Any non pre-trib teachers?

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Ronald Nolette

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The 7 bowls/vials only last 3.5 days. They happen after the 42 months ends. They happen while the dead bodies of the 2 witnesses lay in Jerusalem. The last few bowls prepare for the 1 hour battle of Armageddon on a Sunday between 5pm and 6pm. The 2 witnesses were brought back to life and ascended to heaven earlier that Sunday morning.

The 7th Trumpet sounds for 8 days, Sunday to the last Sunday until 6pm.


did you get a secret call from somebody telling you this????

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Just this vial alone being poured out takes months to assemble an entire worlds army at Armageddon. then once assembled, march on the city of Petra where Jesus returns to defeat these armies!

And who gave you this info that teh 7th trumpet sounds for 8 days until a Sunday at 6 P.M>? Could you get a little more specific?

I would say this is all a joke, but I think you really believe this nonsense.
 

Timtofly

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did you get a secret call from somebody telling you this????

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Just this vial alone being poured out takes months to assemble an entire worlds army at Armageddon. then once assembled, march on the city of Petra where Jesus returns to defeat these armies!

And who gave you this info that teh 7th trumpet sounds for 8 days until a Sunday at 6 P.M>? Could you get a little more specific?

I would say this is all a joke, but I think you really believe this nonsense.
I do not believe it if that is the impression given. Revelation 10 points out it is days. Daniel 9 points out a week is split in half. I accept God's Word by trusting God gave us all this in His Word.
 

Ronald Nolette

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On Wednesday of that week, if Satan is allowed the week is split in half, but the 7th Trumpet does not stop. The AC is the result of when the 7th Trumpet starts. Revelation 12 has the 7th Trumpet removing Satan and his angels permanently from heaven. The 7th Trumpet covers the rise of the AoD, the image of the AC. Probably set in motion on Monday. If the week is split in half, that starts the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses. Jesus Christ and the 144k leave the earth and the 2 witnesses are all God leaves on earth, other than the blaring of the 7th Trumpet.

The Second Coming is in the 6th Seal. The Trumpets, 6 of them and the 7 Thunders are the final harvest while Jesus Christ and the 144k, along with the angels are harvesting the souls of the sheep, goats, wheat, and tares.

The 7th Trumpet marks the end of the first half, but the first half is not 3.5 years in length. There are only 2 years left after this coming Passover. The 1st Seal was opened in Oct. 2019. What is the Corona virus? It is a white body with red crowns that have literally conquered the world.

The Seals, Trumpets, and Thunders do cover a 3.5 year period. But the Second Coming is the unknown event to happen any time during those first 3.5 years. There are literally 5 Seals that had to open prior to the Second Coming.


Don't know where you got all this, but if you taught this, that teacher needs AA real Bad! You have you rtimelines and events colliding with each other or happening in speeds that are foolish, unless God moves the armies of the world via a Star Trek teleporter.

It is nigh impossible to make heads or tails of this bowl of mush.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I do not believe it if that is the impression given. Revelation 10 points out it is days. Daniel 9 points out a week is split in half. I accept God's Word by trusting God gave us all this in His Word.

And the 70th week is a week of years. IN reality Daniel does not say 70 weeks and one week but says 70, 7's which we know is 490 years.

You should trust the word of God and not some impression you have of it!

also a basic primer in understanding Greek would help you know how "days" is used.
 

Timtofly

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And the 70th week is a week of years. IN reality Daniel does not say 70 weeks and one week but says 70, 7's which we know is 490 years.

You should trust the word of God and not some impression you have of it!

also a basic primer in understanding Greek would help you know how "days" is used.
Daniel was not written in Greek. Every one assumes they know what Daniel, Jesus, and John were communicating. Satan had 42 months to hunt down and bring every last human to Jerusalem. They are already either beheaded or willing to fight against God after 42 months.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Daniel was not written in Greek. Every one assumes they know what Daniel, Jesus, and John were communicating. Satan had 42 months to hunt down and bring every last human to Jerusalem. They are already either beheaded or willing to fight against God after 42 months.

My bad it is Hebrew, but it is still 3 1/2 years not days! And the AC does not hunt down Jews until teh first 3 1/2 years are expired!

