The Pre-Trib Rapture

marks said:

Whether "wife" here is the church in heaven, as many think, or Israel on earth, as I think, the same consideration would apply, yes, that this is a mixed group being called by a feminine gender.

In this instance, wife is singular, the people are being treated as a single unit according to the role of wife. In the 144,000, "servants of God" is plural, treating them as a collection of people. The ones being sealed is also plural, and so on, so the operation of the pronouns are slightly different.

This is my understanding, and I do know that genders in the words gets tricky to understand sometimes, and I'm truly not the expert. I'm aware of places that simply carry the natural gender of the word, "soul" is a feminine gender word and is used that way even speaking of men, for instance.

As far as identifying who these sealed ones are, I rely more on the overall description of them, acknowledging that there could be a way to understand the text to include both men and women, though I don't think that is so.

That they are Jews, that they are 12,000 from each of 12 tribes, to me does not seem disputable.

Much love!

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Thanks again

But it is disputable because its not actually the 12 tribes

David H. said:

Ok I think I understand how you explain away the Olivet discourse problem, and that is to say Christ was jumping around and answeringthe questions in no particular order. Correct?

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Correct since He did not really address the first question about when the Temple He was just talking about, was going to be thrown down. When you acknowledge that the Olivet Discourse does not end in Matthew 24th chapter but in Matthew 25th chapter, then you have to wonder about the following events when you believes it ends in the 24th chapter. Indeed, Matthew 25:1-13 is addressing how ten virgins are the kingdom of Heaven but five were foolish in being out to the market getting oil to be filled & missed the Bridegroom for not being ready & yet still part of the kingdom.

So His warnings to the churches in Revelation was to be ready or else as one church was warned it would be cast into the bed of the great tribulation.

Wisdom from the Lord is needed to see the truth in His words in discerning His answers to those 3 questions put forth by His disciples.

For me personally i take Christ at his word that he was describing events in the order they occurred, and the simplicity of this is that he is describing the end of the age as a birthing process. first you have birth pangs which occur over time, which for me is the entire church age which is the general tribulation of which John says he himself was a partaker in (Revelation 1:9) Then comes the water breaks (Abomination) and you have Great tribulation, and then after that the sorrow turns to joy with the Birth of the child.

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I consider the water break as the rapture event when God judges His House first for why those that did not heed His words to be ready, as found not abiding in Him, will be excommunicated from the Marriage Supper held in Heaven, to die on earth for when the beast makes war on the saints to kill with the sword and hunger, for then the saints' spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven, awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation.

Sorrow turns to joy when after the rapture, the 144,000 Witnesses, new believers, that were Jews, becomes the new dispensational church for the duration of the great tribulation; not counting the wo witnesses in Jerusalem which I believe is Enoch & Elijah.

Thanks for sharing.

marks said:

These times, of necessity, must be exclusive of each other. During the time of the witnesses, no one is able to harm them. During the time of the beast, he is given to make war with and overcome all the saints.

"No one can kill them, and this guy kills them." That makes no sense. No one can kill them until their time is over. When their time is over, they are killed by the one who has been given to make war and overcome.

If these 42 month times are concurrent, the witnesses are immune, but their not. It's a contradiction on it's face.

Revelation 11:5 KJV
5) And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Revelation 13:5 KJV
5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 11:7 KJV
7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 13:7 KJV
7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

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It is not a man...man of sin etc. that kills the two witnesses but rather the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit (Aka Abaddon a fallen angel.). The bottomless pit is not opened until the fifth trumpet. The two witnesses stand in opposition to the man of sin who claims to be God. They by their plagues will show that he is not God and in turn will be demonized and blamed for the plagues.

marks said:

You'd have to be more specific.

This kind of generalized, "covered up or explained away" is just loose badmouthing, or so it seems to me.

Much love!

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By covered up and explained away, I am referring to the left behind being called the tribulation saints.... those deemed unworthy and left behind all of a sudden are the saints.
By covered up and explained away I am referring to all the attempts to change the meaning of apostacy to mean "departure" in 2 Thessalonians 2:2 in order to maintain the immanence of the pre trib rapture view, but in so doing make Paul's statement there a redundant contradiction.
By Covered up and explained away I am referring to the plain reading of Matthew 24 which has the rapture occur AFTER the Great tribulation, using concepts such as that referring to armageddon, or someone here who said Jesus was not answering the questions posed by the apostles in order, but why then say "immediately after the tribulation of those days"?
There are literally hundreds of these cover ups or explained away contradictions in the pre trib view. My View has none, and no added parenthesis to Revelation, not even Revelation 12, because this starts a new vision which begins with the death of Christ. With my view comes a right understanding of the TWO women in Revelation 12, and what becomes of both of them in the final week, something the pretribbers have not even seen or grasped. The view I hold explains who the saints are and their relation to these "women". I could go on here but rther than come off as "cocky" I would rather try and show these to those who are capable of hearing.

marks said:

When I consider the Rapture of the Church, and when it might occur, I find a couple of things seem to hold true.

