throughout ages. The fall of a planet is less frightening than the fall of religion. If they sky should be depopulated of its stars and planets, it would not be for peoples as bad a misfortune as if they remained without religion. God would provide with provident power for the needs of men, because God can do everything for those who, in a wise way, or in the way that their ignorance knows, seek and love the Divinity in a right spirit. But, if the day should come when men no longer loved God, because the priests of every religion had made only an empty pantomime of it, as they were the first not to believe in their religion, woe betide the Earth!

Now, if I say so for those religions that are impure, as some have come through partial revelation to a wise person, some derive from the instinctive need of man to create a faith for himself to nourish his soul to love a god—as this need is the strongest incentive of man, the permanent state of research for Him Who is, and Who is wanted by the spirit, even if the proud intellect refuses to pay homage to any god, even if man, unaware of the soul, is unable to give it a name to such need that stirs within him—what shall I say for this religion that I have given you, for this one that bears My Name, for this one of which I have created you pontiffs and priests, for this one that I order you to propagate all over the world? For this religion Unique, True, Perfect, Immutable in the Doctrine taught by Me, the Master, completed by the continuous teaching of Him Who will come, the Holy Spirit, the Most Holy Guide for My Pontiffs, and for those who will help them, second chiefs in the various Churches created in the various regions where My Word will be asserted. These Churches, although various in number, will not be different in thought, but will be one thing only with the Church, as with their individual parts they will form the great building, greater and greater, the great new Temple, that with its pavilions will reach all the corners of the earth. Not different in thought, nor contrasting with one another, but united, brotherly to one another, all subjected to the Head of the Church, to Peter, and to his successors until the end of time.

And, those that for any reason should separate from the Mother Church, would be members cut off, no longer nourished with the mystic blood that is Grace coming from Me, the divine Head of the Church. Like prodigal sons, separated through their own will from the paternal house, in their short-lived wealth, and constant, and graver, and graver misery, they would be blunting their spiritual intellects by means of too heavy foods, and wines, and then they would languish eating the bitter acorns of unclean animals until they returned to the paternal house, saying with contrite hearts: "We have sinned. Father, forgive us, and open the doors of your abode to us". Then, whether it is a member of a separated Church, or an entire Church—oh! if it were so, but where, when will so many imitators of Me arise, capable of redeeming these entire separated Churches, at the cost of their lives, to make, to remake only one Fold under only shepherd, as I ardently wish?—then whether it is only one person, or an assembly that comes back, open the doors to them.

Be fatherly. Consider that all of you, for one hour, or for many, perhaps for years, were, individually, prodigal sons enveloped in concupiscence. Do not be hard on those who repent. Remember! Remember! Many of you ran away twenty two days ago. And, was your running away perhaps not an abjuration of your love for Me? Therefore, as I received you as soon as you, repentant, came to Me, do the same yourselves. Do everything I did. That is My command. You lived with Me for three years. You know My deeds, and My thoughts. When, in future, you will find yourselves in front of a case to be decided, look back to the time when you were with Me, and behave as I behaved. You will never go wrong. I am the living, perfect example of what you have to do.

And, remember also that I did not refuse Myself even to Judas of Kerioth... A priest must try to save, by all possible means. And, let love always prevail, among the means used to save. Consider that I was not unaware of Judas' horror... But, overcoming all disgust, I treated the wretch as I treated John. You...you will often be spared the bitterness of knowing that nothing is of any use to save a beloved disciple... And, you will therefore be able to work without the tiredness that affects one, when one knows that everything is useless... One must work even then... always...until everything is accomplished..." (The Poem of the Man-God: Volume 5 by Maria Valtorta)

@soul Can you give scripture references for that so I may read it in my bible.

 

[theefaith]

If you don't already know you need to find out.

m asking you

 

[theefaith]

Just curious . . . why is this important?

Mark 3:31-35 NIV - "Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." 33 "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. 34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

The only thing that matters is that a person seek the Holy Work of Christ upon their Hearts. All other knowledge or "works" is useless.

Who Mary is says who Jesus is!

only begotten of the father
Only begotten of the mother

cos she is also our mother, I will not leave you orphaned


St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

 

[WaterSong]

I already did in a previous post. But the sad thing people never take any notice. But if they have to discover for themselves then they might.

I didn't see that prior to posting my comment to you.
You could have directed them to that previous post, even shared the link?
Some people need to be taken by the hand ya know. :)

That's because the scoop on the bulldozer is in the up locked position.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

If this is True, then how do we explain the following verse?

