Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?

[Hidden In Him]

Then I was mistaken about the meaning of the word gnostic. Yes, I do believe in the true God and the imposter and this is why the true God revealed himself to the Jews.
.

Ok. Well I'm not being mean-spirited when I say this, but Gnosticism was regarded by the early church as rank heresy, and they fought against it vigorously for the first two centuries after Christ's death as an imposter to the true Christian faith.

What brought you to the place where you adopted the idea that the God of the Old Testament was evil? Thanks for sharing, btw.

 

[Cooper]

Ok. Well I'm not being mean-spirited when I say this, but Gnosticism was regarded by the early church as rank heresy, and they fought against it vigorously for the first two centuries after Christ's death as an imposter to the true Christian faith.

What brought you to the place where you adopted the idea that the God of the Old Testament was evil? Thanks for sharing, btw.

While the Israelites were sacrificing to their god, the true God was saying : -

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (Deu 12:31 KJV)

Isaiah 1:11 NKJV "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats.

1 Samuel 15:22 NKJV So Samuel said: "Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed, is than the fat of rams.

Psa 40:5-6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.

The true God requires that we make a sacrifice of our heart.

 

[Rita]

I, too, have struggled to reconcile God's self-expression between the OT & NT. God basically ordered Israel to commit genocide against the Caanites and anyone else in the "Holy Land" after they came out of Egypt. What kind of God would do that. Also, the celebration of 'bashing babies heads against rocks' does not always seem appropriate in the Bible. However, I recognize that I do not understand all things the way God understands. So, God may be the same "yesterday, today and forever" and it it merely my lack of understanding that gets in the way of seeing that.

I could have written the same response Matt, what I find difficult is when my non believing son has the same issue. He doesn’t have the faith to trust that God understands even though I don’t. He doesn’t have the inner relationship , all he sees are the facts written down. He definitely sees a difference between OT and NT
Rita

 

[Rita]

Exactly. And that's one take away as far as application to our daily lives. There is a significant portion of the church that became given over to pursuing earthly rewards after the prosperity message took hold back in the 70s. They reversed the mindset in many, turning them back towards seeking earthly treasures rather than spiritual ones, and this can't help but turn people more carnal in their desires and mentality.

It also fogs the line when it comes to the Christian witness. The sinner can no longer delineate spirituality from carnality in our message, though many sense they can smell a rat, LoL.

The prosperity Christianity wasn’t really around me when I came to faith in the early 80’s , and I was part of a church that rejected the openness to The Holy Spirit. The carnality that I saw was linked more to ‘ rules ‘ and ‘ judgments ‘ it was all about what you did and not about who you are in Christ. The hatred I saw towards anyone that didn’t fit their mould, but as far as they were concerned they were merely rejecting in a Godly way. Many sit in judgement of others while ignoring their own sin, and that is a what I see creating barriers between the people we are meant to be reaching and Christ himself. The outside world sees hypocrisy.
Carnality can creep in in different ways, but I do wonder if our emotional responses to people and situations are part of that as well. Are we responding in the vain of our old natures when we allow those emotions to dictate to people and things that don’t fit what we believe is right.
Don’t get me wrong, there is a place for Godly anger and dealing with thing directly at times, but do we allow for direction to come from the Holy Spirit, or just simply respond without any consideration and then justify it.
Just pondering the whole subject at the moment.
I do see different approaches from the apostles in their letters and throughout acts , compared to how leaders acted in the OT, however within the churches themselves in the NT times there were often issues that needed addressing. We know that the Apostles were led by the Holy Spirit. To me, they seemed less Carnal and more spiritual.
Sorry, still considering the whole subject xx
Rita

 

[Taken]

Essentially I agree with you, yes. Certainly that the gospel would be opened up to the Gentiles and the sacrifices become superfluous was what Paul called "a mystery hidden in God," and yet it was being revealed by the church during his time. So yes, I think revelation of who the God of the Old Testament truly is was hidden from men until the time of the New Testament. I would also agree that his revelation is progressive, and there is still much to be revealed regarding His ultimate plans for His body in the earth (though some would disagree with me there).

