• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
7,034
2,615
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
@marks: - It is often the case that we forget what our sins are and because we forget what those sins were, we have no reason to repent of them. Sadly they will remain until we remember them and repent of them, particularly the primary sin which manifests the other sins that we do.

Shalom

PS: - You are not the only one this applies too, I am just as guilty as the next person is.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,910
21,967
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@marks: - It is often the case that we forget what our sins are and because we forget what those sins were, we have no reason to repent of them. Sadly they will remain until we remember them and repent of them, particularly the primary sin which manifests the other sins that we do.

Shalom

PS: - You are not the only one this applies too, I am just as guilty as the next person is.
I have a different way of thinking about that.

I've repented, and been converted. Now my mind is being renewed. God is in charge of that, and He's really really good at it. This is part of the answer that we rest in His finished work. We have confidence in Him.

Forget, don't forget, that's not the point. God works in you.

"Unresting, unhasting, and silent as light,
nor wanting nor wasting, thou rulest in might!"


Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,910
21,967
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Have we considered that our grief maker is in reality calling out for help to change his circumstances for the better.
I think that is common.

Projection, reaction formation, these are two names people have devised, but simply to say, the thing that some scream the most about in others is the thing that plagues them mercilessly in themself.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,910
21,967
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do we respond appropriately when God puts someone in need in our orbit?

I know that I do not always respond appropriately,
And one more thing . . . yes, me too! I have to stop and refocus myself, and look to God, what He wants said. Yes, I am an imperfect vessel, a "cracked pot".

:)

Much love!
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
7,034
2,615
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I get it. A pre-trib thing.

What a load of nonsense!!

Do you really think . . . that I really think . . . I'm exempted from troubles in this world?? Seriously?

Or are you just saying this to make me look bad? I figure it's that, or, like so many do, you just like to share your low opinion of me.

Thinking it's important!

Much love!

Do you or do you not, believe in the soon to happen Pre-trib release/rapture from the troubles to come in the earth?

As for being exempted from the troubles in this world, what you are experiencing is nothing compared to what Christians in other nations are experiencing around the world.

They are being killed, imprisoned, ostracized, kicked out of their families etc. for believing in Christ. Our life experiences are nothing like theirs to be compared with, we live in a "soft" society where Christianity is being tolerated at the moment. A time is coming when this will not be the case.

Shalom
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,910
21,967
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you or do you not, believe in the soon to happen Pre-trib release/rapture from the troubles to come in the earth?
You would suppose that my view on the rapture is based on some supposed escapism?

Would it suprise you to learn . . . I want to remain in this world as long as possible? This is the vineyard. This is where we gather fruit. I want as much harvest as I can!

"Release from troubles", these are your words.

Gathered to Jesus, those are the Biblical words.

I just don't have much to say when someone decides I'm escapist because I happen to hold a certain doctrinal view.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,910
21,967
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
what you are experiencing is nothing compared to what Christians in other nations are experiencing around the world.

They are being killed, imprisoned, ostracized, kicked out of their families etc. for believing in Christ. Our life experiences are nothing like theirs to be compared with, we live in a "soft" society where Christianity is being tolerated at the moment. A time is coming when this will not be the case.
I think so too. Flayed, and similar fates! God help us to pray!

Much love!
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You make it sound like you think you control whether or not the Holy Spirit remains in you after you are reborn. When His Word comes to you, let it remain, and it will remain forever!

Much love!
And if I don't let it remain? Then what?
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And you won't learn much from examining every place word is used? Oh my!
No, I didn't say that. You have to examine context and intent to see the difference between faith and believing. Like how James says even demons believe!
 
Last edited:

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How would you define "justification"?
Justification means to be declared righteous. One way we are declared righteous is when we are made righteous by having our unrighteousness legally removed from our account through God's forgiveness and having it replaced with God's righteousness. That's the part of justification Paul talks about in his letters. The other way we are declared righteous is when we show through our behavior that we have the righteousness of God. That's the part of justification James talks about.

How does it relate to sin?
Justification in regard to sin means 1) to be made righteous by having your sin guilt legally removed 'just as if you'd never done it', and 2) having God's righteousness put in it's place by the Holy Spirit showing yourself to be righteous as He is righteous.

How does it relate to the nature of our being as God's children?
The nature of your being changes when you receive God's justification. Because justification is not just a change of legal status from unrighteous to righteous. Justification also means having the power of the flesh crucified so that you are declared to be righteous as demonstrated by your behavior, not just declared to be righteous in a legal sense.

The important point being, if you can't demonstrate that you are righteous in Christ then you have either never received a declaration of righteousness from God, or, for whatever the reason, you're not walking in the righteousness you have received.
 
