Your Thoughts: 1 Thessalonians 1:2-4

[Brakelite]

I would agree with this, Charity, only I would widen the scope of "calling" to their individual callings in Christ as believers as well. Ultimately when we are selected out by God, He has a purpose in mind for every one of us. Our Job is to find out what that calling and ministry is, and walk in it.

Sometimes I think we overthink our "calling". We study ourselves and take a poll and ask questions... What are my gifts... What are my talents... Thing is I see no evidence of any of that in scripture.
I think if we are walking in faith... Being led of the spirit, we tend to just fall into our niche. If we overthink and start making our own decisions we may well deceive ourselves into thinking more of ourselves than we ought. Remember Jesus saying when we go to a feast sit at the bottom of the table? Then let the Master invite you up. I'm reminded of Micah's counsel... Seek mercy, do justly, and walk humbly with your God. So long as we constantly do our best with what we have, God will provide us with all we need for those times when we step into the unknown. Taking the courage to take those steps in faith, trusting God's providence, is where we will find our calling.

 

[Brakelite]

@Backlit
@Hidden In Him

Hello there,

I quote my post (above) because it was referred to by 'Backlit'.

In Ephesians, I believe that the 'choosing' of God, which took place before the foundation of the world, was not to salvation itself, but to 'the calling' that was being revealed to them in that Epistle, and the other epistles written by Paul, from prison at that time. Which was to the church which is His (Christ's) body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all. The calling which would heal the rent caused by the departure of Israel into the blindness of unbelief at Acts 28, and draw them together, both Jew and Gentile believer into one united and equal body, with Christ as their Head.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

When people say, "it's a finished work", I often wonder what it is they think is finished, and how the unfinished business that will continue until Christ comes affects us.

 

[charity]

When people say, "it's a finished work", I often wonder what it is they think is finished, and how the unfinished business that will continue until Christ comes affects us.

Hello @Backlit,

When I think of the finished work of Christ, the first chapter of Ephesians comes to my mind, where everything that has been accomplished for us is spoken of in the past tense. It has been done. We are indeed 'complete' in Christ (Colossians 2:10). This refers to our 'Standing' before God in the Spirit, that is not influenced by our present state in the flesh, which is a work in progress.

We are His workmanship.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The standard question I have been asking in this regard is, suppose the following scenario: You know a Christian who exhibits all the signs of being saved; he prays, he witnesses, he reads scripture, goes to church, and even has a successful ministry. Then one day you find out that he has come to the conclusion his faith is a lie, and he is no longer a Christian; he has denounced his faith. Would you consider such a person to have truly been chosen by God still, or would you think that maybe you simply assumed he was when he was not.

I don't know if I answered this already or not. But anyway, it doesn't matter if he was ever really saved or not. He's going to hell and he needs to get it right with God. Whether or not he was ever saved to begin with does not change the fact that's he going to hell. That's the part we need to give our attention to—the fact that he is demonstrating that he is unsaved and will go to hell if he dies that way.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, incessantly remembering your work of faith, and labor of love, and endurance of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, knowing brothers that you have been chosen, in having been beloved by God. (1 Thessalonians 1:2-4)

Greetings in Christ Jesus! These threads are intended as interactive Bible Studies to get people thinking about verses and passages of scripture. So the questions I will ask are designed to get people thinking about what is actually being said in them. Anyone is encouraged to participate and share their thoughts, hence the title. Heated debate will be discouraged, but all avenues of thought will be welcomed and pursued. And while I have my own answers that I will share in later posts, I will do my best to keep an open mind when responding to others.

Questions:
In the above passage, Paul stated in verse four that he knew the Thessalonians had been chosen by God - the text reads literally, "knowing, brothers, your election..."

So the questions become:

Question #1: How did Paul know the Thessalonians had in fact been chosen by God?

Question #2: Are there Christians that you yourself could say you know are in fact chosen by God? If so, what do you base this conclusion on?

Question #3: Do you think this passage teaches predestination? If so, in what sense?

Blessings to all who respond,
Hidden In Him

tried to share with you a perspective of how did Paul know, how did Paul trust they would know, how did Paul have confidence ...but only one perspective seems to be of interest.

2 Timothy 1:11 imo says so much and only sharing it for consideration because the question seemed to be (unless I misunderstood): can there be that reassurance (confidence)still today or did it end there. Trying to share it didn’t end there.

“For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed, but I know (perceive, have seen) whom I have believed (entrust) and I am convinced (persuaded, have confidence) that HE is able (Strong, Mighty, Powerful) to guard (Watch) what I have entrusted(deposit) to Him(into, indicating point reached or entered) that day.

Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted (deposit) to you.
2 Timothy 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

1 Timothy 1:11 Lexicon: according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. (Deposit)

Hebrews 10:35 cast not away your confidence
“I am convinced (persuaded, have confidence)
that HE is able (Strong, Mighty, Powerful) to guard (Watch)”

 

[keithr]

God chose and predestined these people before they were born, they were chosen to become members of God's household - "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without defect before him in love; having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire" (Eph 1:4,5)

Here's where we would part company theologically, but as is often the case in discussions of this subject, Keith, it has to do with how the verse is interpreted. I consistently approach these verses with an exacting analysis of the actual words being used. You see, many often interpret various clauses like the above as saying in effect, "having predestined us for salvation," when in fact the actual wording is, "having chosen us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire."

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Although it actually says "predestined us for adoption", not "chosen us for adoption"! By implication you cannot become a child of God without first having been saved from death.

Now, naturally if a child remains in God's family until the time of his death, he is indeed guaranteed of salvation.

It doesn't say that we are already adopted as children; it says that we are destined to be adopted as children (after our resurrection). We have "received the Spirit of adoption" (Rom 8:15) but Pauls says "ourselves also, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for adoption, the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23).

But depending upon one's theology, this is no guarantee. The passage, like the other ones you cited, simply states that they were predestined for adoption (or to be conformed to His image, which is playing on the exact same theme).

But if God has predestined us to become his children, members of the body of Christ, then surely our eternal life is guaranteed, otherwise we have not been predestinated. Read more of the Romans 8 passage:

29) For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30) Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.
31) What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32) He who didn’t spare his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how would he not also with him freely give us all things?
33) Who could bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God who justifies.
34) Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36) Even as it is written, “For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37) No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38) For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39) nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from God’s love, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sometimes I think we overthink our "calling". We study ourselves and take a poll and ask questions... What are my gifts... What are my talents... Thing is I see no evidence of any of that in scripture.

Actually, now that I think about it, all the uses of the word "calling" in the NT actually refer to the calling of God upon the church as a whole; i.e. God's calling upon all believers. But I suppose it was inferred. It's clear enough that each was receiving their own gifts, so this morphed at some point into relating one's specific gifts to one's specific calling to serve God in some fashion.

Can't say as I have a problem with it, but you are correct. Scripturally the teaching is not actually used in scripture, at least as it relates to being applied in that manner.

I think if we are walking in faith... Being led of the spirit, we tend to just fall into our niche. If we overthink and start making our own decisions we may well deceive ourselves into thinking more of ourselves than we ought. Remember Jesus saying when we go to a feast sit at the bottom of the table? Then let the Master invite you up.

I suppose niche is an ok term... although that can be taken the wrong way as well. Many can get pigeonholed into various church ministries and feel they have found their "niche' in life, when in reality they have not yet actually found their true calling, i.e. what they were created to do in service to God. But I do think many can use the language to "puff themselves up" if you will. Lot of people in certain charismatic circles love titles. "I'm an evangelist" or "I'm a prophetess," or "I'm The Most Reverend Bishop, Sr. Pastor, Dr., Prophet, Archangel, And Super Apostle."

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't know if I answered this already or not. But anyway, it doesn't matter if he was ever really saved or not. He's going to hell and he needs to get it right with God. Whether or not he was ever saved to begin with does not change the fact that's he going to hell. That's the part we need to give our attention to—the fact that he is demonstrating that he is unsaved and will go to hell if he dies that way.

Agreed.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It doesn't say that we are already adopted as children; it says that we are destined to be adopted as children (after our resurrection). We have "received the Spirit of adoption" (Rom 8:15) but Pauls says "ourselves also, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for adoption, the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23).

Here's something interesting to discuss!

Ok, let's look it.

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God (Romans 8:14-16).

Now, the words "these are the sons of God" are present indicative, not future. Likewise the words, "we are the children of God" in v. 16. So the next question becomes, how can they already be sons of God if they have not yet been adopted? Since this is all being stated in the same context, the inference is that he means the adoption has already taken place.

As for your citation of v.23, what I found interesting just now is that the Greek word for adoption (υἱοθεσίαν) isn't actually in some of the earliest texts. In texts like p46 and 06D it simply reads, "awaiting the redemption of our body." That's kind of interesting. I've always respected p46 and held it in high regard, but I've not come across any textual difference that caught my eye like that before.

Anyway, I think logic kinda flies in the face of your argument a little. But maybe you have an answer.