You accuse people of assuming they know what Jesus, John and Daniel were saying, but yet here you are trying to tell us what Jesus, John and Daniel were saying. what makes you more right than the simple words of Scripture as written or the myriad others who had "special knowledge" from somewhere ( I won't accuse God) to explain to us why the words written do not mean what they say. YOu are simply another in a long long long line of people who have sought to reinterpret end times prophecy to promote some agenda!
 

Timtofly

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My bad it is Hebrew, but it is still 3 1/2 years not days! And the AC does not hunt down Jews until teh first 3 1/2 years are expired!

You accuse people of assuming they know what Jesus, John and Daniel were saying, but yet here you are trying to tell us what Jesus, John and Daniel were saying. what makes you more right than the simple words of Scripture as written or the myriad others who had "special knowledge" from somewhere ( I won't accuse God) to explain to us why the words written do not mean what they say. YOu are simply another in a long long long line of people who have sought to reinterpret end times prophecy to promote some agenda!
I am just pointing out the only time lines in Revelation 11 and 12.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

A time, and times, and half of time is normally 3.5 years.

3.5 years, 42 months, and 1260 days are all the same length of time.

The normal assumption is that this period of time is what is described in Revelation 13 with the start of the AoD. This period is the last 3.5 years leading up to the death of the 2 witnesses and the pouring out of the 7 vials, ending in Armageddon where all flesh is killed. The FP and beast are cast into the Lake of Fire, and Satan is bound for 1000 years.

That was the standard view of pre-mill teaching for all my life. There are now dozens upon dozens more views put out there today. All assume they know what Daniel, Jesus, and John are saying, yet not many point out what I just posted. I did not originate those thoughts. I just agree with them as I posted them.


What cannot be found in Scripture is the definition of the 70th week. The only thought that makes sense is that week was reserved for the Messiah, and only relates to when Jesus Christ is on earth. Why are some so dogmatic there is a future 7 year period of Christ on earth, when Christ was already on earth for 3.5 years of ministry gathering the OT harvest? This period of time was after the end of the 69 weeks. Daniel just claims after 69 weeks, but claims one week is cut in half.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

No one can agree on the split.

This split could mean two halves of 3.5 years each. Or it could be a literal week. Why would it not be both? John never claims the Seals, Trumpets, and Thunders last a solid 3.5 years. That is adding to God's Word. The only solid time is the last 42 months ending with the 7 vials and the battle of Armageddon.

The 7th Trumpet could last a week. John says days. Daniel's week of days does describe the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet is a woe, as well as marking the end of the NT harvest. It is not a repeat of the Crucifixion week, because Christ will not die again. However Daniel claims in one week, Messiah would be cut off, the week of years. The week of days still future, the 7th Trumpet time could still be cut off if Satan is literally given 42 months extension in the vineyard after the final harvest. Satan's 42 months would be the ultimate time of desolation, even worse than given to Jacob between 70AD and 1948AD.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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What cannot be found in Scripture is the definition of the 70th week. The only thought that makes sense is that week was reserved for the Messiah, and only relates to when Jesus Christ is on earth. Why are some so dogmatic there is a future 7 year period of Christ on earth, when Christ was already on earth for 3.5 years of ministry gathering the OT harvest? This period of time was after the end of the 69 weeks. Daniel just claims after 69 weeks, but claims one week is cut in half.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

No one can agree on the split.

Yes but Jesus did not make a 7 year covenant with Israel, nor is He the prince of the people that shall come and destroy the sanctuary. Scripture does define it. There are 70 7's We know from History that the first 69 sevens ended when Jesus was haild as Messiah on Palm sunday!

The he of verse 27 refers back to its nearest antecedant which is the prince of the people that shall come and destroy the sanctuary- A Roman ruler.

The normal assumption is that this period of time is what is described in Revelation 13 with the start of the AoD. This period is the last 3.5 years leading up to the death of the 2 witnesses and the pouring out of the 7 vials, ending in Armageddon where all flesh is killed. The FP and beast are cast into the Lake of Fire, and Satan is bound for 1000 years.

