WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[dev553344]

Yes, these fruits most definitely manifest themselves when we are serving the Lord; however, they come in the first place because we have placed our faith in Jesus Christ.

We receive the Holy Spirit through faith (Galatians 3:14) and the fruits of the Spirit result out of having the Spirit.

Some people confuse the issue of works and faith. Sounds like you know what your talking about. Thanks for clarifying that for me. Faith is important, and works are important also.

 

[Brakelite]

James is a Jewish-Christian...He is still doing things that are Jewish. (Mosaic Law and Saturday Sabbath) Paul will say that we are not of the Law or under the law. You will never read James doing that. For a time he was the leader of the Apostles and being a Jewish-Christian he believed in observing the Mosaic Law. That is one of the reasons that Peter and Paul had to meet with him to stop the requirement for the Gentiles to observe the Law in order to be Christians.

This topic is the most misunderstood in Christianity, and has led many into a lifestyle of disobedience to God Commandments. You appear (without any elaboration in your part) to also be confused regarding the "law". As you say, James and Paul appear to contradict each other on the matter of law. But only if you are confused as to what law each is talking about.

The big picture is that if Christianity is about a relationship with God, and a person does nothing, is that a relationship.

No.

Belief as the sole requirement for salvation....There are those that believe that...a thought that Christ is real. And continue on with your life as if nothing else happened? Nothing we do matters in regard to our salvation. Interesting thought and is totally embraced by the OSAS crowd.

I'm going to be bold here. He who does not have the faith to believe God can, and will, change one's life to a life of obedience and holiness, (overcoming sin) does not have the faith to enter God's kingdom.

So what is repentance...if not a change in our life? A do? A work?

The true gospel... The full gospel... Is a life changing experience. It's a work of God. But it requires cooperation. Which requires work.

 

[Brakelite]

Too deep?
Im writing too deeply.
That happens a lot, as i write spiritually quite a bit, vs, just writing milk.

That wasn't deep. I think G understood what you were saying, but just couldn't understand why and what it was you were trying to add to the conversation.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You appear to be saying that the Messiah rejected Jesus and rejected Christians and the New Testament

This is my statement concerning the Book of Matthew:
"This was a message to the Jews who were given the knowledge of God, like the Pharisees, but since the Messiah, through their history to the present, believed in and followed the OT scriptures only but rejected Jesus and rejected Christians and the NT."
Let's break it down.
1. MY follow up post addressed that Matthew was written for Jewish Christians and unbelieving Jews - who has the knowledge of God.
2. Unbelieving Jews contined (after Christ to this day) to follow OT scriptures and live by the Old Covenant Law.
3. The unbelieving Jews obviously reject Christians and the New Covenant.
It was a loaded run on and complex sentence - should have broken it up.

 

[Behold]

And, of course, this is because of your (continued) faith in Jesus and what He did for you on the Cross.
If you were to cease to have faith, you would lose salvation..

You are Still teaching "self saving" lies, typical of a devout legalist who refuses to Give CHRIST the Credit for saving His beloved and keeping them saved.
You are totally : Galatians 1:8

 

[Behold]

Do you really have that much an issue with Good Deeds....

The issue isn't "present your body a living sacrifice".
The issue is, teaching that this is required to stay saved, or that its required as a part of Salvation.

 

[Behold]

That wasn't deep. I think G understood what you were saying, but just couldn't understand why and what it was you were trying to add to the conversation.

God does not require our works to fulfill His Blood Atonement.
Once he/you understand this, then you can be free from Legalism.
Not until.

 

[Grailhunter]

You are Still teaching "self saving" lies, typical of a devout legalist who refuses to Give CHRIST the Credit for saving His beloved and keeping them saved.
You are totally : Galatians 1:8

Number one, people need to learn what a legalist is. What it is not, is someone that believes the whole Gospel. The idea, belief, that there is something wrong with believing in the whole Bible is just nutz!
Number two, there is no one here that is not giving Christ credit for salvation....is there a Ghost that I am not aware of? No one zero!
The objection is the belief that salvation has nothing to do with Christian character and the belief that evildoers will back heaven so full that God and good people will have to leave.

 

[Grailhunter]

The issue isn't "present your body a living sacrifice".
The issue is, teaching that this is required to stay saved, or that its required as a part of Salvation.

You are coming up with arguments to debate yourself. If your going to that just reply to yourself.
No one here is saying that Good Deed saves anybody... You are pulling this out of thin air.
It is about evil and beliefs that send people done a path that leads to hell.
It is about the belief that salvation and Grace is a license to sin and still go to heaven.
It is about thinking that Christ is so stupid that He is not going to notice. That He is going to let someone use His good Grace to live a life of evil, and reward that with heaven.
At the most basic level this is a direct insult to Christ.

 

[Behold]

Number two, there is no one here that is not giving Christ credit for salvation...

You obviously have no idea what a Legalist is, or how they think.
You should do a quick search of about 10 Threads i posted, that explain how to spot a Legalist and how to protect yourself from them.