John 7:3-5 NLT - ". . . and Jesus' brothers said to him, "Leave here and go to Judea, where your followers can see your miracles! 4 You can't become famous if you hide like this! If you can do such wonderful things, show yourself to the world!" 5 For even his brothers didn't believe in him."

How does the vaginal shrine of Mary produce brothers to Jesus that don't believe in Him? (And please . . . a clear and simple answer would be appreciated. Give me your own words, and not words of someone else.

 

[Illuminator]

If this is True, then how do we explain the following verse?

John 7:3-5 NLT - ". . . and Jesus' brothers said to him, "Leave here and go to Judea, where your followers can see your miracles! 4 You can't become famous if you hide like this! If you can do such wonderful things, show yourself to the world!" 5 For even his brothers didn't believe in him."

How does the vaginal shrine of Mary produce brothers to Jesus that don't believe in Him? (And please . . . a clear and simple answer would be appreciated. Give me your own words, and not words of someone else.

For the millionth time, "brothers" in this passage does not mean biological siblings.

Luke 22:32 – Jesus tells Peter to strengthen his “brethren.” In this case, we clearly see Jesus using “brethren” to refer to the other apostles, not his biological brothers.

Acts 1:12-15 – the gathering of Jesus’ “brothers” amounts to about 120. That is a lot of “brothers.” Brother means kinsmen in Hebrew. Or you believe that Mary was pregnant for 90 consecutive years to produce that many "brothers' which is stupid and absurd.

Acts 7:26; 11:1; 13:15,38; 15:3,23,32; 28:17,21 – these are some of many other examples where “brethren” does not mean blood relations.

Rom. 9:3 – Paul uses “brethren” and “kinsmen” interchangeably. “Brothers” of Jesus does not prove Mary had other children.

Gen. 11:26-28 – Lot is Abraham’s nephew (“anepsios”) / Gen. 13:8; 14:14,16 – Lot is still called Abraham’s brother (adelphos”) . This proves that, although a Greek word for cousin is “anepsios,” Scripture also uses “adelphos” to describe a cousin.

Gen. 29:15 – Laban calls Jacob is “brother” even though Jacob is his nephew. Again, this proves that brother means kinsmen or cousin.

Deut. 23:7; 1 Chron. 15:5-18; Jer. 34:9; Neh. 5:7 -“brethren” means kinsmen. Hebrew and Aramaic have no word for “cousin.”

2 Sam. 1:26; 1 Kings 9:13, 20:32 – here we see that “brethren” can even be one who is unrelated (no bloodline), such as a friend.

2 Kings 10:13-14 – King Ahaziah’s 42 “brethren” were really his kinsmen.

1 Chron. 23:21-22 – Eleazar’s daughters married their “brethren” who were really their cousins.

Neh. 4:14; 5:1,5,8,10,14 – these are more examples of “brothers” meaning “cousins” or “kinsmen.”

Amos 1: 9 – brotherhood can also mean an ally (where there is no bloodline).

Jesus having biological brothers was not taught by any of the early reformers, it is a 200 year old man made tradition.

 

[theefaith]

If this is True, then how do we explain the following verse?

John 7:3-5 NLT - ". . . and Jesus' brothers said to him, "Leave here and go to Judea, where your followers can see your miracles! 4 You can't become famous if you hide like this! If you can do such wonderful things, show yourself to the world!" 5 For even his brothers didn't believe in him."

How does the vaginal shrine of Mary produce brothers to Jesus that don't believe in Him? (And please . . . a clear and simple answer would be appreciated. Give me your own words, and not words of someone else.

it is thru Mary’s intercession that they do come to faith, Jn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.


There was no word for cousin, or for nephew or niece, or for aunt or uncle, or for step-brother or step-sister in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic – the words that the Jews used in all those instances were “brother” or “sister”.

Genesis 14:14, “Now when Abram [Abraham] learned that his brother [Lot] had been taken captive…” Your translation might say “kinsman” because the translator knew that Lot was not Abram’s brother, but the actual word used in the Hebrew is “brother”.

Lot, was Abram’s nephew, not his brother. Genesis 11:27, “Terah was the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran was the father of Lot.”
So, Lot was Abram’s, or Abraham’s, nephew. Yet, Scripture refers to him as Abraham’s “brother”. Very interesting.

2) Scripture makes the case for Mary’s perpetual virginity:

Matthew 27:55-56, “There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to Him; among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.

Matthew 27:55-56, Mark 15:40, Luke 24:10, and John 19:25 make it obvious that the James and Joses mentioned in Mark 6:3, were the sons of a woman named Mary, but not Mary the mother of Jesus. So the brothers and sisters mentioned there were kinfolk of Jesus, but they were not immediate brothers and sisters.

