Who founded your church?

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FHII

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Nope, we didn’t agree. I believe I said the opposite. They had to be re-baptized.
Yea ok Mary... Sure! Whatever you want to believe. John's baptism was good enough for Jesus, but not the Apostles. Jesus didn't baptize anyone... So who else besides John (the greatest prophet ever by Jesus's admission) did it? If you could point me to where they were rebaptized with water, you'd have a point. But you can't.

In fact, there is no DIRECT scripture that says they were! I indirectly show through the scriptures that at least two of them were.
 

FHII

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Help me out here. How does a Christian get baptized with the Holy Spirit? You just have to believe, repent and it is done?
You can read how it was done in Acts 2.

Are you suggesting we shouldn’t follow His example and do what the Apostles told us to do? Why don’t you want to be like Jesus?
No, you are mistaking me for yourself. You are the one saying it wasn't good enough.
 

Brakelite

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And which condemned heresies are YOU defending as the "Truth"?
Ariaism?
Gnosticism
Nestorianism?
Sabellianism?
I'm not comfortable with any of the above, so long as you are speaking directly to those teachings, and not the evolved generalisations that are common with arianism and nestorianism. However, I will defend their rights to believe those things. I would not, as your church teaches and practices, advocate any attempt to wipe them out. That said, I'm not comfortable with your own teachings on the trinity either. But I would persecute you because of it.
I also have some doubts concerning Arius. We have so little evidence as to what he believed, which could well have been forged. Other so called Arians did not believe as reported of Arius.
So, YOU expect us to believe that Ignatius, who was ordained Bishop of Antioch by the Apostle Peter and was a lifelong student of the Apostle John, who was STILL presumable alive when Ignatius wrote his Letter to the Smyrnaeans was LYING about Christ's Church?
Of course I expect you to believe it. Why not? You expect us to believe your pope has universal religious and civil authority over the whole world... Why should I not expect what Ignatius wrote as being the root of that heresy? And no, I didn't say he was lying. He was laying out the foundation for heresy. Did not John say that in his time there were many Antichrists? Why not one of his own pupils?
 

Brakelite

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@BreadOfLife
So no, when I suggested those Christian churches your church persecuted because they disagreed with Rome, I want talking about Arius, Nestorius, or anytime else who were genuinely wrong. I'm talking about those your church persecuted for the simple reason they refused to submit to papal authority, and because they were different. Like the Waldensians. The Celtic church in Britain. The Albigenses. The Lollards. The Petrobrussians. Henricians , Arnoldists, Cathari, etc were all to all intents and purposes one people, Christians, who agreed on all major points of faith, but differ on a few minor matters. They were named after certain leaders rose up among them and in diverse places... But those leaders weren't inventing a new religion. Giving them names was just a ploy by the Catholics to give a pretence of many different sects, but the truth was they were simply non Catholic Christians whom the Catholics sought to destroy. The"terrible"heresies they were supposedly cleaving to that were so dangerous to society that they needed to be exterminated we have only the Catholics word for as the Catholics destroyed all they writings. Arius is one example. The Waldenses were another. The Celtic church in Britain another.
 

Truther

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You're dodging the question, as usual.

I didn't ask you which doctrines you don't like. I asked you to prove to me that there was a "tiny remnant" that survivied thoughout the centuries that was the "TRUE Church" - and was revived at the Protestan Revolt in the 16th century.
The Bible says God's truth endures forever....


For the Lord is good, His mercy is everlasting; and His truth endureth to all generations.


This is proof that since God does not lie, He preserved true Acts 2 believers in the earth the last 2000 years.

It is not the phony RCC religion, but individuals that are filled with and led by the Holy Ghost.

The half RCC, protestants, are trying to squirm out of her, but cannot because of her hand me down revelations.

There has always been folks that were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins, and filled with the Holy Ghost.
 