One is that there is no place that just says, it happens then, you can only know through the process of elimination.

Another is, after you've ruled out everything it can't be, the only option left is PreTrib.

One more . . . the more likely someone is to call something "symbolic", for instance, the 144,000 sealed Jews, the more likely someone is to call these things symbolic, the less likely to hold to pre-trib timing. The more literally Scripture is taken, the more likely someone will be pre-trib. These seem to go hand in hand.

If Jesus comes and first gathers Israel, and then gathers the nations to be judged according as He said, the church has to already be gone from the earth when the great tribulation begins.

If the Revelation is prophetic narrative, and when it says this happens and then that happens, that's the way it is, the church must be gone before any of the trumpets and bowls.

So to continue the one example . . . "the servant of God were sealed", John heard the number, 144,000, all Jewish men. No gentiles there, no women, and only 144 thousand of them. No church present on the earth.

Much love!

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What you are witnessing is the difficulty that people have with understanding (or converting) the difference between a life of time according to the world, compared with the timeless truth of those things written in the scriptures according to an eternal God.

Those different possible scenarios and theories taught by most teachers, are just that--theories. They are not even according to scripture...not all of scripture anyway, just parts of it, plus a bunch of conjecture.

Still, they do not represent the truth according to the ways of God. Meanwhile, all the information is in the scriptures. But it is just as it is written: "seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

The context and subject are rapturous...but the experience is not called or referred to as "the rapture" in the scriptures. That is the teachings of men. And each persons conjecture (guess) begins with not understanding one or more pieces of the scriptures. From there they are forced to move the idea of when things occur forward, one misunderstanding upon another, until all of Christendom has now come to believe that it is a mass one-time event at some unknown time in the future. Which is totally wrong. That rather, is the mass trash heap of failed conjectures of men.

Called by its proper, biblical name according to Jesus, and the context and subject, is rather the coming of "the kingdom of God."

Jesus spoke of the kingdom of God, saying, it "is like", giving many examples. And the timing of when? He told the learned Pharisees, "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you." Meaning, the so-called "rapture" began with some of that generation of Jesus' time, which he referred to as "this generation"...which the push-it-off-to-some-future-time peddlers have also not understood, nor even heard.

Jesus, then clarified how the kingdom would come, saying, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation." Also not acknowledged by the push-it-off-to-the-future crowd.

Jesus even told his disciples and apostles, “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now." And most still can't.

Nonetheless, Paul, continues on saying "for me to live is Christ" fulfilling Jesus' promise to send another Helper via the Holy Spirit, and continued where Jesus left off and explained the coming of the kingdom of God further, saying it is not a mass, one-time event as so many believe, "But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming." 1 Corinthians 15:23 Still, they do not hear.

That one passage alone ought to clear the whole thing up--I mean, it spells it out soooo clearly:

1. [First] "Christ the firstfruits"
2. [After Christ] "afterward those who are Christ's at His coming"
3. [Individually] "each in his own order"

...But, but, but..."afterward" that's gotta mean a "a massive, one-time event in the distant future", right??

Well, "afterward" might be kinda vague, but come on, Jesus said it "has come." And then the details are filled in again by Jesus, saying when "afterward", when "each in his own order", as, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

When? When and if anyone "hears" His voice.

In a mass future event?? No! But, "each in his own order."

Where "every eye in the world can see???" No! Not "with observation."

But, but, but, what about "every eye shall see???" ...Not in the world, but only before God.

Christ4Me said:

Correct since He did not really address the first question about when the Temple He was just talking about, was going to be thrown down. When you acknowledge that the Olivet Discourse does not end in Matthew 24th chapter but in Matthew 25th chapter, then you have to wonder about the following events when you believes it ends in the 24th chapter. Indeed, Matthew 25:1-13 is addressing how ten virgins are the kingdom of Heaven but five were foolish in being out to the market getting oil to be filled & missed the Bridegroom for not being ready & yet still part of the kingdom.