Last edited:

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are saying I'm defining words based on my doctrinal view. What do you call it?

Much love!
You are defining words in the narrow and limited way of a particular doctrinal view. Your view is being limited by a particular teaching. It happens to all of us. We all need to shed the blinders of our denominational teachings that force us to only be able to see the one narrow view it lets us see.
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are denying the definition of the words themselves. zoen aionos is not equal to Iesous.
1 John 1:2
2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

1 John 5:20
Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Revelation 1:17-18
I am the First and the Last, 18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever!

And those pesky words studies . . .
Word studies are not pesky as long as they take into consideration intent and context. I've seen too many Christians flip to the word usage and definition part of a Strong's concordance and take the usage and definition of a word they like and apply it where it does not belong.

" . . . should not perish, but have eternal life . . ." (shows meaning in the contrast)

John 10:28
28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

This expression . . . "eternal life", has a meaning of it's own. What is it?
As I showed you, Jesus and the life that is in him is what is eternal. All believing people have eternal life (Jesus) in them. Your possession of that which is eternal and everlasting (Jesus) is forever if you continue in your believing all the way to the end of your life. Whether or not you get to forever keep Him who is eternal (Jesus) depends on if you keep on believing in him. Some say the true believer can't help but to continue to believe in him. Others say the true believer can stop believing in him. But the one thing that is true in both cases, you must continue to believe to the very end of your life to forever have Jesus "the true God and eternal life" 1 John 5:20.

Jesus used the words this way, "I give to them eternal life, and they shall never perish".

They shall never perish . . . because . . . this life . . . is eternal. Age-during.
Yes, all BELIEVERS continuing in their believing have this promise of never perishing and having eternal life. People who do not continue to believe do not have that promise.

1 John 2:24-25
24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.

It doesn't matter if you think the believer can't help but to have what he heard in the beginning remain in him, or if you think the believer has the choice of whether or not what they heard in the beginning remains in them. That doesn't change the fact that what you heard in the beginning must remain in you for you to remain in the Son and the Father and have the promise of eternal life.
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As i told you......your savior is...."as long as i keep believing".

Whereas mine is. "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross".

See the difference?
You are trusting in you to continue your salvation, as long as you keep doing it.
Im trusting in what Christ did already, that has saved me 2000 yrs ago,= that has made me eternally secure, forever.

See, "falling from grace" does not argue that Christ saves you......it argues that he does not KEEP you saved.

"falling from Grace".....sounds like this, Ferris....>"yes, i KNOW Im saved.....but, see.....i have to"...

See that?
Look carefully.
Trusting in God for the forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ is not a work of self righteous merit or boast. Paul said so.
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Read just 3 more verses in that Chapter and notice that God does not charge sin to the Born Again.
So you're saying John turned right around and contradicted what he just said 3 verses before. You need to seek the understanding that does not cause John to contradict himself.
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Read just 3 more verses in that Chapter and notice that God does not charge sin to the Born Again.
That's right. God does not charge sin to a believing born again person. It is charged to the person who does not believe. That's why John exhorts us to let what we heard in the beginning remain in us.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,755
13,081
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
-

Romans 4:5 says that God does not charge your sin to you, ever again.

To this Point;
FOR he WHO IS; IN Christ;
Past Sin:
•IS Forgiven,
•Heart IS Circumcised,
•Body IS Crucified, Washed, Sanctified, Covered, Justified to be Risen in Glory,
•Soul IS Restored, Saved
•Spirit IS Born Again From Gods Seed.
•Received Gods Spirit.
*That man IS called WHOLE.
*That man IS IN Jesus' Raised Body.
*That man CAN NOT Ever SIN AGAIN
••IOW- A man's SIN WAS AGAINT the Lord GOD Almighty...
••That man's SIN WAS being Naturally Born...
Without BELIEF IN the Lord God Almighty
•• Once a man HEARS "and" ELECTS TO Confess Heartful True Belief...
•• By the Almighty Power of God (who IS Christ)... that man Becomes "MADE WHOLE",
Once and Forever SEALED UNTO The SUPREME KING Himself; Lord God Almighty.

So, i'll ask you 4 questions.

1.) If the born again, are "IN Christ", and are "ONE" with God and Christ, can sin exist there?

^ This is probably one of the MOST misunderstood questions ...but Scripture Reveals the Answer.