Galatians 1:19, “But I saw none of the other Apostles except James the Lord’s brother.” In Matthew 10:2-4, we see a list of the Apostles. Two of them were named “James”. So, if James is the Lord’s brother, as in a son of Mary and Joseph, then we would expect to find a “James” in the list of the Apostles who is identified as the “son of Joseph”. But, guess what? No, James, the son of Joseph. There is James the son of Zebedee and the other James is identified as the son of Alphaeus. So, once again, the Lord’s “brother” is not a son of Mary the mother of Jesus.

Ezekiel 44:2, “This gate [of the sanctuary] will remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore, it shall remain shut.”

St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and other Church Fathers regarded this gate through which the Lord entered His temple as being synonymous with Mary. No one, other than the Lord, enters by her.

 

[Pearl]

I didn't see that prior to posting my comment to you.
You could have directed them to that previous post, even shared the link?
Some people need to be taken by the hand ya know. :)

That's because the scoop on the bulldozer is in the up locked position.

Post 130

 

[WaterSong]

“True Christian” how do you become a “true Christian”?

Post 130

Thanks.
Here you go theefaith. Linked>Post 130

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

For the millionth time, "brothers" in this passage does not mean biological siblings.

That's an interesting thing to say considering that you only have 627 posts. So, I'm very sorry that you have such seemingly disgust and distain for me. I certainly don't feel that way about yourself.

I'm no expert, but isn't adelphos (Greek) a masculine noun? From ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)

Again, I am sorry that you've repeated yourself a million times, but I have never heard anyone complain about the way this passage has been used as I used it above.

If you have room in your Heart, please forgive me.

 

[Illuminator]

That's an interesting thing to say considering that you only have 627 posts. So, I'm very sorry that you have such seemingly disgust and distain for me. I certainly don't feel that way about yourself.

I'm no expert, but isn't adelphos (Greek) a masculine noun? From ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)

Again, I am sorry that you've repeated yourself a million times, but I have never heard anyone complain about the way this passage has been used as I used it above.

If you have room in your Heart, please forgive me.

Of course. A multitude of scriptures exposing the man made tradition of Jesus' "brothers" is not complaining. It's explaining the obvious.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Of course. A multitude of scriptures exposing the man made tradition of Jesus' "brothers" is not complaining. It's explaining the obvious.

?

 

[Illuminator]

?

First, I have no disdain or disgust with you. I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion. Second, "a millionth time" is hyperbole for "many", it is not literal. John 7:3-5 does not prove Jesus had biological siblings because "brothers" is used in the sense of relatives, a community or even close friends, as is found all over the place in scripture.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I'm no expert, but isn't adelphos (Greek) a masculine noun? From ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)

 

[Illuminator]

I'm no expert, but isn't adelphos (Greek) a masculine noun? From ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)

The very fact that John refers to the Virgin Mary, the mother of Christ, as having a "sister," in Greek an adelphé, named Mary, proves the point that will often be made, that the word brother, adelphos, or the word sister, adelphé, doesn't necessarily always mean a blood brother or a blood sister. It can also mean a relative of some sort, like a cousin. Because it seems very unlikely, it's not impossible, but it's very unlikely that the Virgin Mary had a blood sister named Mary as well. But it would've been very common for her to have a cousin or a relative named Mary, and that's who this other Mary is being identified here as in the Gospel of John. So when we take the evidence from Matthew's Gospel, and we put it together with the evidence from John's Gospel, it seems quite clear, in fact there's no other way to really read the evidence, that James and Joseph, the so-called brothers of Jesus, are the sons of another Mary who's related to the Virgin Mary and who is the wife of a man name Clopas.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The very fact that John refers to the Virgin Mary, the mother of Christ, as having a "sister," in Greek an adelphé, named Mary, proves the point that will often be made, that the word brother, adelphos, or the word sister, adelphé, doesn't necessarily always mean a blood brother or a blood sister. It can also mean a relative of some sort, like a cousin. Because it seems very unlikely, it's not impossible, but it's very unlikely that the Virgin Mary had a blood sister named Mary as well. But it would've been very common for her to have a cousin or a relative named Mary, and that's who this other Mary is being identified here as in the Gospel of John. So when we take the evidence from Matthew's Gospel, and we put it together with the evidence from John's Gospel, it seems quite clear, in fact there's no other way to really read the evidence, that James and Joseph, the so-called brothers of Jesus, are the sons of another Mary who's related to the Virgin Mary and who is the wife of a man name Clopas.

I would never agree with your Illumination on this matter, so I will just have to walk away from this discussion.

Have a good T-Day!