Truther

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Sooooo - you're saying that the Catholic Church was created in 383?
Can you show me the official documentation that prmulgated the "creation" of Church during this time?

I didn't think so, Einstein . . .
Actually it was officially concocted in the council of Nicea.

383ad was just another level of crazy for her.
 

Truther

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luther said James was not scripture
Is it?
Some say revelation is not
Is it?
Some say there Old Testament has more books like Maccabees wisdom etc.
Does it?
Some say Enoch
Is it?
Some say the gnostic books and gospel of Thomas
Is it?

and HOW do you know one is or one is not scripture?
James is scripture.
Revelation is.
The Apocrypha is phony.
There is no "book of Enoch" in holy scripture.
The gospel of Thomas is contradictory and phony.
How do I know?

Because God miraculously set us up in these last days with our 66 book Bible, and He knows what He is doing.
 

Behold

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The water and the Blood are Baptism and the Eucharist.
Peace!

The "Eucharist" is not the literal body of Christ.
"priests" have no magic power to turn the cookie and the juice into the living body of Jesus that you chew up and swallow.

The Blood of Jesus, was shed 2000 yrs ago.
Do not try to impose a religious organizations false idea upon it, as this discredits the fact of the Blood Atonement.
 

BreadOfLife

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READ carefully.
Your theological history, you posted, is amended to teach the Catholic Version.
No bible teaches that Peter was a pope, or that he ordained anyone as a pope.
This is "theological fiction" being drooled on a Christian forum.
So, thank you for showing us what is the "revised history" of the Catholic Church.
Next you'll be telling us about Pope Joan and Mary as a perpetual virgin.
Anad again - you're talking gibberish.
@Backlit and I were discussing heresies - NOT whether the Pope has authority.

Either pay attention - or get out of the way . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You are misinformed, among other things.
My commentary is strictly related to the Catholic Bible, that says, in John 3, that you are "born again by water, or born gain of water".
That is a lie.
Thats a ""doctrine of devils"
You are not born gain by water. You are born again by the Holy Spirit.
So thisi water cult lie, found in a devil's bible, that has created your recent theology, is using you as its tool.

See, you also know nothing about the water cult's theology, that you are lost inside of, currently.
WRONG.
It's contextually perfect.

Nicodemus was asking about how to be born AGAIN - not how to be born. Besides - the verse explicitly states, "Water AND Spirit".
If you don't like those words - take it up with GOD . . .
 

theefaith

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Just read the ACTS.

Every person in the Acts of the Apostles, that is baptized, always believes first,........and that is when they are born again...
THEN....
=Get wet, as the symbol .

Its the same idea as joining the Army.
You join the Army...they ACCEPT YOU..., and they give you a uniform.
The Uniform, shows you are IN, proves you are accepted, but it didnt cause you to be in it.

Water baptism symbolically shows that you are born again, but it didnt cause it.

Salvation is not : The Cross + Water

then baptism is meaningless
God does not command something meaningless

eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

one Lord:
One faith:
One baptism:

is the “Lord” necessary for salvation? Yes
Is the “faith” necessary for salvation? Yes
is “baptism” necessary for salvation? Yes
Water and the spirit, intention, matter, form
 

BreadOfLife

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I'm not comfortable with any of the above, so long as you are speaking directly to those teachings, and not the evolved generalisations that are common with arianism and nestorianism. However, I will defend their rights to believe those things. I would not, as your church teaches and practices, advocate any attempt to wipe them out. That said, I'm not comfortable with your own teachings on the trinity either. But I would persecute you because of it.
I also have some doubts concerning Arius. We have so little evidence as to what he believed, which could well have been forged. Other so called Arians did not believe as reported of Arius.