So His warnings to the churches in Revelation was to be ready or else as one church was warned it would be cast into the bed of the great tribulation.

Wisdom from the Lord is needed to see the truth in His words in discerning His answers to those 3 questions put forth by His disciples.

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see a plain reading of the text shows that this is not true, because Jesus connects each part of prophecy to the other... for example:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days (Great tribulation as referred to in verse 21) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.(Matthew 24:29-31) (All one paragraph)

Do You see it? the rapture comes after the great tribulation. This is the plain reading of the text that shows this. Just like the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom precedes the abomination, and that abomination marks the beginning of the end in verse 14-15. Not to mention the plain and easily understood concept of childbirth Jesus uses of birth pains leading to the abomination and the great tribulation of birth and the sorrow turning to joy of the childbirth, which mirrors the Hebrew fall feasts exactly.

I Have read all kinds of "explanations" for this from pretribbers, all of which betray the simple reading of the text.

David H. said:

Do You see it? the rapture comes after the great tribulation.

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You are reading into "elect" something which does not pertain to the Church. Have you asked yourself how totally absurd it would be if the Bible says that Christ comes WITH His saints and angels after the Great Tribulation, yet they are being collected from all over the world by angels after He arrives? And there is no way that they will be present for the Marriage of the Lamb prior to His coming?

Enoch111 said:

You are reading into "elect" something which does not pertain to the Church. Have you asked yourself how totally absurd it would be if the Bible says that Christ comes WITH His saints and angels after the Great Tribulation, yet they are being collected from all over the world by angels after He arrives? And there is no way that they will be present for the Marriage of the Lamb prior to His coming?

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The marriage is after his coming just like in Jewish wedding tradition. Elect in the NT is always the church.

ewq1938 said:

The marriage is after his coming just like in Jewish wedding tradition. Elect in the NT is always the church.

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You just CONTRADICTED Revelation 19!

Keraz said:

We know from Revelation 20:4-5, that the only dead in Christ, who will be raised when Jesus Returns; will be those who - for the sake of God's word and their witness to Jesus, had been beheaded....during the 3 1/2 year period of world Satanic control.
The rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the thousand years have ended.

As for a 'rapture', that 'harparzo' is not to heaven, but to where Jesus is; in the clouds and then in Jerusalem. Acts 1:11, Zechariah 14:3
A horizontal transportation, on the Day Jesus comes down from heaven to commence His Millennium reign.

The Seventh Trumpet; Revelation 10:7 and Revelation 11:15-19; says nothing about humans going to heaven, or anywhere at that time.
Thinking the Bible means something that it doesn't actually say; is a bad mistake and leads to high expectations, that may cause a loss of faith as dramatic events happen.

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I think that quite a few are slipping on
church-ianity's banana peel.

Jesus Himself, as well as the Apostles, never said that we would meet Him in the clouds/air, and then descend back down to this old earth, to that rock heep of a place of Jerusalem that now is.

So then, the question remains: where is Jesus NOW?
Acts.7[55] But he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
[56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Heb.1[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

John.14[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1 Thes. 4
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Are those words a comfort to you, or would you prefer to be back here, in old Jerusalem, on old planet earth?
Think it through people.....with the mind of Christ, that is, if you are "Born Again of His Spirit".
Cont'd.-

Enoch111 said:

You just CONTRADICTED Revelation 19!

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No, I didn't. Revelation is in chronological order in some places, and not in some places. The first part of Revelation 19 happens after the events of the second part of the chapter. Same thing in Revelation 14 where it starts out with Christ being with the 144k yet the chapter ends with an analogy of the rapture as a harvest.

David H. said:

see a plain reading of the text shows that this is not true, because Jesus connects each part of prophecy to the other... for example:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

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11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Let me ask you this; who is preaching the gospel of the kingdom in all the world when Jesus just gave a bad sign of how bad the church will be before that is done? How can verse 14 realistically happen if verses 11-13 just puts the church in apostasy?

Then I ask you, of those enduring to the end, shall be saved from what? I'd say He is jumping around here especially when He goes to that abomination of desolation. Preterists like to claim that was Him talking about when that Temple will be thrown down & supposedly the leader of that army supposedly desecrated that Temple before destroying it in 70 A.D. But not everything regarding His words had happened for why it should be considered a double prophesy like the ones in the O.T. where it happened but it fully happened in the future hitting all the guideposts.

As it is, when did He tell His disciples when that Temple would be thrown down except in Matthew 24:15-22?

