Does "the Gifts" List Refer To What Different People Get When They *become* Christians?

[BritGuy]

It says:
"to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit;
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles;
to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues;
to another the interpretation of tongues"
(1 Cor. 12:8-10)

If so, how do those Christians without faith, knowledge or discernment manage?

Also, why does Acts say they ALL received the Spirit & spoke in tongues then all grew in knowledge, faith etc?

 

[a3m24ie]

It says:
"to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit;
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles;
to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues;
to another the interpretation of tongues"
(1 Cor. 12:8-10)

If so, how do those Christians without faith, knowledge or discernment manage?

Also, why does Acts say they ALL received the Spirit & spoke in tongues then all grew in knowledge, faith etc?

I believe it was referring to each meeting time--one given faith, one given prophesy, one given gifts of healing... just a thought. We are all capable of all the gifts, but I know that some gifts are given permanently. But I think that in the church that's the way it's supposed to function--working together as the Spirit gives... then another time He gives to others.... I could be wrong, but I know I've prayed over someone and they were healed on the spot but it's only happened once and I don't have the gift all the time. I also think that most churches just don't function in the Spirit like they used to so verses about spiritual stuff don't make sense because it's been lost over time. :/

 

[242006]

It says:
"to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit;
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles;
to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues;
to another the interpretation of tongues"
(1 Cor. 12:8-10)

If so, how do those Christians without faith, knowledge or discernment manage?

Also, why does Acts say they ALL received the Spirit & spoke in tongues then all grew in knowledge, faith etc?

First of all, they are not gifts given by the Holy Spirit. There is no such thing as 'spiritual gifts' in the Bible manuscripts.

Since they are not 'spiritual gifs', then one has to discern who gets them and what are they --

1Co 12:4​

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Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

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The gifts exist with everyone. This is confirmed in Romans -

Rom 11:29​

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For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

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One does not have to be a Christian to receive gifts from God. Hence, what the scriptures are telling the Bible student is that the listing of the diversities of gifts in 1 Cor. 12 are merely the ordinary skills given to each of us. God's gift to mankind is the Holy Spirit, Who can channel believer's specific skills for the betterment of the many-membered body of Christ. Absent the working of the Holy Spirit, Christians can easily be worshipping dumb idols -

1Co 12:2​

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Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

​

 

[Anastacia]

The New Testament times are very special times, to say the least. The New Testament times were during the laying of the foundation. The foundation was laid by the apostles, prophets, and Jesus Christ himself as chief cornerstone.

This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

The gospel was being revealed to the apostles and prophets. The apostles and prophets were taught, and it is what we now read in the Bible. The Bible also tells us where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

The foundation is laid. Surely we can't prophecy new things and add to the Bible, nor would Bible believers accept new knowledge outside the written word. And we know that since the foundation is laid, and salvation was confirmed, and testified by God to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit....we do know that tongues have been stilled, prophecies ceased, and knowledge passed away.





Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Acts 14:3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

 

[242006]

This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
.
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The foundation is laid. Surely we can't prophecy new things and add to the Bible, nor would Bible believers accept new knowledge outside the written word. And we know that since the foundation is laid, and salvation was confirmed, and testified by God to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit....we do know that tongues have been stilled, prophecies ceased, and knowledge passed away.


Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

If one does their homework, one can see that there is no word 'of'' in the manuscripts in Hebrew 2:4 -

Heb 2:4​

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God[sup]G2316 also bearing them witness,G4901 bothG5037 with signsG4592 andG2532 wonders,G5059 andG2532 with diversG4164 miracles,G1411 andG2532 giftsG3311 of the HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 accordingG2596 to his ownG848 will?G230

​

[/sup]This is a copy of the scripture in question with the associated Strong's Concordance numbers for the words that are actually in the Bible manuscripts. As one can plainly see, the word 'of'' does not have a Strong's number associated therewith, meaning that the word does not exist in the Bible manuscripts. Paul did not state that the Holy Spirit gives 'gifts'.