God bless, and thanks for the response.

From the beginning-
God offered- God warned-
Adam, a full grown man, with a child-like MIND, was warned- LIKE a Child- Dictated, Don't do THAT, or ELSE THIS will happen.

THAT has not changed- Because Children, with a Child's Mind, continue to be born.
So in that Respect- Yes Progress continues.

Another thing that Continues from the beginning - IS REBELLION.
Adults and Children Progressively Continue to Rebel.

There is another PROGRESSION- regarding men "IN" Christ. (The Converted).
Their "Progressive" ADVANTAGE...
is the access to "the ease";
of Literacy, of Preachers, of Owning a Personal Bible, ability to verify a Preachers Preaching, of reading on their own...
AND
24-7 Access to Praying (asking), Christ the Lord for God Understanding OF His Word.

Observing: The PROGRESSION, is KEY.
Listening TO ...
WHO and WHAT is Promoting...progress...
ACCORDING TO: GOD
or
ACCORDING TO: men

•We HEAR AND Observe "ungodly men" and "secular men" promote PROGRESSIVISM...
•We HEAR their "INTENDED" Result. (Partially)
•Global Scale...
"They" are going to "SAVE the Earth"
Their BIG picture IS:
...People are the CAUSE of the Earths Decay.
...too many People
...Down size People
...Hault the Use of Gods given ASSETS ...
the Earth's, coal, oil, minerals, fertile reproductive seeds, and now the mixing humans with internal electronics and Sun blocking measures experiments...
...They HAVE and ARE progressing with lightening speed...Expousing and Plotting "their" ungodly/ secular "PROGRESS", in a REBELLION AGAINST God and His Provisions He GAVE all of mankind.
... THEY have "decided", THEY are the worthy to HAVE Earthly Assets...and ARE "picking and Deciding and Supporting"... how to systematically...REDUCE the "unworthy population".
...FEAR CRISIS tactics, (pseudo Emergences) PROPAGANDA (media 24-7), Abortions, Wars, Corrupt food sources (orchestrated famines), Drugs, (Control methods), Electronics (Monitering and Control methods), Disrupting Travel, Gathering, Jobs, GODLY Church Services, Prison encampments (Separations of People)....and ON and ON...
• A Full Blast Global and Atomosphereic ASSULT by ungodly PROGRESSIVE men.
• A "Partial" Blast by PROGRESSIVE Godly men, IN Christ.
Exactly as Scripture Foretells...
A clash between Good and Evil Spirits;
Few will be standing with Good.
Many will be standing with Evil.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I could have written the same response Matt, what I find difficult is when my non believing son has the same issue. He doesn’t have the faith to trust that God understands even though I don’t. He doesn’t have the inner relationship , all he sees are the facts written down. He definitely sees a difference between OT and NT
Rita

Its NOT so much "focus" about old and new testaments...to make an argumentative point.
Sort of like trying to argue over the Introductory...To Reading "Dick and Jane" Books and "12th Grade English Books"...of which one to believe.

I would suggest perhaps a Gift to your son,
a book (that is rather small, easy read) and later made into a movie...both Titled:
"A Case For Christ"...

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Thanks for that reminder . We want no part of that .

@ WaterSong

Who is S. Michael Houdmann?
"Gotquestions"

A brief bio of the man who started the web-site "gotquestions" and why.
No mention of any intended "denomination", but is Geared toward a Protestants perspective per Scripture.

 

[Hidden In Him]

While the Israelites were sacrificing to their god, the true God was saying : -

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (Deu 12:31 KJV)

Isaiah 1:11 NKJV "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats.

1 Samuel 15:22 NKJV So Samuel said: "Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed, is than the fat of rams.

Psa 40:5-6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.

The true God requires that we make a sacrifice of our heart.

What you seem to be separating out of the equation, however, is that the God who was saying all these things is the same God who instituted these sacrifices to begin with, and commanded the Israelites to observe them. The reason He was displeased was because of their abuses of these things, not because of the practices themselves.

