For those who deny the Most Holy Trinity!

[jaybird]

we agree there’s is only one uncreated eternal divine nature

Jews don't believe in a trinity. We already been through it. You know what that scripture means

 

[theefaith]

They agree on the Jewish non trinity "one". There is no trinity in judaism.
Again,when a Jew says one, he means a non trinity one.
Do you know what judaism is?

and the high priest used the same reasoning and verse to kill Christ

 

[theefaith]

Jews don't believe in a trinity. We already been through it. You know what that scripture means

And we don’t believe in Jews so we’re even

 

[jaybird]

Ancient/modern-day Jews, Baptists, and Catholics agree there is one God (Is. 45:21, Mk. 12:29).

i want to go back to this statement, what does this have to do with Jewish people believing or not believing in the trinity?

the science is called astrology.

Any form of censorship Newton may have received at the time does not lend validity to his theories, nor does it prevent modern-day people from knowing what his theories were, and discerning if there is truth to them.

so censorship is ok? we can just go through the bible with a big black marker, blackout everything we dont like, and tell everyone there was nothing to see there anyway.

However, it is not that the only way to achieve causing others to accept the Trinity was to burn them. Many still do accept it every day without the need to burn anyone. You are conflating what people in the Church had done, sinfully, a long time ago, with the doctrine that the Church has followed since long before anybody was burned by Christians, but instead, Christians were burned for believing it. These things are not tied. One is not the result of the other. It is not necessary to kill to believe in the Trinity.

so they burned people alive to make them believe something, and this does not bother you? it sends chills through my body that anyone could be so evil.

 

[theefaith]

i want to go back to this statement, what does this have to do with Jewish people believing or not believing in the trinity?

the science is called astrology.



so censorship is ok? we can just go through the bible with a big black marker, blackout everything we dont like, and tell everyone there was nothing to see there anyway.



so they burned people alive to make them believe something, and this does not bother you? it sends chills through my body that anyone could be so evil.

science and Jews are not authorities
Christ and his church are

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[theefaith]

What about these masons you keep ignoring?

 

[theefaith]

Simple questions

Is Jesus God?
Is Mary the mother of God?

no hurry

 

[jaybird]

It has to do with how these religions agree there is one God, which is important to show that the doctrine of the Trinity remains aligned with monotheism. The Trinity itself is based on the truth there is one God. You simply do not understand the complexity of God's triune and singular nature, because you mistakingly believe the Trinity is the belief in three completely separate gods.

it sounds like filibuster distraction to me. because the reality is it has nothing to do with anything. Jews dont believe in a trinity. they believe in "one" and you know when they say "one" they mean different than when a trin says "one"
this is what your doing - Christian, greek mythology, viking pagans are all the same because they all have a creator.
do you see how stupid that sounds?

Despite what individual Jews or certain Jewish sects believe regarding the Trinity, the one God does refer to Himself in the plural form multiple times in the Old Testament:

hold on now, the individuals in question are Jesus and the scribe and their agreement on the non trinity Most High.

 

[jaybird]

Here is another fact that debunks the trinity. The lack of controversy. The trinity is the most controversy subject ever, yet there is no controversy in the bible. Why? The Jews have always maintained there is one Most High and the Most High was never three persons, had they been told this was wrong and they had to believe something different, it would have been mentioned. This is bigger than circumcision and eating food, yet those subjects caused a controversy and this which is so much bigger did not? Im not buying that.

 

[jaybird]

Your referencing pagan gods confirms my argument you mistake the distinct persons that make up and are the one God with the completely separate individual gods that make up pantheons of pagans.

Nevermind I guess you don't see how stupid it sounds.

Again, Jesus and the scribe agreed one God exists, as in multiple completely separate gods do not exist. If there is any disagreement between Jews and Christians, it is not over whether or not there is one God, because these religions agree there is, but rather whether the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make up and are that one God.

When a Jew says one do they mean trinity?
Yes or no. Don't go off dodging

 

[jaybird]

What sounds stupid is your claim I am saying, "Christian, greek mythology, viking pagans are all the same because they all have a creator." Refer back to post #585 for why.

Exactly my point, so why do you use the argument if it's nonsense?

Refer back to post #585.

You didn't answer there either, it's a yes or no response.
Why would anyone believe you when you can't answer simple questions.

 

[jaybird]

Again, you mistakingly believe I am saying, "Christian, greek mythology, viking pagans are all the same because they all have a creator." Refer back to post #585 for why.

It's the exact same logic.

Refer back to post #585.

There is no answer to the question there. No one is is asking if Jews belief in one Most High. The question is when they say "one" do they mean a trinity? Did you have an answer to that?

 

[jaybird]

Incorrect. Refer back to post #584.

Refer back to post #584.

Yes, its the same thing, your finding one common denominator and claiming they are the same. When someone asks if Jews believe in a trinity and you respond with they believe in one Most High, thats not an answer because its not what was asked. It has nothing to do with anything. This is either a deflection because you know it blows up your argument, or you do not know what Judaism is.

and this is exactly why the church had to burn people alive to make them believe, because these teachings in addition to not holding up against scripture, make no sense at all.

 

[jaybird]

And here is another bible text that disproves the trinity:

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

This passage is disastrous to the trinity as it identifies G-D as the only true G-D to the exclusion of Jesus who the passage says was sent.

Passages like this were contrary to what the trins were teaching and it got so bad they actually went so far as to edit the scripture. This is what Augustine of Hippo wrote in his Homilies on John:

“This is eternal life, that they may know Thee and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent, as the only true God.”


and thats how you make the trinity work, you just edit the scriptures until it fits. Pitiful.

 

[jaybird]

The Trinity as you understand it? No. The Trinity as I understand it? No, but there are verses in the Old Testament that show it is rooted in ancient Judaism [the one] God is a plurality in a unity. Therefore, if the scribe in Mk. 12:32 did not understand that when he said, "Well, Master, thou hast said in truth, that there is one God," it would mean he was either partially blind to the nature of God, or a poorly informed Jew. If he did understand that, did he come to recognize Jesus was the one God incarnate, and that the Father, the Son [Jesus], and the Holy Spirit are the one God? I hope.

I have three questions for you now.

(i) Do you agree water (singular) exists in the following forms: liquid, solid, and vapor (plural)?

(ii) Do you agree the one God refers to Himself in the singular and plural in the Old and New Testament?

(iii) Do you see the Church burning people alive today to force belief in the Trinity?

when Jews dont believe in a trinity, and Jesus agrees with it, i am going to follow Jesus.

 

[jaybird]

another scripture that disproves the trinity:
John 14 28 Jesus says the Father is greater than Him. thats not a trinity.

 

[jaybird]

That does not address my answer to your question, nor does it answer any of my questions.

my mistake, i will answer the way you answer my questions.

Exodus 20 16
16“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

the Jews taught not to bear false witness therefore the trinity must be false.

 

[jaybird]

and more passages that disprove the trinity

John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

G-D does not have a G-D.

 

[jaybird]

That does not address my answer to your question, nor does it answer any of my questions in post #594.

i answered on post 599

 

[Matthias]

Athanasius Creed!

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

You didn’t get that from Jesus.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!

The Athanasian Creed is contrary to the creed of Jewish monotheism.

Jesus, himself a Jewish monotheist, doesn’t associate salvation with allegiance to the Athanasian Creed.