Who founded your church?

[Philip James]

Like the Papacy?

You think the papacy is an economic and military superpower?
I heard those Swiss guard were good but...

What about Antioch. Pela?

Antioch, I've already quoted. The Church in Pela, I am unfamiliar with, do you have something from them to share?

Peace!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

only Peter and his successors have the keys, jurisdictional authority over the church
The apostles have power to teach and bind and loose and administer the sacraments and forgive sins

Okay, whatever you say.

 

[Brakelite]

You think the papacy is an economic and military superpower?
I heard those Swiss guard were good but...

Are not the Jesuits a military order? Do they not have a general? Is not that general the real power behind the Vatican,? Were not the Jesuits the ones to whom were given the task of destroying Protestantism whether they found it? Were not the Jesuits the ones many american presidents feared most to be the agents to destroy America?

Antioch, I've already quoted.

Sorry, must have missed it. Saw Alexandria and Constantinople.
But the church after fleeing Jerusalem went first to Pela then Antioch, and individuals from there continued to share and teach the gospel throughout the world, even as far as India, Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan and China. Also all along the famous silk road through Afghanistan, southern Russia, Mongolia. A long time before the Papacy set foot in any of those lands. And none of those churches had any contact or interest in Rome.
So the theory that Rome was the center of influence sole true authority for Christian thought and practice for 1500 years was nonsense. And I haven't even mentioned all those Christian communities within the reach of the Roman church but who never surrendered to papal authority such as the Waldensian.

 

[Renniks]

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)

Wow, talk about warping scriptures!

"But turning and seeing her, Jesus said, Daughter, be comforted; your faith has saved you. And the woman was saved from that hour."

"And he said to her: Daughter, your faith has saved you; go in peace, and be cured of your plague."


And Jesus said to him: Go, your faith has saved you. And he immediately received his sight, and followed Jesus on the road.


Luk 7:50

Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith [in Me] has saved you; go in peace [free from the distress experienced because of sin].”


Luk 8:48

And he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has saved you. Go in peace."



Luk 17:19

And he said to him, "Get up [and] go your way. Your faith has saved you."


Luk 18:42

And Jesus said to him, "Regain [your] sight! Your faith has saved you."

 

[Renniks]

And as for the ridiculous things you mentioned above - the Catholic Church has NEVER tught that we must walk on nails or flail ourselves or walk on our knees. This is a TEXTBOOK example of why I refer to dishonest people lik YOU as "anti-Catholics" - because you have to LIE to make your points.

I didn't say the Catholics taught it was necessary I said they did such things... It's a matter of fact.

 

[Renniks]

faithful person lives his life for the Lord - and when he stumbles, he aknowledges his offense to God and confesses his sin because he knows he will be forgiven.
It's NOT about living a perfect life or who has done the most works - but if we don't REMAIN faithful, we cannot hope to be saved.

Of course... And this is basic protestant doctrine, that the Faithful must keep the faith. Not that works save him but he must not quit believing. We cannot reject his gift, but we also cannot earn it by works.

 

[Brakelite]

That's because there is NO answer to that question because it's a FALSE premise.
It's not about how many works you do - it's about remaining faithful (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

A faithful person lives his life for the Lord - and when he stumbles, he aknowledges his offense to God and confesses his sin because he knows he will be forgiven.
It's NOT about living a perfect life or who has done the most works - but if we don't REMAIN faithful, we cannot hope to be saved.

And as for the ridiculous things you mentioned above - the Catholic Church has NEVER tught that we must walk on nails or flail ourselves or walk on our knees. This is a TEXTBOOK example of why I refer to dishonest people lik YOU as "anti-Catholics" - because you have to LIE to make your points.

It's interesting. You twist and turn like an eel clutching into a piece of flax. Or am I missing something you are not saying? If you @BreadOfLife had spoken the above words at Luther's trial you would have been thrown out on your ear with Luther. It was while Luther was in his knees climbing 'Pilate's stair case' in Rome, along with numerous others who had been taught such was necessary to purge away sin, that God reminded him that the just shall live by faith. Luther was condemned and excommunicated because he taught what you have above, and may have even used some of the same scriptures to prove it. What am I missing?