If the true God considered the Jews enemies, what do you make of Paul's words in Romans?

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew... 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. (Romans 11:1-2, 25-28).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

My apologies! I'll put you on the list for all future threads : )


Ok, agreed. Now, how do you believe the above demonstrates that He had/has two different characters?

Two different aspects of the one character.

Remember Israel was governed buy God as a nation in a land. The church is a people without a nation and land so the way we are governed as a collective (like the nation of Israel) would naturally be different. We cannot be invaded and taken out of our land if we fall into idolatry.

We cannot be stricken with plagues if we sin etc.etc.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Carnality can creep in in different ways, but I do wonder if our emotional responses to people and situations are part of that as well. Are we responding in the vain of our old natures when we allow those emotions to dictate to people and things that don’t fit what we believe is right.
Don’t get me wrong, there is a place for Godly anger and dealing with thing directly at times, but do we allow for direction to come from the Holy Spirit, or just simply respond without any consideration and then justify it.
Just pondering the whole subject at the moment.

This is true. Joy is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and thus something we should walk in as believers, as are Love and Peace. The problem is, God saves all kinds, and many who come to Him with deep hurts, fears, anxieties, social hang ups, etc. that aren't exactly healed over night. And the more they are still given to negative emotions, the more they will be effected by the negative treatment they receive from others, and/or those who disagree with them.

The best policy is to focus on fixing ourselves while praying for those who need fixing. The healing of the soul and the renewing of the mind take time, and we are all still a work in progress.

I do see different approaches from the apostles in their letters and throughout acts , compared to how leaders acted in the OT, however within the churches themselves in the NT times there were often issues that needed addressing. We know that the Apostles were led by the Holy Spirit. To me, they seemed less Carnal and more spiritual.
Sorry, still considering the whole subject xx
Rita

That's because they were, LoL.

 

[WaterSong]

I'm on the road phoning this in so I can't be long winded as usual. However , we may remember the Jews were Polytheists first due to Babylonian captivity. Could be why Paul spoke about idolatry.

 

[Hidden In Him]

From the beginning-
God offered- God warned-
Adam, a full grown man, with a child-like MIND, was warned- LIKE a Child- Dictated, Don't do THAT, or ELSE THIS will happen.

THAT has not changed- Because Children, with a Child's Mind, continue to be born.
So in that Respect- Yes Progress continues.

Another thing that Continues from the beginning - IS REBELLION.
Adults and Children Progressively Continue to Rebel.

There is another PROGRESSION- regarding men "IN" Christ. (The Converted).
Their "Progressive" ADVANTAGE...
is the access to "the ease";
of Literacy, of Preachers, of Owning a Personal Bible, ability to verify a Preachers Preaching, of reading on their own...
AND
24-7 Access to Praying (asking), Christ the Lord for God Understanding OF His Word.

Observing: The PROGRESSION, is KEY.
Listening TO ...
WHO and WHAT is Promoting...progress...
ACCORDING TO: GOD
or
ACCORDING TO: men

•We HEAR AND Observe "ungodly men" and "secular men" promote PROGRESSIVISM...
•We HEAR their "INTENDED" Result. (Partially)
•Global Scale...
"They" are going to "SAVE the Earth"
Their BIG picture IS:
...People are the CAUSE of the Earths Decay.
...too many People
...Down size People
...Hault the Use of Gods given ASSETS ...
the Earth's, coal, oil, minerals, fertile reproductive seeds, and now the mixing humans with internal electronics and Sun blocking measures experiments...
...They HAVE and ARE progressing with lightening speed...Expousing and Plotting "their" ungodly/ secular "PROGRESS", in a REBELLION AGAINST God and His Provisions He GAVE all of mankind.
... THEY have "decided", THEY are the worthy to HAVE Earthly Assets...and ARE "picking and Deciding and Supporting"... how to systematically...REDUCE the "unworthy population".
...FEAR CRISIS tactics, (pseudo Emergences) PROPAGANDA (media 24-7), Abortions, Wars, Corrupt food sources (orchestrated famines), Drugs, (Control methods), Electronics (Monitering and Control methods), Disrupting Travel, Gathering, Jobs, GODLY Church Services, Prison encampments (Separations of People)....and ON and ON...
• A Full Blast Global and Atomosphereic ASSULT by ungodly PROGRESSIVE men.
• A "Partial" Blast by PROGRESSIVE Godly men, IN Christ.
Exactly as Scripture Foretells...
A clash between Good and Evil Spirits;
Few will be standing with Good.
Many will be standing with Evil.

