Pseudo Messiah

[TexUs]

No matter how hard some of you try, you'll never get rid of God's Word declaring the coming of a specific false one in the last days to work miracles to deceive with, and that will command all to worship him in place of Christ Jesus...

I won't argue with that, just don't call it "The Antichrist"- it's horribly inaccurate. You may call it "an antichrist" if you wish.

Incorrect terminology about such things has farther reach and grasp than what it may seem on the surface.

Incorrect terminology regarding Heaven has been repeated so much over and over and over that people nowadays have false perceptions about it- and there's no difference here in regards to the antichrists.

 

[veteran]

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I won't argue with that, just don't call it "The Antichrist"- it's horribly inaccurate. You may call it "an antichrist" if you wish.

Incorrect terminology about such things has farther reach and grasp than what it may seem on the surface.

Incorrect terminology regarding Heaven has been repeated so much over and over and over that people nowadays have false perceptions about it- and there's no difference here in regards to the antichrists.

I Jn 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
(KJV)

That first phrase by Apostle John is a singular antichrist. So 'the antichrist' is very appropriate per the Scripture, and especially by all the other Bible prophecy given about that particular false one. That's why those in the early Church ALSO declared the coming of 'the antichrist', simply because of prophecy in God's Word.

The idea that it only means 'antichrists' plural is incorrect terminology.

The Preterist school can do all they want to 'try' and make it mean only a plurality of antichrists, but doing that only shows their ignorance of the subject covered in many other Scriptures, especially those of Christ's in Matt.24 and Mark 13, and in Revelation 13:11 forward, and in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 about a specific pseudo messiah working wonders and great signs on the earth.

 

[veteran]

You have the correct Strong's word, and Strong's often gives the singular form of a noun but in the Greek text the word "ψευδοχριστοι G5580 N-NPM" is used and it is the plural form. Verse 15 has your singular entity, the abomination of desolation, (the desolator).

pseudoChristoi, right; which Strong's translates as 'a spurious Messiah' in the singular tense, because of...


...the tense of the following verses our Lord gave with that...

Matt 24:23
23 Then if any man (tis - 5100) shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ (Christos - 5547), or there"; believe it not.
(KJV)

Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he (estin - 2076) is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
(KJV)

The Matt.24:23 through 26 Scripture is about a singular entity the deceived will proclaim as Christ.


But with the earlier verse like the following...

Matt 24:5
5 For many shall come in My name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
(KJV)

That 5th verse is about many that would come claiming to be Christ (like the "many antichrists"). But that earlier verse stands in contrast to the later Matt.24:23-26 specific antichrist false messiah and false prophet. That latter warning of a specific false messiah is also given in Revelation 13, 2 Thess.2, 2 Cor.11, and Daniel 11.

Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(KJV)

Rev 13:13-14
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
(KJV)

II Th 2:9
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(KJV)

 

[TexUs]

I Jn 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
(KJV)

That first phrase by Apostle John is a singular antichrist. So 'the antichrist' is very appropriate per the Scripture

Even though that which you just quoted does't even say "THE Antichrist", LOL...
It says antichrist will come.


Now, will there be a "big" antichrist? Yes... Satan.

Are there still MANY antichrists? Yes.

You can't let scripture contradict itself. Scripture defines it as someone anti-Christ and anti-Father (1 John 2:22). You cannot throw this definition out the window simply because it disagrees with your theory of a special antichrist.

There have been, there are, and there will be, MANY antichrists- according to Scripture's definition. You can't ignore that.

 

[veteran]

Even though that which you just quoted does't even say "THE Antichrist", LOL...
It says antichrist will come.


Now, will there be a "big" antichrist? Yes... Satan.

Are there still MANY antichrists? Yes.

You can't let scripture contradict itself. Scripture defines it as someone anti-Christ and anti-Father (1 John 2:22). You cannot throw this definition out the window simply because it disagrees with your theory of a special antichrist.

There have been, there are, and there will be, MANY antichrists- according to Scripture's definition. You can't ignore that.

Problem is, I never have ignored the "many antichrists" phrase John included in his statement.

It's those who ignore the "antichrist" John gave in the singular tense in that same verse, along with the Scripture like Matt.24:23-26 where our Lord was also pointing to a singular antichrist, as also with Paul in 2 Thess.2 and in 2 Cor.11 with the "another Jesus", and in Rev.13 with the "another beast" which is singular.

Like I said before, those who TRY to disprove God's Word speaking about a singular false Christ coming in the last days to work wonders and miracles on the earth to deceive will never succeed using the Scripture, for all one has to do is read God's Word for theirself. That particular false Christ or pseudo messiah, is to be unlike any other that came before. The antichrist John was speaking of will actually do wonders and miracles on earth so powerful in deception that if possible, it would deceive Christ's own elect. That's a major revealing by our Lord of how different in scope and power that false messiah will be in contrast to false prophets of our day that can only claim... to be Christ.