Then He went into that warning again about how bad it will before the great tribulation about the false prophets in Matthew 24:23-28. It is happening now when they promote the movement of what they claim is the Holy Spirit moving in Toronto's Blessings or Pensacola Outpouring or slain in the spirit or the holy laughter movement as the Spirit of Christ is there or here, when He has been in us since salvation.

Then you have your reference below as taken out of quote so we can read but I am including the 2 verses before that.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days (Great tribulation as referred to in verse 21) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.(Matthew 24:29-31) (All one paragraph)

The reason I am pointing this out is that verse 28 is referring to the rapture event which was to happen after the tribulation of those days of the great falling away from the faith and then He gets into it how everyone will see the sign of the Son of man in heaven when the elect are gathered.

Then He begins again about the signs of His appearing during the time of apostasy for why believers are to be ready in not suffering a thief to break thru. Matthew 24:32-44 If believers believe the lie that they can receive the "Holy Spirit" again apart from salvation, after a sign, God will permit that strong delusion to occur as the restraining power of the holy Spirit in them, will be taken out of the way for those other spirits to move in in causing them to fall like in "slain in the spirit" and "holy laughter movement" and "another baptism with the Holy Ghost by that sign of tongues". 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 & 2 Thessalonians 2:7 & 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 with the reproof found in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

Paul jumped around there also going between the 2 major events, the falling away from the faith which is to happen first and then the great tribulation with that son of perdition as he touched on that iniquity happening even in his day per 2 Thessalonians 2:7 & what was happening in verses 9-12. in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 he commands us to withdraw from those that refuse to repent as they are disorderly and no longer following the tradition taught of us as explained in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 as there is no other time we will receive he holy Spirit except at our salvation moment when we first believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

The irony here is that in withdrawing from them, we are to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still, because they still are for He shall lose none of all the father has given Him but yet He will deny Him for being in that iniquity that denies Him & that is why God is judging His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture. 1 Peter 4:17

Getting back to Matthew 24:32-44, Jesus describes a time when a believer will be working in the field when he is taken. Do you really believe at the end of the great tribulation, a believer will be working in the field during this war on the saints to kill them with sword & hunger? And for Jesus to refer to wars and rumors of war when there will only be one big fat one where all the world's armies are marching unto Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation when the King of kings comes back to defend that city shows the warnings to be ready are for the times we are living in now.

Matthew 24:45-51 is again warning believers to be ready or be cut asunder as in left behind when the Bridegroom comes.

Matthew 25:1-13 is warning believers again to be ready for the Bridegroom before He comes as the ten virgins are the kingdom of heaven but five were foolish, going out to the market to be filled with oil ( Holy Ghost ) hence the apostasy for why they were not ready for the marriage Supper with the Bridegroom but nevertheless they are still saved because they were part of the ten that are the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 25:14-30 again is about how the Bridegroom will judge His House first by how responsible they were with the talent they were given.

Matthew 25:31-46 is currently I am believing to be the Great White Throne Judgment.

Do You see it? the rapture comes after the great tribulation. This is the plain reading of the text that shows this. Just like the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom precedes the abomination, and that abomination marks the beginning of the end in verse 14-15. Not to mention the plain and easily understood concept of childbirth Jesus uses of birth pains leading to the abomination and the great tribulation of birth and the sorrow turning to joy of the childbirth, which mirrors the Hebrew fall feasts exactly.

I Have read all kinds of "explanations" for this from pretribbers, all of which betray the simple reading of the text.

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Well, I would give pause since reading about that worker in the field as if living in a time when he can earn money and not being hunted down to kill with the sword & starve by hunger because he needs the mark of the beast to buy & sell. That does not sound like what it will be for believers at the end of the great tribulation for why you should take pause.

Jesus describes the days we are living in now where people be eating and drinking marrying and given in marriage and knew not when they were taken so like a thief in the night, it will happen before the great tribulation comes.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Earburner said:

1 Thes. 4
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Are those words a comfort to you, or would you prefer to be back here, in old Jerusalem, on old planet earth?

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Yes. Christ comes to the clouds of the Earth to meet the raptured saints, then down further to Armageddon where he fights from the air. Only after the second coming events are finished does he step on the ground. Earth will be his forever home, with the Farther coming here as well after the New Heaven and new Earth takes place.