Well don't know about a normal assumption yes the trampling of teh outer court is the last 42 months before Jesus returns. Which is the mid point of the 70th week of Daniel.

When the 2 wintesses die is speculation and one readin g their own bias into teh scripture. The ony thing we can know for sure is that the 2 witnesses witness for 1260 days. My belief is the first 3 1/2 years. REason? Once the Antichrist rises from teh dead and enters the holy place as the AOD He commands genocide against Israel (Matt. 24) Israel flees the land and is protected by God for 3 1/2 years (Rev. 12) After the events described in Rev. 12-14. The 144,000 are all in heaven, the mark has been commanded. The AC declares genocide against Christians and Jews, an angel circumnavigates the globe warning of the consequence of the mark. The vials commence and culminate in the marshalling of teh worlds armies at Armegeddon to fight Jesus!
 

Ronald Nolette

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What cannot be found in Scripture is the definition of the 70th week. The only thought that makes sense is that week was reserved for the Messiah, and only relates to when Jesus Christ is on earth. Why are some so dogmatic there is a future 7 year period of Christ on earth, when Christ was already on earth for 3.5 years of ministry gathering the OT harvest? This period of time was after the end of the 69 weeks. Daniel just claims after 69 weeks, but claims one week is cut in half.

Wrong. It is spoken of the AC in Daniel!

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus is killed after the 69 weeks! (verse 26) Then comes the people of the prince (Rome) and desolations. Then the he of verse 27 refers back to the prince of the people. This describes the last or 70th week as declared in verse 24. Revelation simply describes events that takes place in the last 7 years.

It is that simple.
 

Timtofly

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Wrong. It is spoken of the AC in Daniel!

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus is killed after the 69 weeks! (verse 26) Then comes the people of the prince (Rome) and desolations. Then the he of verse 27 refers back to the prince of the people. This describes the last or 70th week as declared in verse 24. Revelation simply describes events that takes place in the last 7 years.

It is that simple.
I accept the Covenant with the Messiah. You can have the covenant with some alledged AC.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I accept the Covenant with the Messiah. You can have the covenant with some alledged AC.

Well describe for us this seven year covenant Jesus made with the nation of Israel. I have read the gospels hundreds of times over 46 years and have yet to see one covenant Jesus made with Israel for 7 years and in the midst of that covenant (3 1/2 years) caused teh sacrifices to end at teh temple! and did so , so that abominations could be overspread! So I await you to show all here this 7 year covenant Jesus made with Israel. Also, with Jesus being the God man who was Jewish in his humanity, how is He a prince of the people to come who would destroy the Sanctuary?
 

Timtofly

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Well describe for us this seven year covenant Jesus made with the nation of Israel. I have read the gospels hundreds of times over 46 years and have yet to see one covenant Jesus made with Israel for 7 years and in the midst of that covenant (3 1/2 years) caused teh sacrifices to end at teh temple! and did so , so that abominations could be overspread! So I await you to show all here this 7 year covenant Jesus made with Israel. Also, with Jesus being the God man who was Jewish in his humanity, how is He a prince of the people to come who would destroy the Sanctuary?
The Covenant will be confirmed the week of the 7th Trumpet. It is still future.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I accept the Covenant with the Messiah. You can have the covenant with some alledged AC.


Not alleged but a real individual we call Antichrist. He is or will be the physical son of Satan counterfeiting the real Christ in having a natural mother and spiritual father.
 

Timtofly

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Not alleged but a real individual we call Antichrist. He is or will be the physical son of Satan counterfeiting the real Christ in having a natural mother and spiritual father.
Revelation 13:14-15

...it tells them to make an image honoring the beast that was struck by the sword but came alive again.
15 It was allowed to put breath into the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast could even speak; and it was allowed to cause anyone who would not worship the image of the beast to be put to death.
 

Ronald Nolette

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A 1000 year physical reign.

He has already made that covenant, so it is not future except for its fulfilment.

But what 7 year covenant is Jesus going to make. You deny in Daniel 9 that teh prince of the people is the antichrist but Jesus, so what 7 year covenant will Jesus make that in the midst of He cause the sacrifice and oblation to stop.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Revelation 13:14-15

...it tells them to make an image honoring the beast that was struck by the sword but came alive again.
15 It was allowed to put breath into the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast could even speak; and it was allowed to cause anyone who would not worship the image of the beast to be put to death.

and you r point?
 