•Our Past Sin EXISTS.
•Our Past SIN IS DISBELIEF.
•Our Past SIN IS DARKNESS.
•Gods Favorable and Acceptable and Taught "REMEDY":
...HEARTFUL confession of Belief.
...Crucifying, Washing, Preparing mans body
...COVERING man's SIN...WITH HIS SPIRIT;
.......WHICH IS HIS PURE LIGHT
• Pure Light OVER COMES All DARKNESS

••••
Man's OUTSIDE...SIN Flesh Body IS WASHED.
Man's INSIDE...SIN "Disbelief" IS "OVERCOME", COVERED by Gods Pure LIGHT, NO LONGER, IS man's INSIDE SIN "SEEN".
NO LONGER. IS man's INSIDE SIN "Remembered".
...That man IS, Sanctified, (SET APART); Justified.... TO BE Raised (Resurected) and Claimed (Redeemed) IN HIS "OWN" Glorified (SINLESS) BODY.

We have NOT "YET" been Raised SINLESS.
We have been Forgiven.
Our Internal Sin has Been OVERCOME.
We have Gods Overpowering Light...that WE CAN NEVER AGAIN (Sin/ NOt Believe)...
But we ARE NOT SINLESS...until the Day We are Raised In our OWN SINLESS Body.
We ... ARE PERFECTED...and Living IN Christ Jesus' risen Body.
But WE are neither SINLESS or PERFECT.
We ARE ...Forgiven and SET APART WITH Our Lord and Prepared at ANY moment to BE CALLED up to our Great Lord God Almighty.

2,) If being born again, means to be born INTO GOD's Spirit, being made worthy to be there by "the righteousness of God in Christ", as "made Righteous", as "The gift of Righteousness", is there any sin found there?

We are NOT Born Again "INTO" Gods Spirit.
We are "Born Again"... "BY", Gods "SEED".
And "BY" Gods POWER and MERCY, HE Gives us "His SEED."

3.) If we the born again, are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, and God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are IN US, can sin be found there?

Gods Temple, IS His.
His Throne, IS His.
His Throne IS HEAVEN.
His Temple is IS pure HOLINESS.
Earth IS Gods Footstool.
...Heaven has (Layers, so to Speak)
...Highest...where God Sits, Untouched BY Darkness.
...Heaven (mid), Holy Angel's Habitat.
...Heaven (lower), Unholy, fallen Angels, cast to Earth, CAN still travel to AND fro between Earth and Lower Heaven.
...The Earth, The Lower Heavens Have Been "Tainted" with DARKNESS and SIN...
••• "By" the MERCY, WILL and POWER of God...
• He HAS BEEN...DIVIDING...mankind (human Persons), "FROM" EVIL.... "RESTORING" willing mankind "TO GOOD".
• The Tainted Heavens, The Tainted Earth, The Divided mankind, The Holy and Fallen Angels....SHALL "ALL" be "SEPARATED"...
•••
And the Restored; New Heavens, New Earth, New Glorified man, Holy Angels ... All Together...Without Barriers (between Heaven and Earth)...All together with their Holy Lord God Almighty...Forever.
•••Men are Being "PREPARED" for that Great Day of Final Separation.
•••The Earth and Heavens ...just like a man's "BODY"...must All BE Destroyed / Dead First.
"OVERCOME"!

4.) If all the born again exist eternally as #1 and #2, #3 then does any sin exist there?

Sin DOES NOT EXIST IN God or His Pure Light. Our Internal SIN IS Covered BY GODS Light. REMOVED? No....
Forgiven, Covered, Unseen, Remembered No More....Yes.
We are NOT SINLESS.
We are NOT PERFECT.
We are "Perfected"... BY Living "IN" Christ Jesus' PERFECT SINLESS Body.

Now, answer those 4 questions in your own heart, is the best way for you to do it.

Good post. Agree with your Overall Concept.
Think some of the wording skips important and precise steps/order/way.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
16,351
6,802
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Yes, this can sound strange to those who don't normally think this way.

I

Well see, thats the issue that i teach about, everywhere i go...

Its what you said....... "don't normally think this way"..

So, that is the Wrong Believing that is the wrong mind.
And when you exist there, as most Christians do, you live in a "confessing, sinning", and can't stop, issue.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
16,351
6,802
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
[QUOTE="Taken, post: 949388, member: 7756"

We have NOT "YET" been Raised SINLESS.
We are NOT Born Again "INTO" Gods Spirit.
[/QUOTE]


Of course you are "raised sinless".......as if you are not sinless, you are not born again.

See, when we are born again, we are born again INTO this position...."ONE with God and Christ".

So, to be ONE with God, is to exist "in Christ", Spiritually.

This is the "NEW BIRTH"< WHERE OUR BORN Again Spirit has become risen, which is to be "in Christ".

The reason we are water baptized after we are saved (Born again) is to symbolically show that our old man is dead and we are RISEN up out of that water, as a NEW CREATION, who is born again, into God's Spirit.

Being born again, is God birthing your dead spirit into His Spirit, by THE Holy Spirit.