[/font]

 

[TexUs]

Many ice cream men have come, son, the ice cream man will still come tomorrow.


Does this mean there's only "one" or even "special" ice cream man to come? No........

Like I said before, those who TRY to disprove God's Word speaking about a singular false Christ coming in the last days to work wonders and miracles on the earth to deceive will never succeed using the Scripture

Neither will the ones trying to prove it.


The fact is, the beast, and any end-times stuff in Revelation for that matter, isn't linked as the singular coming AntiChrist.
Sorry, you can whine and cry and pout that God didn't say so, but it doesn't say so.






Do I believe the beast will be the most powerful and influential antichrist? Yes, but he's one among many antichrists.
After I think about it, I don't even have a problem with you calling him a "special antichrist" for that reason.


The problem I have is you limiting the future antichrists to "the", a singular one.
If I can find one person that exists today that meets the Bible's definition of antichrist, then you're wrong. I can find billions.

 

[tomwebster]

...The problem I have is you limiting the future antichrists to "the", a singular one. If I can find one person that exists today that meets the Bible's definition of antichrist, then you're wrong. I can find billions.

And YOU will be one of many that don't see him when he is here. You are worshipping him all ready. We'll see how that works out for you.

 

[TexUs]

And YOU will be one of many that don't see him when he is here. You are worshipping him all ready. We'll see how that works out for you.

Ahhh, yes... Woe is me for being able to read Biblical definitions

 

[tomwebster]

Ahhh, yes... Woe is me for being able to read Biblical definitions

I’m looking forward to when that grin is wiped of your face!

 

[veteran]

Many ice cream men have come, son, the ice cream man will still come tomorrow.

Does this mean there's only "one" or even "special" ice cream man to come? No........

Neither will the ones trying to prove it.

The fact is, the beast, and any end-times stuff in Revelation for that matter, isn't linked as the singular coming AntiChrist.
Sorry, you can whine and cry and pout that God didn't say so, but it doesn't say so.

Do I believe the beast will be the most powerful and influential antichrist? Yes, but he's one among many antichrists.
After I think about it, I don't even have a problem with you calling him a "special antichrist" for that reason.

The problem I have is you limiting the future antichrists to "the", a singular one.
If I can find one person that exists today that meets the Bible's definition of antichrist, then you're wrong. I can find billions.

You're being rebellious against the Scripture in order to serve a tradition of man that says there is no specific antichrist coming to work greats signs and wonders on the earth to deceive with. Whereas, I never denied the Scripture by John that declares both a singular antichrist, and the also the idea of many antichrists. But even the first "antichrist" phrase John declared is in singular tense.

Paul did the same singular tense declaration in 2 Thess.2 about a specific false one coming to sit in the temple of God, while also... declaring the "mystery of iniquity" (i.e., many antichrists), was already at work.. Yet he separated the time of the coming of that one that is to sit in the temple of God from the time of that mystery of iniquity working, for HE CLEARLY SHOWED THAT ONE COMING TO SIT IN THE TEMPLE WAS YET TO COME IN HIS DAYS.

Moreover, what Christ declared through John in Revelation 13 by vision of the "another beast" entity, that one also is given in the singular tense doing the same wonders and miracles that He showed in Matt.24:24 and by Paul in 2 Thess.2. Paul also covered the matter of a singular "another Jesus" in 2 Cor.11, so those who want to deny a singular antichrist above all others is without excuse.

 

[TexUs]

So you believe there is only ONE AntiChrist to come, correct?

 

[veteran]

So you believe there is only ONE AntiChrist to come, correct?

So now you're going to try and close off the rest of God's Word in favour of using that word "antichrist" as a thread to dangle from? That shows all the more how weak your position is.

The doctrine of man you're holding onto tries to deny the coming of a specific false messiah that will work wonders on earth that no man has ever done.

Why don't you do what others on that doctrine do with pitching a fit because of how those like myself apply the other titles in God's Word for the coming of a specific singular antichrist, like the "another Jesus", "that Wicked", the "man of sin", the "another beast", the "dragon", the "vile person", "the angel of the bottomless pit", "that old serpent", etc.

It's always easy to recognize doctrines of men, because they always leave the majority of God's Word behind in favour of following their own tradition.


Understanding per God's Word who the antichrist is very... easy. It's the devil himself. That's WHY John, our Lord Jesus, Paul, Daniel, all specifically pointed to the ultimate evil working of Satan with those descriptions about the coming antichrist in the last days. Christ was most specific with even spelling it out for us in His Book of Revelation He gave us through His servant John.