Glory to God,
Taken

Well yes, LoL. It's actually spiritual Regression you are referring to, and the church did indeed regress after New Testament times. Now what we want to have our eyes on, however, is the hope that she will eventually return to what she was in NT times and even more. I personally don't expect this to happen in my lifetime - I think she will tank for the next 20 years at least - but the day is coming when the Lord will clean house, bring judgment upon the present church, and then finally rebuild her according to the original design.

Is this something you believe as well?

God bless, and thanks for the responses, Taken.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Your response implies that the ends justify the means. It's ok to commit genocide if the other nation is going to go to war with you, or it's ok to commit genocide if you believe God has promised you another people's land? Not the reasoning I believe God is following, IMO. More likely, God did not order this but it came from the minds of the Hebrews and was written as 'God's will'.

Well, I don't want to disillusion you in anyway towards God - not in the least - but I would have to point out here that God did in fact order such things.

The reasoning, as I stated elsewhere, is that the pagan peoples might have corrupted Israel spiritually if allowed to live (v.4):

1 When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

What has to be remembered, Matt, is that the Living God had to preserve the race of people He chose through whom the Messiah would be born, according to prophecy. If the Israelites had been corrupted and then destroyed by God, the Savior of mankind would not have been born, and then there would have been no hope for any of us.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Two different aspects of the one character.

Remember Israel was governed by God as a nation in a land. The church is a people without a nation and land so the way we are governed as a collective (like the nation of Israel) would naturally be different. We cannot be invaded and taken out of our land if we fall into idolatry.

We cannot be stricken with plagues if we sin etc.etc.

Had to go back and find your original statement:

"Remember Israel is a covenanted nation belonging to god for all time. The church is a non nation nation that belongs to jesus! In the Millenial Kingdom Israel will have a sacrificial system again in the temple and the gentile nations will come once a year with an offering to Jerusalem or face no rain for the year!."

I understand Him as dealing with two different sets of people, as stated before (Spiritual Israel vs. Carnal Israel). But I was questioning if it would be right to say He was exhibiting two different characters.

 

[charity]

I, too, have struggled to reconcile God's self-expression between the OT & NT. God basically ordered Israel to commit genocide against the Caanites and anyone else in the "Holy Land" after they came out of Egypt. What kind of God would do that. Also, the celebration of 'bashing babies heads against rocks' does not always seem appropriate in the Bible. However, I recognize that I do not understand all things the way God understands. So, God may be the same "yesterday, today and forever" and it it merely my lack of understanding that gets in the way of seeing that.

Hello @MattMooradian,

God is a Holy God, Righteous and yet Just. He is able to justify those who come to Him for salvation ONLY on the basis of the blood shed by His only Begotten Son, who Himself was without sin, so could take upon Himself the sins of the whole world and die in the place of all who would believe and trust in His redeeming blood to save them.

Outside of Christ, there is God - Who cannot and will not tolerate sin; only the sacrifice of Christ could atone for that sin. It was no small thing that could make the reconciliation of mankind a possibility. Outside of Christ there is judgement and death, only in Christ is there life and peace. The unbelieving will be judged according to God's righteousness, by Christ as His appointed judge (Acts 17:31).

God has not changed. He was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Providing the means whereby all may be saved, through faith in Christ's redeeming work, before the day of wrath comes.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Cooper]

What you seem to be separating out of the equation, however, is that the God who was saying all these things is the same God who instituted these sacrifices to begin with, and commanded the Israelites to observe them. The reason He was displeased was because of their abuses of these things, not because of the practices themselves.