So, what the legalist teaches is very conning. Its a spiritual con job.
Its a mixture of truth and untruth, and that is why it can deceive you, unless you are grounded in this verse. Hebrews 13:9.

See, a devil led heretic, this Legalist, will teach...."yes, Christ SAVED ME but now i have to .....do, do, hold on, endure, and i have to be be sure to NOT DO......>" And they have their list.
THat LIST is Christ Denying, Cross Rejecting, = Self Righteous works.

Let me show you how justbyfaith, and wrangler, and ferris bueller, who are all devout legalists, will teach their false gospel.

Listen.. to them...

"yes, Jesus saved me, but now i have to...........>"

"now i have to".... "now i have to"....>Me me me, me, me, i have to ....."

"Now i have to,,,,,finish what He started"........ and they will give you their self righteous LIST, of twisted verses, that that use to try to deceive, and prove their SELF EFFORT is keeping them saved.

They are all HOLDING ONTO something that is THEM DOING IT, and they all believe that if they stop doing it, they go to hell.

So that "IT" is their savior, and that "IT" is not Jesus The Christ.

 

[Behold]

You are coming up with arguments to debate yourself. If your going to that just reply to yourself.
.

Like i told you, i have no issue if you dont post to me.
You are not hear to listen, you are here to argue your carnal theology.
Why would that interest me?
So, run along, is my advice.

 

[Grailhunter]

You obviously have no idea what a Legalist is, or how they think.
You should do a quick search of about 10 Threads i posted, that explain how to spot a Legalist and how to protect yourself from them.

So, what the legalist teaches is very conning. Its a spiritual con job.
Its a mixture of truth and untruth, and that is why it can deceive you, unless you are grounded in this verse. Hebrews 13:9.

See, a devil led heretic, this Legalist, will teach...."yes, Christ SAVED ME but now i have to .....do, do, hold on, endure, and i have to be be sure to NOT DO......>" And they have their list.
THat LIST is Christ Denying, Cross Rejecting, = Self Righteous works.

Let me show you how justbyfaith, and wrangler, and ferris bueller, who are all devout legalists, will teach their false gospel.

Listen.. to them...

"yes, Jesus saved me, but now i have to...........>"

"now i have to".... "now i have to"....>Me me me, me, me, i have to ....."

"Now i have to,,,,,finish what He started"........ and they will give you their self righteous LIST, of twisted verses, that that use to try to deceive, and prove their SELF EFFORT is keeping them saved.

They are all HOLDING ONTO something that is THEM DOING IT, and they all believe that if they stop doing it, they go to hell.

So that "IT" is their savior, and that "IT" is not Jesus The Christ.

Whatever you got running around in your head as to what a legalist is, it is messed up
The Bible is not a legalist...quoting from the Bible is not a form of legalism.
The issue with you and the others is that you just don't like the Bible.
It is a thorn in your side that you have to keep explaining away so you can sin in good conscience.
The Bible offend you and you carefully edit the Gospels looking only for those scriptures that tickle your ear.
Some sort of twist desire to believe that Grace is a license to sin.
Some how is it that you believe that it is the devil that wants people to be good? How nutz is that?
In order to have some understanding of Christianity, you have to read and believe the whole Gospel.
You are effectively a condemner of morality. And a preacher of sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

JBF I am all about new discoveries, but as far as justification and Old Covenant people going to heaven you will need better scriptures.

I think that the scriptures that I have given are adequate to show that Old Testament saints did indeed go to heaven.

This us my statement concerning the Book of Matthew:
"This was a message to the Jews who were given the knowledge of God, like the Pharisees, but since the Messiah, through their history to the present, believed in and followed the OT scriptures only but rejected Jesus and rejected Christians and the NT."
Let's break it down.
1. MY follow up post addressed that Matthew was written for Jewish Christians and unbelieving Jews - who has the knowledge of God.
2. Unbelieving Jews contined (after Christ to this day) to follow OT scriptures and live by the Old Covenant Law.
3. The unbelieving Jews obviously reject Christians and the New Covenant.
It was a loaded run on and complex sentence - should have broken it up.

Ok. Thanks for making that clearer.

You are Still teaching "self saving" lies, typical of a devout legalist who refuses to Give CHRIST the Credit for saving His beloved and keeping them saved.
You are totally : Galatians 1:8

Nope.

Let me show you how justbyfaith, and wrangler, and ferris bueller, who are all devout legalists, will teach their false gospel.

Listen.. to them...

"yes, Jesus saved me, but now i have to...........>"

"now i have to".... "now i have to"....>Me me me, me, me, i have to ....."

"Now i have to,,,,,finish what He started"........ and they will give you their self righteous LIST, of twisted verses, that that use to try to deceive, and prove their SELF EFFORT is keeping them saved.

They are all HOLDING ONTO something that is THEM DOING IT, and they all believe that if they stop doing it, they go to hell.