Clearly Satan does not want everyone understanding that he is the main antichrist that is to come, otherwise he wouldn't have anyone to deceive when he comes in our near future as the "another Jesus". Yet God's elect already know Satan is the antichrist that is to come in the last days. That's why there's a major difference with what John declared that a specific antichrist would come vs. the many antichrists that are already here.

Apostle Paul declared the same idea in 2 Thess.2 when he said the mystery of iniquity was already at work. But the "son of perdition", the "man of sin", and "that Wicked", which are all titles for Satan himself, had not come yet. The temple Paul said he will come to sit in to play God is about the future Jerusalem temple the orthodox deceived Jews plan to build in our near future.

So who are those actually behind the strategy to get us to deny that Satan is that specific antichrist and false messiah is coming to this earth to work great signs and wonders on earth to deceive the whole world with? Well, it's Satan's servants on earth of course. They're the ones who came up with the doctrine that the word "antichrist" can't mean a singular antichrist, i.e., the devil himself.

 

[tomwebster]

So you believe there is only ONE AntiChrist to come, correct?

Yes, their is only one THE ANTICHRIST! Their are many that play the role and are types, some right here on this forum. But their is only one THE ANTICHRIST.

 

[TexUs]

Veteran the simple fact you can't answer a simple yes/no question without multiple paragraphs (Which I won't read) is evidence enough for me of either backpedaling or justification of the inability to answer straight forward.

Yes, their is only one THE ANTICHRIST! Their are many that play the role and are types, some right here on this forum. But their is only one THE ANTICHRIST.

You do realize that "THE" is a singular word, don't you?

There can't be MANY Antichrists to come and there be "THE" Antichrist.
Either it's one or many, make up your mind.

 

[tomwebster]

....

You do realize that "THE" is a singular word, don't you?

There can't be MANY Antichrists to come and there be "THE" Antichrist.
Either it's one or many, make up your mind.

No, you try to use yours! There are many antichrists but only one THE ANTICHRIST! Now you might not be able to figure that out but others can. THE ANTICHRIST is a particular one out of the many.

 

[TexUs]

No, you try to use yours! There are many antichrist's but only one THE ANTICHRIST! Now you might not be able to figure that out but others can. THE ANTICHRIST is a particular one out of the many.

Did you miss elementary school grammar? I seem to recall being taught the difference between singular and plural usage in 4th grade.

 

[tomwebster]

Did you miss elementary school grammar? I seem to recall being taught the difference between singular and plural usage in 4th grade.

Yes! Do you know the difference between singular and plural nouns in Greek!

1Jn 2:18 παιδια εσχατη ωρα εστιν και καθως ηκουσατε οτι ο (G3588 T-NSM) αντιχριστος (G500 N-NSM) ερχεται και νυν (G3568 ADV) αντιχριστοι (G500 N-NPM) πολλοι γεγονασιν οθεν γινωσκομεν οτι εσχατη ωρα εστιν

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist (THIS WORD IS SINGULAR) shall come, even now are there many antichrists (THIS WORD IS PLURAL); whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

[TexUs]

"THE ANTICHRIST".

The object there is singular. Now that in itself doesn't limit it to one, however... The word "the" does. "THE" (specific) "ANTICHRIST" (one).

You cannot believe "THE ANTICHRIST" and believe there will be many antichrists.


Now, the way I see it.

You can either admit adding the word "THE" is unBiblical and you are going beyond what is written and adding to God's Word...
Or you can admit there will be multiple Antichrists.

Which is it?

 

[tomwebster]

"THE ANTICHRIST".

The object there is singular. Now that in itself doesn't limit it to one, however... The word "the" does. "THE" (specific) "ANTICHRIST" (one).

You cannot believe "THE ANTICHRIST" and believe there will be many antichrists.


Now, the way I see it.

You can either admit adding the word "THE" is unBiblical and you are going beyond what is written and adding to God's Word...
Or you can admit there will be multiple Antichrists.

Which is it?

BOTH! There are many fathers (plural) on this board, I am the father (singular) from this board that lives in Crystal, MN. The Scripture says there are many antichrists and there is one of them that is THE ANTICHRIST. The antichrist is a particular one of the many.

 

[TexUs]

But would you say, "THE FATHER" will kill his children? Which father? Only one father will ever kill his children?
It makes absolute no logical or grammatical sense taken literally like you want to take it.


But OK. I think you're taking it more symbolically than you're letting on.


So you'd say there are many antichrists.
But anytime you say "the antichrist" you are referring to the beast, is that right?