But if God has predestined us to become his children, members of the body of Christ, then surely our eternal life is guaranteed, otherwise we have not been predestinated. Read more of the Romans 8 passage:

29) For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30) Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.
31) What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32) He who didn’t spare his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how would he not also with him freely give us all things?
33) Who could bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God who justifies.
34) Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36) Even as it is written, “For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37) No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38) For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39) nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from God’s love, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is a powerful passage. My only problem with it as a proof text for predestination doctrine is that it never addresses the issue of denying Christ. Certainly it addresses opposition to the faith from the outside, but not the possibility of rejecting Him on the inside, which indeed appears to be possible given passages like 2 Timothy 2:10-12.

 

[Hidden In Him]

tried to share with you a perspective of how did Paul know, how did Paul trust they would know, how did Paul have confidence ...but only one perspective seems to be of interest.

2 Timothy 1:11 imo says so much and only sharing it for consideration because the question seemed to be (unless I misunderstood): can there be that reassurance (confidence)still today or did it end there. Trying to share it didn’t end there.

“For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed, but I know (perceive, have seen) whom I have believed (entrust) and I am convinced (persuaded, have confidence) that HE is able (Strong, Mighty, Powerful) to guard (Watch) what I have entrusted(deposit) to Him(into, indicating point reached or entered) that day.

Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted (deposit) to you.
2 Timothy 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

1 Timothy 1:11 Lexicon: according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. (Deposit)

Hebrews 10:35 cast not away your confidence
“I am convinced (persuaded, have confidence)
that HE is able (Strong, Mighty, Powerful) to guard (Watch)”

Ok, but now, you appear to be implying that Paul was talking about other believer's souls when he spoke of God being able "to guard what I have entrusted to Him," but scholars generally regard him to be here referring to his own soul, as when we use the expression, "I am trusting you with my life."

I have some other commentaries I could look up to see if anyone presents your interpretation there, but off hand it's not the way I have ever interpreted that verse either.

God bless, and hope you are well, Victory. Thanks for sharing : )

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ok, but now, you appear to be implying that Paul was talking about other believer's souls when he spoke of God being able "to guard what I have entrusted to Him," but scholars generally regard him to be here referring to his own soul, as when we use the expression, "I am trusting you with my life."

I have some other commentaries I could look up to see if anyone presents your interpretation there, but off hand it's not the way I have ever interpreted that verse either.

God bless, and hope you are well, Victory. Thanks for sharing : )

Thanks. Good point. “Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.”
Depends on what is the treasure which has been entrusted to be guarded by the Holy Spirit?

You said: Ok, but now, you appear to be implying that Paul was talking about other believer's souls when he spoke of God being able "to guard what I have entrusted to Him," but scholars generally regard him to be here referring to his own soul, as when we use the expression, "I am trusting you with my life."

2 Corinthians 4:5-7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. [6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. [7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

What is “this treasure” in earthen vessels?
which has been entrusted to be guarded by the Holy Spirit?

 

[keithr]

What is “this treasure” in earthen vessels?
which has been entrusted to be guarded by the Holy Spirit?

We have been begotten again to become a new creature in Christ. The earthern vessel is our fleshly (human) body. The "treasure" is the embryonic new creature that will be born in the resurrection:

"For our citizenship is in heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working by which he is able even to subject all things to himself" (Php 3:20-21).

"Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is" (1 John 3:2).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The "treasure" is the embryonic new creature that will be born in the resurrection:

Realize we all have different perspective. It is hard to ignore how different those perspective are. You said “will be born” but (imo) “he is a new creature” is already in “awake unto righteousness”. Not will be born but “unless you be born again”. Having passed from death into life. As in: the darkness is passed; the Light has come.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

and not imputing their trespasses unto them; has committed (entrusted) unto us the word of reconciliation. Hold fast that good thing by the Holy Spirit, this treasure entrusted unto you. “The word of reconciliation”
As you have borne the earthly, you also shall bear the heavenly ...(imo) today, now, you must be born again. Not a future bearing ....but today “put on the New”

 

[charity]

'For the which cause I also suffer these things:
nevertheless I am not ashamed:
for I know whom I have believed,
and am persuaded that he is able to keep
that which I have committed unto Him against that day.
Hold fast the form of sound words,
which thou hast heard of me,
in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That good thing which was committed unto thee keep
by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.'
(2 Timothy 1:12-14)

@Hidden In Him
@VictoryinJesus

Hello there,

Paul's vital message, given to him by revelation of God, and written in these later epistles (Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Tim. Titus and Phil.) and Paul himself too, was being 'turned away from' (2 Timothy 1:15) and 'forsaken' (2 Timothy 4:10-11 & 16); nevertheless the Lord both 'stood with Him' and would continue to 'preserve him' (2 Timothy 4:17-18); and Paul was assured would also 'keep' the deposit of truth committed unto him (2 Timothy 1:12). 'The form of sound words,' (v.13) or the 'good thing'(v.14) that Paul had committed to Timothy, he was urged also to 'keep' by the Holy Ghost which dwelt in him: for all around Timothy in Ephesus, there was debate and the strife of tongues, for the message was being forsaken, but he was to study to show himself approved unto God, by rightly dividing the word of Truth (2 Timothy 2:14-19) committed to him.