In order to verify that Paul had the Greek word, which would be rendered as 'of' in English, within his vocabulary, one can see that he did here -

Rom 1:3​

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Concerning[sup]G4012 [sub]his[/sub][sub]G848 SonG5207 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 ourG2257 Lord,G2962 whichG3588 was madeG1096 ofG1537 the seedG4690 of DavidG1138 accordingG2596 to the flesh;G4561

[/sup][/sub]

​

In this scripture, one can see that the word 'of' has the Strong's G1537 associated therewith, which means that the word actually exists in the Bible manuscripts. One can verify that the word 'of' actually means 'out of' or 'from' in Strong's -

G1537
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ἐκ, ἐξ
ek ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

​

Yes, G1537 is the appropriate Greek word to use if, indeed, the Holy Spirit gives 'gifts'. Since Paul used it in Rom. 1:3 and not in Heb. 2:4, the true Christian knows that the word 'of' is not an appropriate rendering in the English Bible for Heb. 2:4.

There is no such concept as 'gifts of [from] the Holy Spirit' in the Bible.

 

[John1]

If one does their homework, one can see that there is no word 'of'' in the manuscripts in Hebrew 2:4 -

Heb 2:4 God[sup]G2316 also bearing them witness,G4901 bothG5037 with signsG4592 andG2532 wonders,G5059 andG2532 with diversG4164 miracles,G1411 andG2532 giftsG3311 of the HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 accordingG2596 to his ownG848 will?G230

[/sup]​

[sup] [/sup] This is a copy of the scripture in question with the associated Strong's Concordance numbers for the words that are actually in the Bible manuscripts. As one can plainly see, the word 'of'' does not have a Strong's number associated therewith, meaning that the word does not exist in the Bible manuscripts. Paul did not state that the Holy Spirit gives 'gifts'.

In order to verify that Paul had the Greek word, which would be rendered as 'of' in English, within his vocabulary, one can see that he did here -


Rom 1:3 Concerning[sup]G4012 [sub]his[/sub][sub]G848 SonG5207 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 ourG2257 Lord,G2962 whichG3588 was madeG1096 ofG1537 the seedG4690 of DavidG1138 accordingG2596 to the flesh;G4561 [/sub][/sup][sub] [/sub]In this scripture, one can see that the word 'of' has the Strong's G1537 associated therewith, which means that the word actually exists in the Bible manuscripts. One can verify that the word 'of' actually means 'out of' or 'from' in Strong's -

G1537
ἐκ, ἐξ
ek ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

​

Yes, G1537 is the appropriate Greek word to use if, indeed, the Holy Spirit gives 'gifts'. Since Paul used it in Rom. 1:3 and not in Heb. 2:4, the true Christian knows that the word 'of' is not an appropriate rendering in the English Bible for Heb. 2:4.

There is no such concept as 'gifts of [from] the Holy Spirit' in the Bible.

If one does their homework, one can see that there is no word 'of'' in the manuscripts in Hebrew 2:4 -

I am especially interested in your statement that there is no of in Hebrews 2:4

Actually there is . πνευματος αγιου this Noun form is known as a genitive of possession. While there is no specific word "of" in the text the term is embedded with in the word form itself.

NewGuy

 

[242006]

If one does their homework, one can see that there is no word 'of'' in the manuscripts in Hebrew 2:4 -

I am especially interested in your statement that there is no of in Hebrews 2:4

Actually there is . πνευματος αγιου this Noun form is known as a genitive of possession. While there is no specific word "of" in the text the term is embedded with in the word form itself.

NewGuy

The genitive case is indeed an expression of possession. However, the genitive case does not state who is the possessor thereof the noun 'Spirit'. if you read the scripture in proper context, God is the possessor of the Holy Spirit. The gifts do not possess the Holy Spirit. In addition, there is nothing in the manuscripts that warrants the rendering 'gifts' instead of 'gift', which is the proper rendering.

Hence, if the clause was properly rendered 'gift of the Holy Spirit' or 'gift that is the Holy Spirit', there would be less confusion for those who take the KJV improper rendering and make a religion out of it.

If the gifts came from the Holy Spirit, the scripture would need the Greek ἐκ in it.

