I’m not sure which “those people” you are referring to, but LDS Christians believe that the Bible includes things which are literally true (like the resurrection ) and ones that are stories to convey a true message (like the parables of Christ ). There’s also parts we don’t know the extent of the literalness (like Noah’s flood).
Another question for mormons.
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If @ReChoired believes or you believe that to be his and/or you calling, who am I to say more than I have already said? God doesn't need help but He does use people. Sometimes He uses me. Sometimes He also, I believe, uses @Jane_Doe22 .
When we open our mouths what are we teaching?
"A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:35-37
"And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. " Matt 5:2-11
I know. That is what Mormonism (a religion of lies) did to them. Because of all the lies in that system, and that they were never told the truth, they turned from the 'God' they were sold, and didn't want to consider that there is a true God out there, in anger against Him, because they figured why would they be allowed to believe a lie their whole life, and blamed the true God for it, and are basically still angry.
I know how that feels, having grown up in Roman Catholicism.
Your prerogative. Too many people are cold & cyncial and have no faith in others, or even in God, who try to do them good, because of all the 'bad' people out there. It's one reason why people do not trust a true prophet when they come along, because they point to the rest of the false, and false experiences. They choose instead to believe nothing, as the man in the video. In some ways, you are that same man, in the same condition.
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See what I mean? See what Mormonism does to people?
They cannot even acknowledge the Bible itself (Global Flood), the religion has messed them up so good, along with other false philosophies, for error always gravitates toward other errors.
@TLHKAJ, which parts of the Bible do you believe *must* be literally true, and which parts do you acknowledge as being parables or having symbolic components?
I don't have a lot of time to go through a list ...but I will say that I believe there was a literal flood exactly as the Bible states.
Would you say that believing the following is required for salvation: a literal global flood with literally every type of animal on a boat of the portions literally described in the Bible?
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Do you think that believing only God's words that relate directly to salvation and discarding everything else He said about non salvational issues is the type of faith required?
Jesus:
Mat_24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat_24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luk_17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk_17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Mat_24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luk_17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk_17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Peter:
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
For salvation ....probably not, unless it's counted as part of "believing God." I choose to believe what He said.
Those are great verses! Those in 2Peter chapter 3 are exactly the ones that came to mind for me...but add to that, that the days of Noah describe the last days ....they are very significant!Jesus:
Mat_24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat_24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luk_17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk_17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Peter:
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Ah, thank you for taking the time to answer.
I agree that it's not something essential to salvation. On the subject of literalness Noah's flood, LDS Christians have a variety of beliefs. Some are literal global, I'm personally of the "local world" camp, and there's a bunch of other views too. It's just something we don't know for sure.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Whatever it is we share should always, I believe, lead back to Jesus. A few posts back you quoted Jesus Himself speaking of false Christ's... And it is true there are many. But not always in the person of humanity. There are numerous false Christs presented as the Savior by churches and individuals, ranging from Oprah Whitney's version to the multitude of denominations and religions all over the globe. Any false representation of Christ is a false Christ that Jesus earned about, not just false impersonators of Christ. Throughout NT scripture we are reminded that it is an imperative in the judgement that Christ knows us. The alternative is disastrous. But for Him to know us, we must also know Him yes?
KJV 1 John 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
I am fully cognizant that we are all at different stages in our growth and understanding. God will not disavow anyone who has not a complete knowledge and understanding of Jesus for we will all be learning more and more of Him in eternity, for none of us have perfect knowledge. But are we growing? Are we firmly attached to that Vine and bearing fruit? Are we being fed from that Vine and growing in grace and understanding? When new light is presented to us, do we turn away and refuse to entertain the idea that maybe this is God trying to get through to us in order for us to have a clearer understanding of our Savior and Lord?
If we refuse to accept what God is trying to teach us about Himself, not wanting to know Him, will we then hear those words, I never knew you? I fear so.
Indeed. Not only is destruction to the wicked therein mentioned on a global scale, so too is salvation expressly figured in type, Noah/Noe. To deny the flood is to deny salvation, for it is a picture of the outworking of God's salvation, even resurrection (symbol by 8) in Christ Jesus - the Ark. In other words, can God save from total destruction and sin (and the world of sin), or not? If the flood was not in any way complete and global, then destruction wasn't really averted, sin was not dealt with, sinners (outside of the Ark) were left alive, and immortalized to continue into the next 'existence' (after the flood).
Sorry I don't know which video you mean. On this thread I have not watched any videos but in any case I do believe in more than nothing. I have been taking hold of a vision so as not to perish.
It is not my calling to seek out and condemn church groups or denominations or individuals. I don't have the time to seek out the negative. If they are condemned already... then...
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:17-19
Rather I am seeking the positive of which Jesus did speak as the first things and then when and where He shows me a need for me to fill, I attempt to do just that.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33
Yes, growing! Who is the teacher to help us to grow toward God? God gave us what?
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" Eph 4:11-14
Where are the teachers that He gave? A Catholic priest taught me and the Franciscan nuns taught me when I was a young Catholic. My older brother taught me when he was an "elder" in the Mormon church. My Pentecostal ministers taught me when I was in the UPC. Individual brothers/sisters in the Lord have taught me in various churches, workplaces, homes and restaurants, etc.
In recent years when I was visiting dozens of local churches I received some teaching, but there were many to which I would purposely never return because they only put on a show to tickle someone's ears. I was hungry and I was thirsty for something from God. God feeds and fills those who hunger and thirst after His righteousness. I have been given to eat and drink of the flesh and blood of Jesus in many places in addition to within the four walls of buildings called 'church'. I eat and drink of Jesus every day. Sometimes it truly overflows and some other person similarly hungry and thirsty person may else join me in a banquet of the Word of God. Give God the glory!
I am careful now concerning any program men call 'church' when it is often teaching people to quench the Spirit of God in favor of what they have decided is the truth. Of course they know, and think and say that they know, what the Truth is. Do they?
Umm, who is preaching this:
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Consider that the word "angel" is a messenger sent from God, and that it applies to people on earth that are speaking these things (see Revelation 1; Galatians 4:14 (positively); 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (negatively)).Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Truth was given to a "body", an organized body.
Eph_2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
1Ti_3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Php_1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
This whole "rambo" scenario, where each individual does their own thing apart from Jesus' body, is itself a heresy.
God calls people out of Babylon (Revelation 14:8, 18:2), the Harlot (1 Corinthians 6:15-20; therefore "flee Babylon, flee fornication"), that they may join his "one" "body", having "one faith", which is a unified identifiable structure.
Rom_12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Eph_4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
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