The deposit of truth committed to Paul by God, and made known in these later epistles was to be 'kept' by Timothy; and Paul was assured it would be 'kept', or guarded, by God also; so that it's vital truth for the church which is His Body would not be lost to future generation. Which we know to be true, for we have it today.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[keithr]

Now, the words "these are the sons of God" are present indicative, not future. Likewise the words, "we are the children of God" in v. 16. So the next question becomes, how can they already be sons of God if they have not yet been adopted? Since this is all being stated in the same context, the inference is that he means the adoption has already taken place.

As for your citation of v.23, what I found interesting just now is that the Greek word for adoption (υἱοθεσίαν) isn't actually in some of the earliest texts. In texts like p46 and 06D it simply reads, "awaiting the redemption of our body." That's kind of interesting. I've always respected p46 and held it in high regard, but I've not come across any textual difference that caught my eye like that before.

Anyway, I think logic kinda flies in the face of your argument a little. But maybe you have an answer.

I have understood this as I wrote in reply #19:

In Israel boys were no better off than servants until they came of age, only then they were adopted as sons. Only at that point did they have the freedom, rights and privileges of a son and could inherit their father’s property. This is what the Bible is referring to when it says that we become adopted as sons of God. Having become adopted sons of God, our obedience is not the forced obedience of servants, but the loving obedience of sons, and we have an inheritance in Christ: “so long as the heir is a minor, he is no better off than a slave, even though the whole estate is his; he is subject to guardians and trustees until the date set by his father. So it was with us: during our minority we were slaves, subject to the elemental spirits of the universe, but when the appointed time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to buy freedom for those who were under the law, in order that we might attain the status of sons. To prove that you are sons, God has sent into our hearts the Spirit of his Son, crying ‘Abba, Father!’ You are therefore no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, an heir by God’s own act” (Gal 4:1-7), “fellow-heirs with Christ” (Rom 8:17).

So I was interpreting it as we are considered sons, for we have been begotten again as sons, but we don't become adopted and gain full sonship, and have all the privileges such as being heirs, until our resurrection, when we are born again, when we are given a new immortal spirit body and become a new creature. We certainly don't gain the inheritance, and share it with Jesus, until after we have been changed in the resurrection.

But maybe I was wrong, and we are now already considered as adopted sons, but we are still waiting to be born again in order to be changed into immortal divine spirit beings, similar to our brother Jesus, and to then gain our joint inheritance with Jesus. But verse 23 does say "we ourselves [are] ... waiting for adoption, the redemption of our body" in all of the Bible translations that I have access to.

This is a powerful passage. My only problem with it as a proof text for predestination doctrine is that it never addresses the issue of denying Christ. Certainly it addresses opposition to the faith from the outside, but not the possibility of rejecting Him on the inside, which indeed appears to be possible given passages like 2 Timothy 2:10-12.

Yes, our inheritance is conditional - "and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him" (Rom 8:17). We suffer as living sacrifices, eventually suffering death, following in Jesus' footsteps. As Paul said, "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the assembly" (Col 1:24). So our portion in the inheritance is dependent on how much we suffer and self-sacrifice.

But our salvation is assured:
1 John 5:16-19 - "If any one see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life, for those that do not sin unto death. There is a sin to death: I do not say of that that he should make a request. Every unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to death.
We know that every one begotten of God does not sin, but he that has been begotten of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the wicked one."

 

[VictoryinJesus]

'For the which cause I also suffer these things:
nevertheless I am not ashamed:
for I know whom I have believed,
and am persuaded that he is able to keep
that which I have committed unto Him against that day.
Hold fast the form of sound words,
which thou hast heard of me,
in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That good thing which was committed unto thee keep
by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.'
(2 Timothy 1:12-14)

@Hidden In Him
@VictoryinJesus

Hello there,

Paul's vital message, given to him by revelation of God, and written in these later epistles (Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Tim. Titus and Phil.) and Paul himself too, was being 'turned away from' (2 Timothy 1:15) and 'forsaken' (2 Timothy 4:10-11 & 16); nevertheless the Lord both 'stood with Him' and would continue to 'preserve him' (2 Timothy 4:17-18); and Paul was assured would also 'keep' the deposit of truth committed unto him (2 Timothy 1:12). 'The form of sound words,' (v.13) or the 'good thing'(v.14) that Paul had committed to Timothy, he was urged also to 'keep' by the Holy Ghost which dwelt in him: for all around Timothy in Ephesus, there was debate and the strife of tongues, for the message was being forsaken, but he was to study to show himself approved unto God, by rightly dividing the word of Truth (2 Timothy 2:14-19).