 

[Renniks]

In general I agree with you. (surprise)

Scripture does not say that Marymog is the pillar and foundation of truth. It says The Church is. I don't decide what I personally believe to be the Truth when it comes to Scripture interpretation. The Church decides.....Just like Scripture says. I have found that Church. Have you?

Mary

The church isn't a particular sect. Jesus is the truth and the life, not any denomination.

 

[Renniks]

Soooo you don't think The Catholic Church is a cult???

Not really. I think one can be Catholic and saved in spite of some of their false teachings. To me a cult would be a sect that denies Jesus' divinity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't say the Catholics taught it was necessary I said they did such things... It's a matter of fact.

It's a matter of fact that a LOT of ignorant Christians do a LOT of things - but that's completely different from making blanket staements about what Catholics believe about suffering for Christ.

As Paul states in Scripture (Col. 1:24) - we join our sufferings with those of Christ fpor the sake of the Church - but we're NOT supposed to cause them.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Of course... And this is basic protestant doctrine, that the Faithful must keep the faith. Not that works save him but he must not quit believing. We cannot reject his gift, but we also cannot earn it by works.

And once again - YOUR understanding of faith differs from what Scripture says that faith is (James 2:19).
YOU believe that what the Demons have is faith - and I assure you - it's NOT. They have BELIEF - but WE must have FAITH.

Faith is NOT simnply belief. As I have been explaining ad nauseam - it's the WAY you live your life.
Jesus explains this in the Beatitudes (Matt. 5:2-12, Luke 6:20-26) and in the Lesson of the Sheep and Goats (Matt. 25:31-46).

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's interesting. You twist and turn like an eel clutching into a piece of flax. Or am I missing something you are not saying? If you @BreadOfLife had spoken the above words at Luther's trial you would have been thrown out on your ear with Luther. It was while Luther was in his knees climbing 'Pilate's stair case' in Rome, along with numerous others who had been taught such was necessary to purge away sin, that God reminded him that the just shall live by faith. Luther was condemned and excommunicated because he taught what you have above, and may have even used some of the same scriptures to prove it. What am I missing?

You're missing the TRUTH.
The Catholic Church does NOT require anybody to walk on their knees for the forgiveness of sins.

Tell you what: Find this teaching in the Catechism of the Catholic Church - and I will recant what I have stated and apologize.
If you CAN'T find it - then YOU will apologize for lying.

Deal?

 

[Brakelite]

In general I agree with you. (surprise)

Scripture does not say that Marymog is the pillar and foundation of truth. It says The Church is. I don't decide what I personally believe to be the Truth when it comes to Scripture interpretation. The Church decides.....Just like Scripture says. I have found that Church. Have you?

Mary

I may have mentioned this to you before, but when you claim the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (and yes, it's biblical) that is entirely conditional on the church not straying from the source of Truth. The church isn't the source. It's a vessel...a conduit that must at one end cleave to Christ, and at the other not alienate the people. When the church looks elsewhere for its inspiration and power, it then becomes the vessel or conduit for whatever power the church surrenders to. In the case of the Catholic Church, she looked to pagan Rome for her authority and inspiration and thus became a conduit for pagan Roman expression. That's why she followed in pagan Rome's footsteps in persecuting Christians, copying the Roman style of governance, adopting her titles, and mirroring Rome's union of church and state. Your church left Christ in the 6th century. And alienated the people not long after by dividing the laity from the priesthood.
The foundations and pillars then crumbled in the dust.

 

[Brakelite]

You're missing the TRUTH.
The Catholic Church does NOT require anybody to walk on their knees for the forgiveness of sins.

Tell you what: Find this teaching in the Catechism of the Catholic Church - and I will recant what I have stated and apologize.
If you CAN'T find it - then YOU will apologize for lying.

Deal?