 

[John1]

The genitive case is indeed an expression of possession. However, the genitive case does not state who is the possessor thereof the noun 'Spirit'. if you read the scripture in proper context, God is the possessor of the Holy Spirit. The gifts do not possess the Holy Spirit. In addition, there is nothing in the manuscripts that warrants the rendering 'gifts' instead of 'gift', which is the proper rendering.

Hence, if the clause was properly rendered 'gift of the Holy Spirit' or 'gift that is the Holy Spirit', there would be less confusion for those who take the KJV improper rendering and make a religion out of it.

If the gifts came from the Holy Spirit, the scripture would need the Greek ἐκ in it.

The gifts do not possess the Holy Spirit.

the implementation of the term "of" in Hebrews 2:4 does not indicate that the Gifts possess the Holy Spirit but that the Holy Spirit is the one that possess these gifts and this is where they come from. God possesses the Holy Spirit.

Bubba

 

[Anastacia]

If one does their homework, one can see that there is no word 'of'' in the manuscripts in Hebrew 2:4 -

Heb 2:4​

​

​

​

God[sup]G2316 also bearing them witness,G4901 bothG5037 with signsG4592 andG2532 wonders,G5059 andG2532 with diversG4164 miracles,G1411 andG2532 giftsG3311 of the HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 accordingG2596 to his ownG848 will?G230

​

[/sup]This is a copy of the scripture in question with the associated Strong's Concordance numbers for the words that are actually in the Bible manuscripts. As one can plainly see, the word 'of'' does not have a Strong's number associated therewith, meaning that the word does not exist in the Bible manuscripts. Paul did not state that the Holy Spirit gives 'gifts'.

In order to verify that Paul had the Greek word, which would be rendered as 'of' in English, within his vocabulary, one can see that he did here -

Rom 1:3​

​

​

​

Concerning[sup]G4012 [sub]his[/sub][sub]G848 SonG5207 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 ourG2257 Lord,G2962 whichG3588 was madeG1096 ofG1537 the seedG4690 of DavidG1138 accordingG2596 to the flesh;G4561

[/sup][/sub]

​

In this scripture, one can see that the word 'of' has the Strong's G1537 associated therewith, which means that the word actually exists in the Bible manuscripts. One can verify that the word 'of' actually means 'out of' or 'from' in Strong's -

G1537
​

ἐκ, ἐξ
ek ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

​

Yes, G1537 is the appropriate Greek word to use if, indeed, the Holy Spirit gives 'gifts'. Since Paul used it in Rom. 1:3 and not in Heb. 2:4, the true Christian knows that the word 'of' is not an appropriate rendering in the English Bible for Heb. 2:4.

There is no such concept as 'gifts of [from] the Holy Spirit' in the Bible.

Your argument has no merit. You are playing with words and the meaning is the same.

 

[242006]

Your argument has no merit. You are playing with words and the meaning is the same.

Either one believes the Word of God or not. Obviously, you do not!

The word of God was not scribed in English. Hence, in order to understand the Word of God, it is necessary for the English-speaking Christian to do some homework in the Bible manuscripts in order to avoid the false doctrine that you have accepted.

There is no such thing as 'gifts of [given by] the Holy Spirit' or 'spiritual gifts' in the Bible manuscripts. It is a simple fact!

All christian sects that tout 'spiritual gifts' are false religions.

 

[Anastacia]

Either one believes the Word of God or not. Obviously, you do not!

The word of God was not scribed in English. Hence, in order to understand the Word of God, it is necessary for the English-speaking Christian to do some homework in the Bible manuscripts in order to avoid the false doctrine that you have accepted.

There is no such thing as 'gifts of [given by] the Holy Spirit' or 'spiritual gifts' in the Bible manuscripts. It is a simple fact!

All christian sects that tout 'spiritual gifts' are false religions.

Ah, a false accuser. You blasphemy. I do believe the Word of God.

No one has to learn Aramaic, Hebrew, nor Greek to be saved and understand the Word of God.


Here are scriptures that will be hard for you to twist into your false thinking---


1 Corinthians 12:4-11[sup] [/sup]There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. [sup]5[/sup] There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. [sup]6[/sup] There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. [sup]7[/sup] Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. [sup]8[/sup] To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, [sup]9[/sup] to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, [sup]10[/sup] to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[sup]][/sup] [sup]11[/sup] All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.