The deposit of truth committed to Paul by God, and made known in these later epistles was to be 'kept' by Timothy; and Paul was assured it would be 'kept', or guarded, by God also; so that it's vital truth for the church which is His Body would not be lost to future generation. Which we know to be true, for we have it today.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

You have a gift of clarity. Thank you for help...and patience

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul's vital message, given to him by revelation of God, and written in these later epistles (Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Tim. Titus and Phil.) and Paul himself too, was being 'turned away from' (2 Timothy 1:15) and 'forsaken' (2 Timothy 4:10-11 & 16); nevertheless the Lord both 'stood with Him' and would continue to 'preserve him' (2 Timothy 4:17-18); and Paul was assured would also 'keep' the deposit of truth committed unto him (2 Timothy 1:12). 'The form of sound words,'

Very insightful! Thank you for sharing. Wow. You said: Paul himself too, was being 'turned away from' (2 Timothy 1:15) and 'forsaken' (2 Timothy 4:10-11 & 16); nevertheless the Lord both 'stood with Him'”

and you said: ‘The form of sound words,' (v.13) or the 'good thing'(v.14) that Paul had committed to Timothy, he was urged also to 'keep' by the Holy Ghost which dwelt in him: for all around Timothy in Ephesus, there was debate and the strife of tongues, for the message was being forsaken,”

Makes me consider: John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:20-24 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;(that Paul had committed to Timothy, he was urged also to 'keep' by the Holy Spirit)if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. [21] But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. [22] If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. [23] He that hateth me hateth my Father also. [24] If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

...for the message was being forsaken,”
turned away from

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is why I like to take passages one by one and really examine them in detail. When each one is put under a microscope, sometimes what we thought were many verses that taught a certain thing start to evaporate. But again, I understand what it means to be reading multiple verses from a certain perspective. It can be tough reading them any other way because an interpretation has become so engrained. Not that such interpretations are necessarily wrong, mind you, but if they are, they can be very hard to extricate oneself from.

where confusion comes in is that people take a verse from one context that applies to one thing and apply it elsewhere.

Absolutely. Today there are more varieties of "weeds" than you can shake a stick at, both literally and spiritually, LoL.
Trust me, I know. I have a backyard in Southern Louisiana.

As a teacher, I hope the garden I plant is filled with wheat for the Masters Barns, but as a homeowner, other than about 4-5 vegetables, the only thing I am good at growing is weeds!

 

[Hidden In Him]

2 Corinthians 4:5-7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. [6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. [7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

What is “this treasure” in earthen vessels?
which has been entrusted to be guarded by the Holy Spirit?

The immediate context shows he's talking about the gospel itself. Why?

 

[Hidden In Him]

'For the which cause I also suffer these things:
nevertheless I am not ashamed:
for I know whom I have believed,
and am persuaded that he is able to keep
that which I have committed unto Him against that day.
Hold fast the form of sound words,
which thou hast heard of me,
in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That good thing which was committed unto thee keep
by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.'
(2 Timothy 1:12-14)

@Hidden In Him
@VictoryinJesus

Hello there,

Paul's vital message, given to him by revelation of God, and written in these later epistles (Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Tim. Titus and Phil.) and Paul himself too, was being 'turned away from' (2 Timothy 1:15) and 'forsaken' (2 Timothy 4:10-11 & 16); nevertheless the Lord both 'stood with Him' and would continue to 'preserve him' (2 Timothy 4:17-18); and Paul was assured would also 'keep' the deposit of truth committed unto him (2 Timothy 1:12). 'The form of sound words,' (v.13) or the 'good thing'(v.14) that Paul had committed to Timothy, he was urged also to 'keep' by the Holy Ghost which dwelt in him: for all around Timothy in Ephesus, there was debate and the strife of tongues, for the message was being forsaken, but he was to study to show himself approved unto God, by rightly dividing the word of Truth (2 Timothy 2:14-19) committed to him.

The deposit of truth committed to Paul by God, and made known in these later epistles was to be 'kept' by Timothy; and Paul was assured it would be 'kept', or guarded, by God also; so that it's vital truth for the church which is His Body would not be lost to future generation. Which we know to be true, for we have it today.

Very nicely put together!