Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
To point out the faith spoken of scriptures that comes from God, that the saved have received from Him. That the nature of this faith is that it is abiding, never fails, never cease and has great power,

Which is every reason why we should retain such a faith and not cast it away.

Why do you keep speaking about what you will do with the faith when that is not what I am talking about? If you don’t want to talk
about what it is I am talking about just say so. No problem with me.

And since it has been for a while now that you keep evading the issue, I will take that as you not wanting to talk about it. So, let’s drop it then.

Tong
R2677

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Have check on the other translations?

The other translations have done a fine job of weakening important doctrines. Those translations are a fine example.

I wonder if they corrupted this scripture:

"But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." (2 Peter 1:9)

Even those other translations don’t say your future sins are forgiven.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you believe that the faith that comes from God is abiding, is continuing, never fails, does not cease?

It is all those things.

Thank you. That’s all I wanted to know.

Tong
R2678

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
In your other post you said you are saved. Now, the saved must continue in his believing to the very end.

If he does? What happens at the end? Will he be saved? No. He is already saved. He is just manifested to be a true believer.

He will pass through the judgment safely and be ushered into the kingdom of God.

I see that you have no objection to my post in the quote box.

Tong
R2679

 

[marks]

I can't remember if I answered this for you.
The answer is 'yes'.

What makes you so sure? How do you know you won't stop believing?

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
In the former position, him being a true believer and after is no longer saved, it renders Jesus as have failed to keep him and so lost him.

Jesus not losing any is in reference to the accuracy and perfection of his ministry and sacrifice. No one will be lost, who wants to be saved, because of incompetence or lack on the part of Jesus.

The perfection of his ministry and sacrifice in no way means believers are prevented from not availing themselves of that perfect ministry. This paradigm of thought, which is completely alien and unknown to osas, comes from Hebrews. I have noticed osas people don't even realize this other zone of thought exists. They never thought of it before. They're only capable of thinking that the way they think about it is the only thought out there about it.

I learned from scriptures that there are people whom the Father had given to the Son. And regarding them, this is what the Lord Jesus Christ said:

John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me,that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Also, I learned from scriptures that the Father had given people to Jesus, who are His sheep. And regarding them, this is what the Lord Jesus, who is the Good Shepherd and keeper of these people said:

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Tong
R2680

 

[Ferris Bueller]

John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me,that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Anti-osas doesn't make this verse untrue. Through his ministry and sacrifice, Christ is able to lose none and raise them up at the last day. That's why we are told to keep believing in it.

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23

since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess. Hebrews 4:14
​

I want to help you see there is another paradigm of thought outside of the osas way of thinking. As you can see, we are exhorted to keep on believing because our faith and confidence in Christ is well placed. He will not let you down.

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

The obvious presupposition here is that you don't want to be snatched out of the Father's hand. Everybody who wants to be in the Son and the Father will remain firmly in their care. No one can snatch them away. Anti-osas does not make this verse untrue. This is in stark contrast to the old covenant where your fate was determined by a bunch of weak, temporary humans, and an inadequate sacrifice. The old covenant was simply not something worthy of your trust. Christ, the New Covenant is! And so you should continue to trust in Him and not fall away. This is all explained in Hebrews.

 

[marks]

Just as I thought. Readers here will notice anyway and somehow see what is wrong and what is not, what is good and what is not.

But I just carry on and not mind and be caught up with such attitudes and not have like attitude.

I just hope things will change for the good to the praise and glory of our God!

Tong
R2653

Amen!

 

[marks]

while they might be saved for a season from sin

How is it they would be saved from sin for a season?

To my understanding, what saves us from sin is being beborn.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

The other translations have done a fine job of weakening important doctrines. Those translations are a fine example.

I wonder if they corrupted this scripture:

"But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." (2 Peter 1:9)

Even those other translations don’t say your future sins are forgiven.

Here’s the transliterated Greek of Romans 3:25

ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 3:25 Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) - Transliterated
on proetheto o theos ilastērion dia tēs pisteōs en tō autou aimati eis endeixin tēs dikaiosunēs autou dia tēn paresin tōn progegonotōn amartēmatōn

Here’s one extreme literal translation:

YLT
whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God --

Tong
R2681

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What makes you so sure? How do you know you won't stop believing?