Enoch111 said:

You are reading into "elect" something which does not pertain to the Church. Have you asked yourself how totally absurd it would be if the Bible says that Christ comes WITH His saints and angels after the Great Tribulation, yet they are being collected from all over the world by angels after He arrives? And there is no way that they will be present for the Marriage of the Lamb prior to His coming?

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Your comment borders on the absurd here. You now have to change the meaning of the elect in order to explain this conflict and thereby take away one of the best passages to support the rapture to those who deny it.

ewq1938 said:

The marriage is after his coming just like in Jewish wedding tradition. Elect in the NT is always the church.

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Exactly.

David H. said:

Your comment borders on the absurd here. You now have to change the meaning of the elect in order to explain this conflict and thereby take away one of the best passages to support the rapture to those who deny it.

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Yep.

Mat_20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

chosen is the word eklektos (elect)


G1588

eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.
Total KJV occurrences: 23



Mat_24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

elect's is the word eklektos

G1588

eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.
Total KJV occurrences: 23



Since we know Mat_20:16 use of eklektos (elect) is about Christians, we also know the same word used in Mat_24:22 is also speaking of Christians, not non-Christians. We have Christ himself saying chosen Christian elect will be in the Great Tribulation.

^ To Keraz, cont'd:

As for Acts 1:11, Jesus return from Heaven will be in like manner....
The key word here is "manner", and not from where on earth.
So, what was the manner of His Ascension

[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is 1. taken up from you
2. into heaven,
3. shall so come in like manner
4. as ye have seen him go into heaven.
The under lined shall be THE MANNER OF His return, but in the reverse.

As for Zechariah 14:4 that has nothing to do with Jesus' return from Heaven, but had everything to do with His first appearance, which is described in verses 14:1-11.
Jesus spent His evenings and nights in the Mount of Olives, during His Ministry. Though He slept there, He certainly DID literally STAND in the mount of Olives, and often.
Luke.21[37] And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
Luke.22[39] And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.
John.8[1] Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

Zech. 14:5-11, is in reference to the "mountain" of Israel being divided, and Jesus Himself being
"the Valley", that they were to "flee to", of whom was to make that "one stick" out of Israel's division shown in Ezekiel 37:16-19.

People still don't seem to understand that there are two tribulations spoken of in scripture, one of satan which is the first followed by Christ which is the second

By Servant of God

Let's begin in Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy 4:29 but if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Deuteronomy 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice;

Deuteronomy 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful GOD): He will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which He sware unto them.

It's very important that you know there are two tribulations, not that there is only one which is commonly taught. The more tribulation you have, God will send you more comfort. God promises that when you have tribulation, seek Him and you shall find Him.

Now let's look at the first tribulation, and what brings it to pass. The first tribulation is the false messiah appearing on this earth first, to deceive all those that did not study God's letter. Revelation 12:7 is the reason and the cause of the first tribulation.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan deceives the whole earth, but not God's Elect. Talk about tribulation, that will bring it on you. In verse 9 you see some of his names and the roles he plays. But his main role is accuser. He accuses you before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Satan's name is death, documentation: Hebrews 2:14

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them, “Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

This is when Satan physically is cast out and appears in his role as false messiah, Anti Christ. he knows that he only has a short time, God shortened that time to 5 months - Revelation 9.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

It's a flood of lies to deceive people.

Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Now let's go to Mark 13

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate; but whatsoever shall be given you that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.

This is when God`s Elect are delivered up, in the hour of temptation. That's the purpose of many Christians in the end days, to allow the Holy Spirit to speak through you.

Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name`s sake; but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (Let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:

That's in Jerusalem, That's where Satan will set up his capital.

Mark 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house;

Mark 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

Mark 13:17 But woe ot them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Mark 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

When is harvest? Harvest time is in the summer not winter, so see that you are not harvested out of season.

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

The word affliction = tribulation.

Strong's # 2347
thlipsis, from 2346; pressure, ( Literally or figuratively); KJV—afflicted, anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.

Tribulation like there never was since the beginning to time.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved; but for the elect`s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, He is there; believe him not;

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:23 But take ye heed; behold, I have foretold you all things.

Now we come to the second tribulation, note it says after that tribulation.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Mark 13:25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

This is the second tribulation, at the 7th trump at the true Christ's return, this is God's tribulation.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 13:27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The four winds have to do with the moment of the end, That's the second tribulation, God's tribulation when the battle of Armageddon and Hamon-gog take place.

Those battles will not last 15 minutes, for we don't fight them, God fights those battles for us.

So there you have the two tribulations.

, Bible Study, theseason.org