Straw man. Stop putting words in my mouth.
I didn't say the church required such activity for forgiveness of sin. I said Catholics were taught that such activity contributed to the purging of sin. Just as doing penance after confession and earning credits for those in purgatory through indulgences. I ain't apologising for nothing.

 

[Marymog]

I may have mentioned this to you before, but when you claim the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (and yes, it's biblical) that is entirely conditional on the church not straying from the source of Truth. The church isn't the source. It's a vessel...a conduit that must at one end cleave to Christ, and at the other not alienate the people. When the church looks elsewhere for its inspiration and power, it then becomes the vessel or conduit for whatever power the church surrenders to. In the case of the Catholic Church, she looked to pagan Rome for her authority and inspiration and thus became a conduit for pagan Roman expression. That's why she followed in pagan Rome's footsteps in persecuting Christians, copying the Roman style of governance, adopting her titles, and mirroring Rome's union of church and state. Your church left Christ in the 6th century. And alienated the people not long after by dividing the laity from the priesthood.
The foundations and pillars then crumbled in the dust.

Ok Backlit. I will momentarily accept your theory that The Church left Christ in the 6th century and it was no longer the pillar and foundation of truth after that.

Sooooo do we erase 1 Timothy 3:15 out of Scripture since there is no longer A Church that is the pilllar and foundation of truth?

Also, I asked you if you have found The Church spoken of in Scripture. You didn’t answer. Why?

 

[Marymog]

If you CAN'T find it - then YOU will apologize for lying.

Deal?

Lol....you know that ain’t gonna happen.....

 

[Marymog]

Not really. I think one can be Catholic and saved in spite of some of their false teachings. To me a cult would be a sect that denies Jesus' divinity.

Thank you for your response. I agree with you....That is one identifier of a cult.

Since you have decided that The Church has false teachings I am curious: What other churches (denominations) have false teachings? Who taught you what a false teaching is? Or are you self taught?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

The church isn't a particular sect. Jesus is the truth and the life, not any denomination.

Well, once again we agree (surprise). Jesus is the truth! Everything he taught was the Truth.

Sooooo when your interpretation of His Words lead you to your truth which is different than someone else’s truth......Which one of you is right? Luthers truth was different than the CC truth. Which one of them was right?

Can you see how your theory is not well thought out?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Now that is one of the great myths perpetuated by Rome to sustain the idea she was the only shop in town.

Ummmmm......The Church has never suggested that it was the only shop in town. They have been fighting heretical teachings from other shops in town since the 1st century. The epistles were written to give directions to NT Christians and fight heretical teachings by men who were trying to set up heretical shops in town. A large portion of the writings and official announcements/writings s from the men of The Church Were to fight heretical teachings from men who tried to set up heretical shops in town. In 107AD Ignatius first called The Church “Catholic” and he eluded to other shops in town that had been set up by False teachers.

Sooooo your bizarre statement that The Church wanted to “sustain the idea (that) she was the only shop in town” is ludicrous and void of facts. It was POINTING OUT the heretical shops in town and you probably wouldn’t even know about them if it wasn’t for The Church writing dissertations to expose them and their heretical teachings.

Goodness...you are wearing me out....

Mary

 

[Brakelite]

Ummmmm......The Church has never suggested that it was the only shop in town. They have been fighting heretical teachings from other shops in town since the 1st century. The epistles were written to give directions to NT Christians and fight heretical teachings by men who were trying to set up heretical shops in town. A large portion of the writings and official announcements/writings s from the men of The Church Were to fight heretical teachings from men who tried to set up heretical shops in town. In 107AD Ignatius first called The Church “Catholic” and he eluded to other shops in town that had been set up by False teachers.

Sooooo your bizarre statement that The Church wanted to “sustain the idea (that) she was the only shop in town” is ludicrous and void of facts. It was POINTING OUT the heretical shops in town and you probably wouldn’t even know about them if it wasn’t for The Church writing dissertations to expose them and their heretical teachings.

Goodness...you are wearing me out....

Mary

Lol. Okay.