I didn't say I know for sure I won't stop believing. See, this is what I was talking about. Because you see everything defined according to osas thought you automatically see what I said as 'I won't stop believing' when I don't mean that at all. It only means that in your paradigm of thinking. The osas paradigm of thinking.

 

[marks]

I didn't say I know for sure I won't stop believing. See, this is what I was talking about. Because you see everything defined according to osas thought you automatically see what I said as 'I won't stop believing' when I don't mean that at all. It only means that in your paradigm of thinking. The osas paradigm of thinking.

Let's try this again. My question to you was . . .

In all the posts I read, you didn't give an answer. Perhaps you will give one to me.

Do you have an abiding faith? Does your faith continue?

Much love!

Oh never mind . . . because while you play your word games, yet still your answer is there.

You don't know whether you have a faith that continues or not, because you haven't seen the outcome yet.

What is so difficult for you to say that?

You don't know whether you will "stop believing." OK.

So maybe you will be saved, and maybe you won't.

And you the only confidence you can have is in hoping you don't run out of faith.

After all this run around, I'll just say, good luck with that!

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You don't know whether you have a faith that continues or not, because you haven't seen the outcome yet.

Sort of like Paul’s attitude:

Philippians 3:11-15
[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after... [13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. [15] Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Interestingly, Paul’s statement of “I Press” would be viewed as “works salvation” if someone other than Paul says this. And the attitude of many Christians is that they have indeed attained unto the resurrection; the total opposite attitude of what scriptures teach.

But many are not perfect, so these scriptures aren’t for them anyway; neither the “they shall never perish” scripture.

 

[amigo de christo]

Either way, if you don't continue in the faith you are no longer saved.

So, why even argue this issue?

How much better it is to just exhort everyone to continue in the faith.

For it is written,

Heb 3:12, Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14, For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Now matter what , bring all reminders that are written in the bible . Yes indeed .
And barnabas exhorted them to CONTINUE in the grace . They did , we do .

 

[amigo de christo]

Faith remains in me. I haven't stopped believing. I have not cast it away. Why are you asking this?

Bring all reminders that are written for our learning . If one is a lamb they will love it all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let's try this again. My question to you was . . .



Oh never mind . . . because while you play your word games, yet still your answer is there.

You don't know whether you have a faith that continues or not, because you haven't seen the outcome yet.

What is so difficult for you to say that?

You don't know whether you will "stop believing." OK.

So maybe you will be saved, and maybe you won't.

And you the only confidence you can have is in hoping you don't run out of faith.

After all this run around, I'll just say, good luck with that!

Much love!

Let us not overthink . Just bask in the beauty of ALL those reminders that Christ and all the apostels left for us
as well as all those sayings in the book of revelation .
If they gave them , let us heed them and learn them well . Remembering that as Christ and those apostels gave instruction
its all for our own good .
Christ knew and knows how to take care of a church . And thus by the spirit of Christ they too knew how to take care of the church .
Thus we would be wise to simply learn those teachings and to farther remind others to do and do likewise .
We have to know that the apostles had sound faith and trust in CHRIST ALONE and if they warned and reminded
WE ought to do the same . FOR the SPIRIT never changes . It knew how to take care of a church back then
so as it would prosper , IT KNOWS how to today . AND it still works through men as well .
Let us heed every single word in the bible that was recorded . Let us heed and learn it well .
If they taught we must continue to the end , we teach we must continue to the end . FOR the SPIRIT worked through them
And it would work through lambs today for the edification and safety of the church .

 

[marks]

Sort of like Paul’s attitude:

Philippians 3:11-15
[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after... [13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. [15] Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Interestingly, Paul’s statement of “I Press” would be viewed as “works salvation” if someone other than Paul says this. And the attitude of many Christians is that they have indeed attained unto the resurrection; the total opposite attitude of what scriptures teach.

But many are not perfect, so these scriptures aren’t for them anyway; neither the “they shall never perish” scripture.

Paul is speaking of attaining to his resurrection life now, not hoping to be raised from the dead later.

We know if this earthly tent be taken down . . .