Do you see that?! "given through the Sprit"! And, "All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."

Now will you stop with your word play and your strange teaching?


1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

Do you see that?! "spiritual gift"! And did you see the word "any"?! Therefore you do not lack "any" spiritual gift. You say there aren't "gifts," if there aren't gifts, then the word "any" would not be there!


You try to say there are no gifts of the Holy Spirit, and that there is only one gift and that gift IS the Holy Spirit. Then you could not explain the plural "gifts." See this scripture---

1Corinthians 14:12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.


So you don't like the words gifts "of" of the Holy Spirit?! How about this scripture---gifted BY the Holy Spirit...

1 Corinthians 14:37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.


And here is a passage for you---

2 Timothy 2:14 Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. [sup]15[/sup] Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. [sup]16[/sup] Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

Now I will only refer you to this post of mine, if you continue to try to communicate your falseness with me.

 

[242006]

The gifts do not possess the Holy Spirit.

the implementation of the term "of" in Hebrews 2:4 does not indicate that the Gifts possess the Holy Spirit but that the Holy Spirit is the one that possess these gifts and this is where they come from. God possesses the Holy Spirit.

Bubba

Your understanding of the genitive case is incorrect. The gentive case is an expression of possession, measurement, or source -- not just source alone. One is not free to pick n choose the expression type at the disdain of context.

The term 'Holy Spirit [Ghost]' is the Greek pneuma hagion. It occurs 52 times in the NT and is NEVER used to identify the genitive 'source'; but, it is ALWAYS used to idenify God as the possessor and as a gift [measurement] given by God. See Acts 1:4-5. The possessor and giver is the Father. The Holy Spirit IS the 'gift' -- not the giver of gifts.

 

[John1]

Your understanding of the genitive case is incorrect. The gentive case is an expression of possession, measurement, or source -- not just source alone. One is not free to pick n choose the expression type at the disdain of context.

The term 'Holy Spirit [Ghost]' is the Greek pneuma hagion. It occurs 52 times in the NT and is NEVER used to identify the genitive 'source'; but, it is ALWAYS used to identify God as the possessor and as a gift [measurement] given by God. See Acts 1:4-5. The possessor and giver is the Father. The Holy Spirit IS the 'gift' -- not the giver of gifts.

Your understanding of the genitive case is incorrect


I highly doubt it.

It occurs 52 times in the NT and is NEVER used to identify the genitive


Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit is never in the Genitive form in the New Testament?

newguy

 

[242006]

Your understanding of the genitive case is incorrect


I highly doubt it.

It occurs 52 times in the NT and is NEVER used to identify the genitive


Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit is never in the Genitive form in the New Testament?

newguy

You conveniently left off the word 'source' in your emboldened and underlined quote. If you read my post properly, I clearly identified three types of expressions in the genitive case -- possession, measurement, and 'source'. Your analysis suggests that the 'source' expression is the only genitive case, which is not true. Though the 52 occurrences of pneuma hagion are genitve, none of them are the expression type 'source'. Acts 1:4-5 clearly identifies God as the 'giver' and that the Holy Spirit is the gift.

Accordingly, in Heb. 2:4, the Holy Spirit is not the giver [source] of gifts; but the gift is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the genitive expression type 'possession' or 'measurement' [of God], as God is the giver thereof -- but, never the genitive expression type 'source'. Thus, the 'gifts' are not given by the Holy Spirit. The clause should read 'gift of the Holy Spirit' or 'gift that is the Holy Spirit'.

 

[Anastacia]

watchman,

Why don't you answer the question about the other scriptures? Do they null your false doctrine? Do you really think that others don't notice how you aren't answering the other scriptures?


1 Corinthians 12:8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,

1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

You say there are no "gifts," so then try to explain 1 Corinthians 1:7.


So you don't like the word gifts "of" of the Holy Spirit?! How about this scripture---gifted BY the Holy Spirit...

1 Corinthians 14:37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.

 

[John1]

You conveniently left off the word 'source' in your emboldened and underlined quote. If you read my post properly, I clearly identified three types of expressions in the genitive case -- possession, measurement, and 'source'. Your analysis suggests that the 'source' expression is the only genitive case, which is not true. Though the 52 occurrences of pneuma hagion are genitve, none of them are the expression type 'source'. Acts 1:4-5 clearly identifies God as the 'giver' and that the Holy Spirit is the gift.

Accordingly, in Heb. 2:4, the Holy Spirit is not the giver [source] of gifts; but the gift is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the genitive expression type 'possession' or 'measurement' [of God], as God is the giver thereof -- but, never the genitive expression type 'source'. Thus, the 'gifts' are not given by the Holy Spirit. The clause should read 'gift of the Holy Spirit' or 'gift that is the Holy Spirit'.

You conveniently left off the word 'source' in your emboldened and underlined quote. If you read my post properly


Your definition of genitive forms is actually quite archaic.

In Hebrews 2:4 We have a subjective Genitive construction. The Genitive substantive functions as the subject of the verbal idea. This is a very common construction in the New Testament.

The Holy Spirit imparts the gift

God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will..

This almost appears as if it functions as a secondary agency but grammatical that is not a correct conclusion. God, through the works of the Holy Spirit, imparts the gift. The Genitive indicates that the writer understood that these gifts that were imparted were authorized by God the Father but accomplished through the third Person of the Trinity.

NewGuy

watchman,

Why don't you answer the question about the other scriptures? Do they null your false doctrine? Do you really think that others don't notice how you aren't answering the other scriptures?


1 Corinthians 12:8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,

1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

You say there are no "gifts," so then try to explain 1 Corinthians 1:7.


So you don't like the word gifts "of" of the Holy Spirit?! How about this scripture---gifted BY the Holy Spirit...

1 Corinthians 14:37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.

Anastacia

Your post is right on the money

Amen and be blessed

NewGuy

 

[242006]

You conveniently left off the word 'source' in your emboldened and underlined quote. If you read my post properly


Your definition of genitive forms is actually quite archaic.

Courtesy of the American Heritage Dictionary, Third Edition -

gentitive Gram. adj. Of or designating a case that expresses posession, measurement, or source. n. The genitive case.

​

Looks like you are out of touch or wilingly ignorant of the other two expression types. Or, if, indeed, the usage as an expression of possession or measurement is archaic, it does not rule out its appropriateness as the the scriptures [Bible manuscripts] are archaic as well.

In Hebrews 2:4 We have a subjective Genitive construction. The Genitive substantive functions as the subject of the verbal idea. This is a very common construction in the New Testament.

The Holy Spirit imparts the gift

You are in conflict with Acts 1:4-5. The Holy spirit is the gift. Nowhere in the manuscripts does it state that the Holy Spirit imparts gifts. You are simply in error!

God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will..

This almost appears as if it functions as a secondary agency but grammatical that is not a correct conclusion. God, through the works of the Holy Spirit, imparts the gift. The Genitive indicates that the writer understood that these gifts that were imparted were authorized by God the Father but accomplished through the third Person of the Trinity.

Your argument is nonsense -- one designed to give support to your unbiblical beliefs. The Genitive indicates that the Holy Spirit is the possession/measurement of God, the Father, who is the Giver of the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is consistent with the context of the scripture in which the signs, wonders, and various miracles also provide a testament of God.

You raise a common misinterpretation of scripture. See Rom. 11:29. The gifts of God are given without repentance. One does not have to be a Christian to recieve a gift. Hence, a 'gift', per se, is not a special dispensation given by the Holy Spirit upon becoming a believer and repentance of sins. Nowhere in the Bible manuscripts does it state that there is/are additional gift(s) imparted to an individual upon becoming a believer. The gift of the the Holy Spirit is imparted upon all of mankind and will channel one's specific gift(s), given by God at birth, for the betterment of the many-membered body of Christ.

 

[242006]

watchman,

Why don't you answer the question about the other scriptures? Do they null your false doctrine? Do you really think that others don't notice how you aren't answering the other scriptures?

So far -- you have proven to be a scorner of the Truth and have not demonstrated that you have an iota of credibility or willingness to learn this subject. You posted again here that the term 'spiritual gifts' exists in the Bible after I already [in another topic] proved you in error.

However, for the sake of the other non-posting viewers that might see this, I will do you the courtesy and answer your questions this time.

1 Corinthians 12:8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,

See the context of 1 Cor. 12 as set forth in v. 1-3. Paul is letting the Corinthians know that, as Gentiles, they would be worshipping dumb idols if not for the working of the Holy Spirit. Hence, in v. 8, Paul is stating that, by way of the working of the Holy Spirit their messages of wisdom and knowledge come through. It is the Holy Spirit that is the gift. Without the Spirit, they worship idols.

1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

You say there are no "gifts," so then try to explain 1 Corinthians 1:7.

First, it does not state, in English, that there are 'spritual gifts'. Second, the word 'spiritual' is not in the Bible manuscripts for this scripture. One can verify it for one's self in the KJV with Strong's Concordance numbering -

1Co 1:7​

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So that[sup]G5620 [sub]ye[/sub][sub]G5209 (G3361) come behindG5302 inG1722 noG3367 gift;G5486 waiting forG553 theG3588 comingG602 of ourG2257 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ:G5547

​

[/sup]
[/sub]There is no word 'spritual' even inserted by the KJV translators [who bastardized 1 Cor. 12, 14 with 'spiritual gifts']. You are using a Bible that has further corrupted the scriptures.

So you don't like the word gifts "of" of the Holy Spirit?! How about this scripture---gifted BY the Holy Spirit...

1 Corinthians 14:37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.

No problem -- check it out in the KJV with Strong's numbering -

1Co 14:37​

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If any man[sup]G1536 think himselfG1380 to beG1511 a prophet,G4396 orG2228 spiritual,G4152 let him acknowledgeG1921 thatG3754 the things thatG3739 I writeG1125 unto youG5213 areG1526 the commandmentsG1785 of theG3588 Lord.G2962

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[/sup]There is no such clause as 'gifted by the Spirit' in the Bible manuscripts for this scripture. You are using a bastardized rendering of the Bible.

 

[John1]

Watchman2

gentitive Gram. adj. Of or designating a case that expresses possession, measurement, or source. n. The genitive case.

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Looks like you are out of touch or willingly ignorant of the other two expression types. Or, if, indeed, the usage as an expression of possession or measurement is archaic, it does not rule out its appropriateness as the the scriptures [Bible manuscripts] are archaic as well.

WOW! I am not sure what to say. Greek is my favorite subject and now you are telling me that I am out of touch with it or willingly ignorant? I gave you the specific designation of the Genitive form in Hebrews 2:4 and I am not sure that you understand what I meant. Should I spell it out for you in Layman's terms.

You are in conflict with Acts 1:4-5. The Holy spirit is the gift. Nowhere in the manuscripts does it state that the Holy Spirit imparts gifts. You are simply in error!

I could address Acts 1:4-5 and your uninformed comments as to my being in error but since you seem to think that I am ignorant then it would be a waste of your time as well as mine.

Your argument is nonsense -- one designed to give support to your unbiblical beliefs.

Only to those who do not know Greek and have a hard time understanding English.

The Genitive indicates that the Holy Spirit is the possession/measurement of God, the Father, who is the Giver of the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is consistent with the context of the scripture in which the signs, wonders, and various miracles also provide a testament of God.

:blink:

You raise a common misinterpretation of scripture. See Rom. 11:29. The gifts of God are given without repentance. One does not have to be a Christian to recieve a gift. Hence, a 'gift', per se, is not a special dispensation given by the Holy Spirit upon becoming a believer and repentance of sins. Nowhere in the Bible manuscripts does it state that there is/are additional gift(s) imparted to an individual upon becoming a believer. The gift of the the Holy Spirit is imparted upon all of mankind and will channel one's specific gift(s), given by God at birth, for the betterment of the many-membered body of Christ.

I am just going to ignore this part for now. Maybe I will come back to it later.


NewGuy

 

[Anastacia]

Anastacia

Your post is right on the money

Amen and be blessed

NewGuy

Thank you for this blessing and encouragement.

Amen and God bless you greatly.