Of course I expect you to believe it. Why not? You expect us to believe your pope has universal religious and civil authority over the whole world... Why should I not expect what Ignatius wrote as being the root of that heresy? And no, I didn't say he was lying. He was laying out the foundation for heresy. Did not John say that in his time there were many Antichrists? Why not one of his own pupils?
You believe the Church was in heresy at the beginning of the 2nd century? Then the onus is on YOU to show me the teachings of this tiny "remnant" that YOU believe survived over the 1500 years prior to the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

You anti-Catholics are always blathering about this - yet you never seem to be able to PROVE it.
 

BreadOfLife

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@BreadOfLife
So no, when I suggested those Christian churches your church persecuted because they disagreed with Rome, I want talking about Arius, Nestorius, or anytime else who were genuinely wrong. I'm talking about those your church persecuted for the simple reason they refused to submit to papal authority, and because they were different. Like the Waldensians. The Celtic church in Britain. The Albigenses. The Lollards. The Petrobrussians. Henricians , Arnoldists, Cathari, etc were all to all intents and purposes one people, Christians, who agreed on all major points of faith, but differ on a few minor matters. They were named after certain leaders rose up among them and in diverse places... But those leaders weren't inventing a new religion. Giving them names was just a ploy by the Catholics to give a pretence of many different sects, but the truth was they were simply non Catholic Christians whom the Catholics sought to destroy. The"terrible"heresies they were supposedly cleaving to that were so dangerous to society that they needed to be exterminated we have only the Catholics word for as the Catholics destroyed all they writings. Arius is one example. The Waldenses were another. The Celtic church in Britain another.
WAIT a minute.

YOU are the one who is claiming that the Church was in doctrinal perversion and heresy by the beginning of the SECOND century - and now you're jumping over centuries to discuss the heresies that you disagree with. If the Catholic Church was so doctrinally corrupt - how was it that she was able to weed out so many of the heresies that you refuse to discuss - like Arianism, Gnosticism, Nestorianism, Sabellianism, et al?
 

BreadOfLife

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The Bible says God's truth endures forever....
For the Lord is good, His mercy is everlasting; and His truth endureth to all generations.
Amen.

Now, let's see what the Bible says about His CHURCH:
1 Tim. 3:15

"...if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth."

So, Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6) - and His CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of that Truth.
Ergo, if you disobey His Church - you disobey HIM (Luke 10:16).

Good luck with that . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Actually it was officially concocted in the council of Nicea.

383ad was just another level of crazy for her.
Then SHOW me the official document.

Can't do it?
I didn't think so, Einstein . . .
 

Truther

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Amen.

Now, let's see what the Bible says about His CHURCH:
1 Tim. 3:15

"...if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth."

So, Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6) - and His CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of that Truth.
Ergo, if you disobey His Church - you disobey HIM (Luke 10:16).

Good luck with that . . .
The Bible says God's truth endures forever, not the RCC.

Here is the demise of the RCC....

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
 

Truther

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Then SHOW me the official document.

Can't do it?
I didn't think so, Einstein . . .
The Emperor Constantine was your first "Pope".

"Pope" is not in the Bible, but was made up by the RCC as an ecumenical title for it's Emperor.
 

theefaith

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James is scripture.
Revelation is.
The Apocrypha is phony.
There is no "book of Enoch" in holy scripture.
The gospel of Thomas is contradictory and phony.
How do I know?

Because God miraculously set us up in these last days with our 66 book Bible, and He knows what He is doing.

dint recall it coming down the mountain written in stone!
 

BreadOfLife

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The Emperor Constantine was your first "Pope".

"Pope" is not in the Bible, but was made up by the RCC as an ecumenical title for it's Emperor.
As I've said so many times - your ignorance would be hilarious if iut wasn't so darn tragic.

Now you have to provide the document declarig Constantine as "Pope" - as well as the document proclaiming the creation of the Catholic Church at the Council of Nicaea.

Good luck with that . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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The Bible says God's truth endures forever, not the RCC.
Here is the demise of the RCC....

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Well, it's possible that this is referring to "RCC" - whatever that is.
However - it's definitely NOT referring to Christ's Catholic Church . . .