You shall appear with Him in glory . . .

There are many more places Paul expresses what he received from Jesus.

Philippians 3:8-14 KJV
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12) Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

This passage will not contradict others, such as,

Romans 8:9-11 KJV
9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Does the Spirit dwell in you? Then what does Paul say?

What does Jesus say?

John 11:25-26 KJV
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Do you believe this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Let us heed every single word in the bible that was recorded .

Let us do so in truth, and accurately, and not to turn Words of Truth into weapons against faith.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul is speaking of attaining to his resurrection life now, not hoping to be raised from the dead later.

We know if this earthly tent be taken down . . .

You shall appear with Him in glory . . .

There are many more places Paul expresses what he received from Jesus.

Philippians 3:8-14 KJV
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12) Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

This passage will not contradict others, such as,

Romans 8:9-11 KJV
9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Does the Spirit dwell in you? Then what does Paul say?

What does Jesus say?

John 11:25-26 KJV
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Do you believe this?

Much love!

9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you
This is the proof of whether we are HIS or not . Let this be reminded to both behold and BB .
For as i often have said , we are WHOSE we obey . And yet i see many dangers teachings coming
from hyper grace men . Bask in the beauty of the LORD .
And let us remember , GOD is not mocked , what a man sows to that shall he reap .
If He sows to the flesh , aka TO SIN he shall of the flesh reap corruption
But he who sows to the SPIRIT shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING .
Hyper grace is killing souls fast . The allowance of letting folks FEEL they can continue in sin
and sin often and even stop believing , AND STILL they are saved , IS DEADLY DANGEROUS .
You must speak against what some of those hyper grace ones are saying .
OR you will destroy your own witness with those you are seeking to help .
Hyper grace super Osas is deadly . Its not presenting the true CHRIST , thus its presenting another jesus .
AND WE BOTH KNOW that other jesus cannot save anyone . WE must present CHRIST and remind of all His teachings .
Examine to see if we are following Christ or is it men instead . And by men , i mean those who would teach
contrary to the fashion that Christ did and those apostels would later by grace DO .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let us do so in truth, and accurately, and not to turn Words of Truth into weapons against faith.

Much love!

Then let us teach all reminders . Like
WE ARE WHOSE WE SERVE . Saying things like , LET inquity not once be named .
We cannot allow and teach men , that it wont matter how much or often they sin , it wont matter if one even stopped heeding
Christ and continued to not beleive that they are still saved . What kind of truth is that . WE ALL KNOW that is a lie .
Yet why do we allow some others to even breath words like that .
How come paul never sounded like that . How come HE too said and told the church For we are made partakers of Christ
IF we hold our confidence , IN HIM , firm to the end . THEY ALL KNEW a lamb had to endure to the end .
They all knew if one did not , it was a horrible end . they all trusted in JESUS alone for salvation
and they all taught CONTINUE IN HIM to the end . If they warned , why would we not do the same .
AND why on earth would ANYONE ever once even begin to say , EVEN IF WE do FALL AWAY and stop believing
WE STILL saved . WHEN not even the orignal authors of OSAS would ever dared to teach such a thing .
Something is going dire wrong . And i mean big time .
And many are and will be set up to heed another gospel , and yet feel as though they still saved to do so.
Many men are setting the churches up for a major falling away that even now is growing .
SO many are and have become partakers of a lie . One which says Its not even necessary to believe in CHRIST to be saved .
And others are becoming partakers of helping folks to fall away . cause if we tell folks , NO MATTER what you DO
you cant lose salvation , IF we tell folks no matter if we dont even continue in Faith we would still be saved
WE are not only destroying the true faith we are becoming co helpers of a false inclusive gospel .
NO , i am sticking with CHRIST who said , Those who endure to the end , the SAME SHALL BE SAVED . FAITH IN JESUS
to the last and final breath . AND be not moved away into any other gospel or lie . The churches are in trouble
and many are only adding to that trouble . WE must return to the all out battle and contending for the true faith .
WE MUST behold both the goodness and severity of GOD .
CONTINUE IN CHRIST , CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS , or mark my words ye and anyone else who falls away , WILL be cast out .