If the true God considered the Jews enemies, what do you make of Paul's words in Romans?

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew... 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. (Romans 11:1-2, 25-28).

Sigh. Which LORD are you talking about.

Exo 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

Exo 32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.

Exo 32:3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

Exo 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

Exo 32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

Exo 32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

Exo 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm on the road phoning this in so I can't be long winded as usual. However, we may remember the Jews were Polytheists first due to Babylonian captivity. Could be why Paul spoke about idolatry.

Greetings, Watersong!

If this post was addressed to me (not sure if it was or not), the problem with this argument is among other things that Paul was referencing when they came out of Egypt when he mentions their idolatry specifically (v.7), which was roughly a thousand years before the Babylonian captivity.

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Now, the argument could be made that they came out of Egypt as polytheists because they quickly turned to worshiping the Golden Calf. But the thing to keep in mind there is that all the Israelites who worshipped pagan gods in the wilderness snuffed it, i.e. were destroyed by God, yet they were destroyed as those who were formerly God's people. This is the driving point in Paul's discourse in 1 Corinthians 10; that if He destroyed those who belonged to Him in OT times then He could destroy his readers as well, so they would do well not to give themselves to the same sins or they could die for the same reasons.

The same point (that judgement and destruction came to those who formerly belonged to God) is made in Jude and 2 Peter:

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:3-6)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sigh. Which LORD are you talking about.

Exo 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

Exo 32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.

Exo 32:3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

Exo 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

Exo 32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

Exo 32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

Exo 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

NOT the Golden Calf, LoL.

The Golden Calf did not institute the sacrifices you were referring to. The God of Israel did.

 

[Cooper]

NOT the Golden Calf, LoL.

The Golden Calf did not institute the sacrifices you were referring to. The God of Israel did.

Do you not understand there are two LORD'S in the Bible? One of them is Baal or the Devil.

The pre-incarnate Jesus, the true God is unchanging. He will not take the little children on his knee in the New Testament and slaughter them in the Old Testament. So if you read of the LORD doing something Jesus would not do, you know it is the opposer.
.

 

[charity]

Hi Charity.

Strangely enough, there's not a word in the above that I disagree with, so you might need to redress it again, and this time pinpoint for me more clearly where my post states something in specific that you find objectionable.

Hi @Hidden In Him,

The post I was responding to was as follows:-

Hidden In Him said in reply #34!
Here is the classic argument!

Now, my response to this is that He never changed but was speaking to two different classes of people. That you might say is supposition, but in light of the rest of Christ's teachings, it becomes clear that He was speaking to carnal Israel in the Old Testament and spiritual Israel in the New. This is evident in that His promises to natural Israel regarded an earthly inheritance (Deuteronomy 28), whereas His promises to spiritual Israel regarded a Heavenly one (Matthew 5:11-12, Matthew 6:19-21).

What would you say to that argument?

* I do not believe that God's suggested difference of approach to mankind in the New Testament to that in the Old Testament is because He was speaking to two different classes of people. He was speaking to Israel in the Old Testament and to Israel way up through the Gospels and throughout the Acts period,until their final rejection of Christ.

* Israel does have an earthly inheritance which is to be experienced in the land, and in the blessings of 'basket and store': but that had not changed in the New Testament, in that the preaching of John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ and the Twelve sounded out the same gospel, 'Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand'. Only when Israel failed to repent was salvation sent to the Gentiles, independent of Israel, and the revelation of God made to Paul regarding the Church which is His (Christ's) Body given, which was designed to heal the rupture occasioned by that final rejection, and bring healing. This was made known by Paul from prison in the epistles to Ephesus, Philippi, Colossi and to Timothy, Titus and Philemon, though that latter was of a more personal nature.

* I hope this gives the clarity you require. You have been so busy answering all your responders that it not surprising that you needed clarification.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris