The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

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Enoch111

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I don't know if the Ten are included in the 613 or not. I just know people say there are 613 laws. What I do know is the law is a single entity, not two.
Since Paul says that every law is included in the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself (Rom 13:9,10), and Christ made this one of the two greatest commandments (upon which all the Law and the Prophets are based, and which sum up the ten) then all 613 laws are indeed included in that one commandment. [Note: It was the rabbi Maimonides (Ramban) who stated that there were 613 commandments in the Torah]

Regarding the Sabbath, very few on either side are willing to admit that the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week, or the eighth day -- is in fact the Christian Sabbath, since it meets all the requirements of that commandment if observed properly. While the 7th day was given to Israel, it also separates unbelieving Jews from believing Christians today (and has done so for 2,000 years). And Paul has already told us that the sabbaths (literally "rests") were "shadows". They are to be considered as shadows of the perfect rest that every believer has in Christ, since all those who come to Christ rest solely in Him and His finished work of redemption, as noted in Hebrews.

Furthermore, as we see from the history of Israel, the Jews were (a) not observing the weekly sabbath as commanded, and (b) had changed the meaning of the sabbath to become burdensome. So Christ deliberately chose to heal on Sabbath days to teach them a lesson about doing good works on the Sabbath. (Are Sabbatarians doing good works on Sabbath days?) The religious leaders of the Jews claimed that Christ was breaking the Law, but that was not true. In any event they used this as a reason to plot His death.

Also, as we go through the New Testament, we do not see Christians observing the Sabbath after Pentecost. But we do see them observing the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week, the day on which Christ rose from the dead, hence its tremendous significance. God rested from His creative works on the 7th day, and Christ established His redemptive work on the 8th day. Therefore we enter into His eternal rest.
 

Ferris Bueller

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You intentionally omitted a vital part of Colossians 2.
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Colossians 2 MOUNCE;NIV - For I want you to know how great a - Bible Gateway
I omitted that part because I'm not making a point about that. I'm focusing in on the part about sabbath days being shadows, not the reality itself. A lot of people here are saying the literal sabbaths are the reality and not shadows.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Since Paul says that every law is included in the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself (Rom 13:9,10), and Christ made this one of the two greatest commandments (upon which all the Law and the Prophets are based, and which sum up the ten) then all 613 laws are indeed included in that one commandment. [Note: It was the rabbi Maimonides (Ramban) who stated that there were 613 commandments in the Torah]

Regarding the Sabbath, very few on either side are willing to admit that the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week, or the eighth day -- is in fact the Christian Sabbath, since it meets all the requirements of that commandment if observed properly. While the 7th day was given to Israel, it also separates unbelieving Jews from believing Christians today (and has done so for 2,000 years). And Paul has already told us that the sabbaths (literally "rests") were "shadows". They are to be considered as shadows of the perfect rest that every believer has in Christ, since all those who come to Christ rest solely in Him and His finished work of redemption, as noted in Hebrews.

Furthermore, as we see from the history of Israel, the Jews were (a) not observing the weekly sabbath as commanded, and (b) had changed the meaning of the sabbath to become burdensome. So Christ deliberately chose to heal on Sabbath days to teach them a lesson about doing good works on the Sabbath. (Are Sabbatarians doing good works on Sabbath days?) The religious leaders of the Jews claimed that Christ was breaking the Law, but that was not true. In any event they used this as a reason to plot His death.

Also, as we go through the New Testament, we do not see Christians observing the Sabbath after Pentecost. But we do see them observing the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week, the day on which Christ rose from the dead, hence its tremendous significance. God rested from His creative works on the 7th day, and Christ established His redemptive work on the 8th day. Therefore we enter into His eternal rest.
I'm not convinced that the change from the 7th day to the 8th is God's doing. History shows us the Catholics were always bashing the Jewish observances and establishing their own competing holy days. And not for legitimate, spiritual reasons. But, since literal sabbath observance is a shadow and not the reality I don't think it really matters. As you point out, the reality that the sabbath shadow represented is rest in Christ and our deliverance from the taskmaster and slavery of the flesh.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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The only laws spoken by God on Mt. Sinai were the 10 Commandments found in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21.
No, God spoke additional laws immediately following the Ten, starting at Exodus 20:24. The Lord said to Moses, "These are the laws you are to set before them" Exodus 21:1. Moses wrote down what the Lord said: "Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said." (Exodus 24:4). And this is before God gave Moses the actual Tablets of the Testimony, the Ten Commandments (Exodus 24:12-13).

Moses and Joshua went up on the mountain and stayed there on the mountain for forty days and forty nights during which time God gave him the instructions on how to construct the temple (Exodus 25:1 through Exodus 31:18) and gave him the Tablets. Then the Lord was done talking to Moses on the mountain (Exodus 31:18). He goes back down to the people and we have the incident with the golden calf and the Tablets are broken. Moses intercedes for them. Then he goes back up the mountain to receive the replacement set of Tablets, and the Lord gives him more instruction on how to build the temple. It's an interesting read.
 