So that "IT" is their savior, and that "IT" is not Jesus The Christ.

Of course, the Bible teaches us that if we don't continue in His goodness, we will be "cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).

That is not my teaching, that is the Bible's teaching.

You really do think that the Bible is twisted, don't you? And verses in it?

It should be clear that holy scripture teaches us that he who does the will of God abideth for ever (1 John 2:17); and that the one who abideth in Christ sinneth not (1 John 3:6).

It is also the anointing of the Holy Ghost that teaches us to abide in Christ (1 John 2:27).

So, what I am saying is that Christ came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21), and to redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:14-15).

Christ and His work on the Cross is the remedy for a lifestyle of sin...it delivers us from the power and practice of sin and not just the penalty.

 

[Grailhunter]

A lot of this has to do with social acceptance, but also want. I have a speech on this somewhere. You have to be careful about what you want and how bad you want it...the Bible calls it covet and warns against it. Want-covetousness is the driving force for so much sin, and particularly sinful lifestyles. There is something they want to do, that is so important to them that regardless of what the Bible says against it, they are going to do it. Even argue that they can do it and still get to heaven.

First off you cannot get saved with this concept, you cannot repent something that you intend to do. The emotions regarding whatever it is they want to do, is so strong, that they will condemn anyone that quotes scriptures regarding sin or speaks of morality. If you quote scriptures regarding sin and morality, you are a hateful legalist, because it is like shooting them through the heart.

I don't think it is about thievery or adultery or cussing. I think what motivates people to OSAS and or this new denomination is either drugs or sexual immorality...themselves or loved ones. No one likes the idea of their children going to hell. They look at Christianity as an insurance policy. It is important to them that Christianity protects them and their loved ones from what they want to do.

Then again, most do not need to believe this OSAS, they live a pretty good life, but have a want for absolute security.

 

[Grailhunter]

I think that the scriptures that I have given are adequate to show that Old Testament saints did indeed go to heaven.

I will just say that there are worst beliefs. We cannot change it either way.

 

[Riverwalker]

There is nothing you can do to earn your salvation. Works do not save
Grace saves. Through faith....not of works should anyone boast

Are works important....yes
Are works Necessary. In the way that an apple tree bears apples. Yes. It is the nature of a Christian to do good works
Works follow salvation, they do not cause it.

Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Brakelite]

God does not require our works to fulfill His Blood Atonement

I agree. Always have.

Once he/you understand this, then you can be free from Legalism.
Not until.

In the OT Israel was called to live by faith... The just shall live by faith is an old testament requirement...I suppose though you think Jesus was a legalist for giving them commandments to obey.

 

[Behold]

I agree. Always have.

In the OT Israel was cashed to live by faith... The just shall live by faith is an old testament requirement...I suppose though you think Jesus was a legalist for giving them commandments to obey.

The OT is abolished, regarding the born again.
IT has been replaced by the NT.
The old covenant, of sacrificing animals, could not eternally atone for your sin, or make you righteous.
The New Covenant, (The New Testament) is the blood of Jesus.
This blood, which is God's Blood, is a one time sacrifice that has redeemed all the sin of the world....for every person, since the Cross was raised and Jesus died, AND THEN Rose again.
Since that event, God's reconciliation for each person born, has been AVAILABLE.

'All that call on the name of JESUS, shall be saved".
"as many as Believe in ME, (Jesus), i give unto them ETERNAL LIFE and they shall NEVER PERISH"

 

[Brakelite]

The OT is abolished, regarding the born again.
IT has been replaced by the NT.
The old covenant, of sacrificing animals, could not eternally atone for your sin, or make you righteous.
The New Covenant, (The New Testament) is the blood of Jesus.
This blood, which is God's Blood, is a one time sacrifice that has redeemed all the sin of the world....for every person, since the Cross was raised and Jesus died, AND THEN Rose again.
Since that event, God's reconciliation for each person born, has been AVAILABLE.

'All that call on the name of JESUS, shall be saved".
"as many as Believe in ME, (Jesus), i give unto them ETERNAL LIFE and they shall NEVER PERISH"

The OT is abolished? So scriptures like ummm...
Isaiah 8:20 are now irrelevant... Abolished?

Is this talking about OT or NT? Or both?

 

[Brakelite]

The OT is abolished, regarding the born again.
IT has been replaced by the NT.
The old covenant, of sacrificing animals, could not eternally atone for your sin, or make you righteous.
The New Covenant, (The New Testament) is the blood of Jesus.
This blood, which is God's Blood, is a one time sacrifice that has redeemed all the sin of the world....for every person, since the Cross was raised and Jesus died, AND THEN Rose again.
Since that event, God's reconciliation for each person born, has been AVAILABLE.

'All that call on the name of JESUS, shall be saved".
"as many as Believe in ME, (Jesus), i give unto them ETERNAL LIFE and they shall NEVER PERISH"

I guess Jesus was out of line here then seeing He was teaching from the OT...

KJV Luke 24:25-27
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.