Timtofly

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He has already made that covenant, so it is not future except for its fulfilment.

But what 7 year covenant is Jesus going to make. You deny in Daniel 9 that teh prince of the people is the antichrist but Jesus, so what 7 year covenant will Jesus make that in the midst of He cause the sacrifice and oblation to stop.
His life on earth was and will be a multi year covenant that God sent Himself as the Atonement for sin. The 7th Trumpet is a week of days that complete and bring to an end the whole issue of sin and the Atonement.

The Cross brought an end to the economy of the Law of Moses. The Second Coming will bring an end to the judgment of sin, Adam's disobedience brought upon the world.

If Satan is allowed to interrupt the 7th Trumpet with his 42 months, that is the desolation of the end time. Sin will be given a 42 month extension. Those alive at the time will either be marked and worship Satan, while removed from the Lamb's book of life. Or they will be beheaded to be resurrected after Armageddon. They will remain in the book of life and populate the earth for 1000 years and reign over their offspring. No human flesh of Adam's descendants will be allowed to live and remain. Christ kills all flesh at Armageddon. The earth will be populated again though. Revelation 19:21 - 20:4-6

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This is clear that all will die, some (those beheaded) will be given new incorruptible bodies. They repopulate the earth, because after 1000 years, many (the offspring) will be deceived by Satan at the end.

The point is that this time of tribulation is the end of the line of Adam's flesh. It is not just about political turmoil and one world government. That is the Hollywood movie and conspiracy ideology that has turned Revelation into something it is not. This end of carnal flesh does not make for a feel good movie with a happy ending. Then people try to force fit their presupposition of time that has already been fulfilled and unnecessary to make this political correct nuance of a one world government fit into Scripture.

It is the end of Adam's flesh period:

The Seals are the removal of the church first.

The Trumpets are the removal of Jacob's descendants and the time of Jacob's trouble, yes. The sheep and goats, both are removed from the earth, next.

Then the Thunders which we were not told, but after the church and Jacob, what is left? The nations are left, at least all the make up of a nation minus the church and Jacob's house. The wheat and the tares of those who have been surviving the judgments of God. More than likely most of the world will be killed in the Thunders.

This is the theme of a final harvest. It is not salvation nor really survival, because many will seek death but cannot find it. Revelation 9:6

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

God on the throne is doing the removal of the final harvest.

Then we have the last group. The 42 months that cause the week of the 7th Trumpet to be interrupted. There are still humans alive that did not die, nor fit the descriptions thus given. The only thing that describes these humans between Revelation 13 and 19 are those who have received the mark and worship Satan, or those who are beheaded, who reject the mark and refuse to worship Satan. But only because of this extension of 42 months.

It was not because this period was the last half of an agreement. This time was only granted because when the Covenant was confirmed all these people were not harvested.

There is a huge difference between planning a certain event and allowing the event to happen. John witnessed what was allowed, not what was planned. Until the actual events play out nothing is set in stone and a permanent fulfillment. Daniel even caught a glimpse of what may be allowed, but as pointed out, no one can agree even on what constitutes the 70th and final period of Daniel's time. Sin was not removed from existence and the church still had 1900 years. Daniel did not specify any church age. Yet here we are; still waiting for both sin and the end of Adam's flesh. How this world governs itself is the least of our worries. Revelation 17 and 18 is the bitter end of government as we know it. But it will be over at the 6th Seal any ways. I doubt Satan will turn it around in 3.5 years. Just see how well Trump did in 4 years. Change normally does not happen over night, and the geographical change of the 6th Seal will even change the whole way of life, just by itself.

Satan has tried to make things look smooth with a lot of movies that show a feel good outcome. That will not be the case when God has declared death to all of mankind, and most humans reject the way God does things already before God has even started.
 

Timtofly

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and you r point?
That is the only physical "offspring" of Satan. Turning figurative language into reality cannot happen. Satan can no more beget children than a stone can. Satan is allowed a physical construct to be made a living being full of Satan's thought and wicked personality.