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Oceanprayers

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I omitted that part because I'm not making a point about that. I'm focusing in on the part about sabbath days being shadows, not the reality itself. A lot of people here are saying the literal sabbaths are the reality and not shadows.
I would suggest you consider Your omission misses the whole point of the messages. The shadows of things to come.
Shadows aren't wraith of the past. Shadows exist because manifest reality and the sun-son unite.
 

VictoryinJesus

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The ones that we have to literally keep are the ones that address how we are to treat each other. Don't have differing weights. Don't show favoritism. Laws of property and restitution, etc.

One of the most damaging (because I’ve experienced it) is don’t show favoritism. We do this with our children sometimes. Like I’ve shared I’ve experienced it and the damage of favoritism, Being guilty of it. But not only with our children …if don’t show favoritism is one we literally must keep, then if we are being honest, how are we doing on the not showing favoritism? Favoritism is everywhere even here on the board? How do we keep from not being partial or how do we not be a respecter of persons? James 2:8-10 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
 
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GEN2REV

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You quoted: now therefore heathen, O Israel, unto the statues and unto the judgements, which I teach you
But as touching brotherly love you need not that I write unto you: for you yourselves are taught of God …consider what statues and unto what judgments?… to love one another. 1 Thessalonians 4:9




And shall be obedient unto His voice? What does His voice say?
They heard His voice give the 10 Commandments at Sinai.
 

Robert Gwin

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The Lord's Day is in fact the Christian Sabbath. So that commandment still applies.

Paul very clearly stated: (Colossians 2:16, 17) . . .do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. 17 Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.

I would like to ask you two questions Enoch, do you observe the Sabbath? Are you willing to accept the consequences of disobeying that commandment? Awaiting your reply sir.
 

GEN2REV

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Also, as we go through the New Testament, we do not see Christians observing the Sabbath after Pentecost. But we do see them observing the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week, the day on which Christ rose from the dead, hence its tremendous significance. God rested from His creative works on the 7th day, and Christ established His redemptive work on the 8th day. Therefore we enter into His eternal rest.
It's a common myth that there's nothing about observation of the Sabbath in the NT.

All those helping prep Jesus' body for burial stopped their activities to observe the Sabbath and return after it.
This was after Jesus' death on the cross. Why were they still observing the Sabbath if He'd intended for them to stop?
John 19:31
Luke 23:56

Paul and Barnabas preached in the synagogue on the Sabbath day; immediately after, the gentiles asked them to return and preach to them again the following Sabbath. Why didn't they just return the next day, Sunday the 1st day of the week? Because Sunday, the 1st day, is not recognized anywhere in scripture as being significant to Christianity.
Acts 13:42

This is the only example that is ever used to claim that the 1st day of the week is significant; it is the day that Paul preached to the disciples when they broke bread. Breaking bread in the Bible is not Communion, it is a common meal. He preached to them until midnight which would have been about 6 hours beyond the 1st day of the week, after the sun had gone down that is. The reality is there is nothing significant there about the 1st day of the week at all.
Acts 20:7

And I'll add once again this verse that shows Paul was a keeper of the Law, the 10 Commandments. That means He was a Sabbath-keeper.
Acts 21:24
 
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quietthinker

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The 10 Commandments are FOREVER
did they exist prior to creation?
 

GEN2REV

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No, God spoke additional laws immediately following the Ten, starting at Exodus 20:24. The Lord said to Moses, "These are the laws you are to set before them" Exodus 21:1. Moses wrote down what the Lord said: "Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said." (Exodus 24:4). And this is before God gave Moses the actual Tablets of the Testimony, the Ten Commandments (Exodus 24:12-13).
Those were Sacrificial Ordinances, not the 10 Commandments Law. Those expired at the Cross when Jesus became the perfect sacrifice. It is very clear in scripture that those have expired.

The 10 Commandments will never expire.

"... God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love Him and keep His Commandments to a thousand generations; ..."
Deuteronomy 7:9

So, let's see. Personally, I'd say a Biblical generation is longer, but Google says it is 35 years.

Ok, 35 times a thousand equals ... 35,000 years.

That's how long God intends us to keep His 10 Commandments at a minimum. I'd say we're still within that timeframe.
 

Robert Gwin

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It is a part of the Ten. God did not put a ceremonial law into the 10. You do what you want.

Yes maam, it is part of the 10, and we teach the other nine is still part of Christian law. May I ask if you observe the Sabbath, and are you willing to accept the punishment for violating it?
 

Robert Gwin

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You'll have to use scripture to make that case, Rob, and it will have to be scripture that contradicts the verses provided in the OP.
Thanks Gen for asking. We base our not observing the Sabbath on this passage:
(Colossians 2:16, 17) . . .do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. 17 Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.
We believe the Sabbath died with Jesus. May I ask do you observe the Sabbath, and if you do are you willing to accept the consequences for disobeying it?
 

