Where is your sin?

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm not so cavalier as that. Truth is what sets us free.

Much love!

There is truth that matters, and there is truth that does not matter. You are focused on the truth that doesn't matter to the neglect of the truth that does. You are not alone. Most in the church are.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Here it is in his own words, @marks ,

See, all that time, all those wasted years that you were not believing, you were still God's Possession, as He purchased you with the Blood of Jesus.
Understand?
You were always "bought with a price"......you were always...."not your own".....once you became God's SON.. = born again.
See, you can't stop belonging to God's eternal family, once you are BORN AGAIN into it

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Every Legalist who teaches their form of "here is how you can lose your salvation".
(Thats the theology of LEGALISM).

Sorry there fella, but that's not the definition of the works gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, everyone who teaches this deception, teaches that you can't know that you will go to heaven, until you have died making sure you kept yourself saved by "abiding" or "enduring" or "holding on to believing"..

No, that's Calvinism, the other OSAS teaching, that teaches that. The Bible plainly says we can know for sure that we are saved and have eternal life by how we live. So that's what I believe.

 

[marks]

There is truth that matters, and there is truth that does not matter. You are focused on the truth that doesn't matter to the neglect of the truth that does. You are not alone. Most in the church are.

There's some double-speak!

And really, for all your protestations, you truly do push against OSAS, so, isn't that disengenuous? And your premise is so elementary, "Unbelievers don't go to heaven", it just makes me wonder!

But then, I remind myself, you have an idea that there is this thing, "wilfull sin", a special class of sin that cost's the believer their eternal life. And that the main trust of your argument, at least as it seems to me, is that we shouldn't understand eternal life be eternal for us. That eternal life is gained and lost.

Whereas I have a view more that in being reborn, we are joined to God, and that never ends.

And no matter how many ways I show that in the Bible, you come back, Sure, but unbeleivers don't go to heaven.

OK.

Yeah, of course!

But this idea about what rebirth is, we really need to talk about that, OK?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

All that is the Gospel of "do-ism", or The Gospel of self effort..... The gospel of works..

Trusting in God for salvation is not the works gospel. Working for salvation is the works gospel.

Romans 4:5
...to the one who does not work but trusts God... ​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ferris Bueller said: ↑

No, you won't learn much through a pure word study. Just look at how the secular world throws the terms 'faith' and 'believe' around. The Bible does the same thing.

Just looking at Greek words won't take you very far in some cases. You have to do that and examine intent and context. 'Faith' and 'believing' is one of those cases. For even demons believe (James 2:19). So if you go purely on a word definition you have no choice but to conclude that James is saying demons have faith in God and are saved.

 

[marks]

From there, your discipleship will be found "dead"., or as James describes this discipleship as "dead faith".
You'll then start to live more carnally.
While this is happening, over time.... bad stuff will start to happen in your life, that is caused by the Devil and is caused by the sinning that is going to bring the "reaping what you have sown", to you.

Along the way, God will intervene.
Over time, He'll do it more.
Eventually, if you dont respond to the Goodness of God that should lead you to repent and go back to 1st Love, God will implement Hebrews 12:6.
If that pain does not bring you around, then you'll lose everything.
Following that, you'll die
And next.... you be with Jesus, ashamed, at the Judgement seat.

See, all that time, all those wasted years that you were not believing, you were still God's Possession, as He purchased you with the Blood of Jesus.
Understand?
You were always "bought with a price"......you were always...."not your own".....once you became God's SON.. = born again.
See, you can't stop belonging to God's eternal family, once you are BORN AGAIN into it, Ferris.

When I read his full post, he's describing the discipling process God does with those who are truly His. I've shared the same with you. God will Always disciple us, even in the chastening - Lit. to train as one trains a child - described in Hebrews, that @Behold is obviously referring to.

Now, here's a key.

Your "unbelieving Christian" is an hypothetical fiction. Name one. You cannot. You can point to people who say, I tried the Jesus thing, but it didn't work for me, and shades of that.

But that's all it is, a hypothical, and you can turn it this way and that however you wish.

And you remain so focused on this one particular part, and remain so adament at using it against people's trust in Jesus to save them all the way to the end.

I ask myself, Why is that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Correct views will harmonize with all parts of Scripture.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11) It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

A rather incredible statement, don't you think?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Sorry there fella, but that's not the definition of the works gospel.

Of course it is. If it's on you, it's on you. Plain and simple. Either you save you, or Jesus saves you.

Not grace plus what you do. Either He saves you or He doesn't.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Just looking at Greek words won't take you very far in some cases. You have to do that and examine intent and context. 'Faith' and 'believing' is one of those cases. For even demons believe (James 2:19). So if you go purely on a word definition you have no choice but to conclude that James is saying demons have faith in God and are saved.

Perhaps you missed my post describing my word studies. Yes, there is more than that.

Of course, intent isn't what we use to under the words, we need to understand the words so we can then go on to know what God is saying to us, and then we will hear from Him His intent.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There it is. The source of their salvation.

It wasn't when they first believed, why is it suddenly that now?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Of course it is. If it's on you, it's on you. Plain and simple. Either you save you, or Jesus saves you.

Not grace plus what you do. Either He saves you or He doesn't.

That's not the definition of the works gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"Unbelievers don't go to heaven"

That is what I'm saying. But we're being told in this thread that believers who stop believing still get to go to heaven.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When I read his full post, he's describing the discipling process God does with those who are truly His. I've shared the same with you. God will Always disciple us, even in the chastening - Lit. to train as one trains a child - described in Hebrews, that @Behold is obviously referring to.

Why is someone who is truly his, and who you say should not attempt to continue to believe (or that would be works), be in unbelief, since that's God's concern, not the believers? Can't God do a better job on behalf of that person? I mean if this whole thing is his bag, not ours, why has God failed so miserably in some Christians?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Correct views will harmonize with all parts of Scripture.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11) It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

A rather incredible statement, don't you think?

Much love!

So you're using this to agree with Behold that even if you stop believing and reject Christ you are still saved and will go to heaven?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

you truly do push against OSAS

What I push against is arguing for OSAS instead of what really counts.......letting what you heard in the beginning remain in you. Solving the OSAS mystery one way or the other doesn't save you. Remaining in what you heard in the beginning does.

 

[Behold]

Hehehe... So certain you are of yourself, despite there being various interpretations and contradicting scripture...
There are several passages that clearly say that we will all be judged on what we have done. .

I have confidence in the Truth.
Thats Jesus. John 14:6

Also, a born again Christian can't be judged in eternity for SIN as their SIN has already been judged on EARTH.
That's = Jesus becoming their sin and DYING for them all. = THE Cross
So, do you see that Judgement? That is the Good News of the Gospel.

After the born again die, or after the Rapture, the born again will give account to Christ for "what have you done in the/my BODY".
And that is not a judgement for SIN, that is a REWARDS situation where our MOTIVE, regarding all the things we ever did, for Jesus, will be evaluated by Christ Himself.

 

[Behold]

No, the believing person is saved right now. And they remain in that saved position if they let the word that they heard in the beginning remain in them.

You are kept saved by the same that saved you.
That's the blood of Jesus.
Your self effort to try to keep yourself saved by believing, after you are already born again,.... is just one more way to not give Credit to Christ alone, for what He accomplished on the Cross.

 

[Behold]

Everyone who is believing in Christ has eternal life. .

No, thats wrong.
its like this.
Everyone who is born again has eternal life, as Christ who is Eternal life is in them.
That's why you have it.
No other reason.