GEN2REV

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Thanks Gen for asking. We base our not observing the Sabbath on this passage:
(Colossians 2:16, 17) . . .do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. 17 Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.
We believe the Sabbath died with Jesus. May I ask do you observe the Sabbath, and if you do are you willing to accept the consequences for disobeying it?
Yes, that passage is grounded in verse 14 which sets the theme for what is being discussed there.

It's discussing the Ceremonial Ordinances.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and it took it out of the way, nailing it to the Cross;"
Colossians 2:14

None of the 10 Commandments are contrary, or against, us.

Verse 16-17 says, paraphrasing, 'Let no man judge you in any of these sacrificial ordinances which Christ has done away with.' Those practices were a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice to come, but Christ is the actual substance, or final outcome/purpose thereof.
 

GEN2REV

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GEN2REV, if you could, post for me your interpretation of Colossians 2:16-23. It's an excellent passage with a great deal of bearing on the question at hand. I'll post some preceding verses as well, so more of the surrounding context is readily available.

God bless,
- H

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped away the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the midst, having nailed it to the cross. 15 And having stripped the rulers and authorities, He made a spectacle of them publicly, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the body of Christ. 18 Let no one rob you of your reward, delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, investigating into those things he has seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the elementary principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in will-driven worship, self-abasement, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
They were an opposing group (I believe they were Purist Jews - Pharisees/Sadducees?) who were saying the new converts had to get circumsized and obey all the Ceremonial Laws.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

Who are the 10 Commandments written to?
They are written to all God's Children.

Who are God's Children? Let's see.

God is a spirit. Those who worship Him (His Children) must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
John 4:24

Spiritual Israel are God's Children; NOT any physical/fleshly race - for "...they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:.."
Romans 9:8

Is God's Law a physical Law or a Spiritual Law?
"For we know that the Law is spiritual:..."
Romans 7:14

"Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, (those who do them and keep them may go to heaven.)...Ye shall not add unto (them), neither shall ye diminish (them)..., that ye might keep the Commandments of the Lord your God ..."
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

NOTE: this chapter speaks nothing of the Mosaic/Ceremonial laws. It is ONLY referring to the 10 Commandments which ARE God's Law.

"And He declared unto you ... Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on tables of stone."
Deuteronomy 4:13

And what if His Children stop obeying His Commandments?

"... the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen,..."
Deuteronomy 4:27

We are living this reality today. Scattered far and wide; few and far between among the nations.

"But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
(This next verse is PROOF POSITIVE that the Commandments are still valid to this very day.)
When thou art in tribulation , and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days(end times), if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice; (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God; ) He will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers(10 Commandments) which He sware unto them."
Deuteronomy 4:29-31

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalm 111:7-8

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalm 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6
Leviticus and Deuteronomy were specifically written to and for the chosen nation, Israel and not applicable to Christians.,The Jews were scattered throughout the world since 70 AD. AND they were regathered and brought back to their home since 1948.
The ten commandments were also given to them that they "might" keep them. They didn't. They were the test case for the world and failed. So Christ came and fulfilled the requirements of the Law for us and gave us Grace. We are under Grace and live with and practice abiding by the Law of Love now: Love God and love one another. All the laws fall under these two!
The Ten Commandments stand as a pillar of righteousness that we have all failed to keep. It shows us what sin is and therefore remains for all unbelievers to be judged with - unless they seek the Lord for forgiveness.
 
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GEN2REV

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Leviticus and Deuteronomy were specifically written to and for the chosen nation, Israel and not applicable to Christians.,The Jews were scattered throughout the world since 70 AD. AND they were regathered and brought back to their home since 1948.
The ten commandments were also given to them that they "might" keep them. They didn't. They were the test case for the world and failed. So Christ came and fulfilled the requirements of the Law for us and gave us Grace. We are under Grace and live with and practice abiding by the Law of Love now: Love God and love one another. All the laws fall under these two!
The Ten Commandments stand as a pillar of righteousness that we have all failed to keep. It shows us what sin is and therefore remains for all unbelievers to be judged with - unless they seek the Lord for forgiveness.
Did you read the OP, Ron?

All that was addressed.
 

Brakelite

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Regarding the Sabbath, very few on either side are willing to admit that the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week, or the eighth day -- is in fact the Christian Sabbath, since it meets all the requirements of that commandment if observed properly
Being an interpretation and commentary on scripture, that fails the acid test as far as authority is concerned. As much as I love you brother, I defer to the authority of God.

Also, as we go through the New Testament, we do not see Christians observing the Sabbath after Pentecost. But we do see them observing the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week, the day on which Christ rose from the dead
Then you haven't read the NT. Such an observation as above is astounding.
 
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