Fall of the American Empire

popeye said:

Clay and iron are all that's described....indicating a central powerful ( iron ) nation aligned with one single other alliance or nation. Otherwise, the description in Daniel would have shown, iron mixed with miry clay and gravel and wet sand. You can't arbitrarily assign 3 nations to these divided toes. The number ten ( 10 toes ) is purposely mentioned for the average joe christian to equate with the 10 horns and crowns described later in The Rev.

What 3 nations of the security counsel are uprooted, and why? When they are uprooted, only 8 horns remain, which has nothing at all to do with the 7 heads / horns of Rev 12. And we know the 7 heads / horns of Rev 12 is DIRECTLY RELATED with the statement in Rev 17 about the 7 & 8 kings.

Keep in mind also that the dreadful beast has "teeth of iron, and nails of brass". If the feet of the Rev 13 beast are a bear's feet, then they have brass ( bronze? ) nails to boot. This means something.....

Just exactly how is the UN going to be "dreadful"?! Will it have a standing army? And how in the world is the UN "one of the seven"? Your 7 heads do not jive with the fact that in Rev 17 "5 have fallen, and one is"? You're saying the Revelation was written when Russia existed as a nation with a king? Hardly.

None of your 7 heads harmonize with Rev 17:10 & 11, period.....And it MUST! B) The beast with 7 heads & 7 crowns of Rev 12 is the Roman Empire, because that's who was the world power at the time of the birth of Christ.. And, just as the Rev was written during Rome's occupation of Palestine, the 7 headed beast MUST be associated with the 7 kings of Rev 17:10 & 11 because the 6th of those 7 kings existed during the writing of The Rev. There is no way around this. This is a simple and undeniable clue left for average joe's who know history just well enough ( from bible class, Christmas plays, Easter services, and H.S. ) that the Roman Empire was the world power at the time of the birth and death of Christ, at the time of the destruction of the temple, and at the time of the writing of The Rev..

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How can you guys completely miss the Rev.17:12-13 Scripture that the "ten horns" (ten kings) don't even BEGIN their rule until the second beast (a king) comes to power first??? The time for that has not even started yet today.

Furthermore, the Rev.17:12 verse tells us the "ten horns" are... 'ten kings', not ten superpowers, not ten nations, not ten members of a U.N. Security Council, etc. And, those ten kings come to power with the second beast, they all have ONE MIND, and give their power to the beast per Rev.17:13.

No nation of people is going to be left out of that "one world government" plan with the beast king as head over it. It's to encompass the whole earth, not just parts of it with nations that only possess nukes. The ten horns can just as easily mean the earth divided up into TEN SEPARATE REGIONS with those ten kings over them (some of this has actually already been documented as per the Club of Rome's 1972 ten region division).

veteran said:

... the "ten horns" are... 'ten kings', not ten superpowers, not ten nations, not ten members of a U.N. Security Council, etc. ... No nation of people is going to be left out of that "one world government" plan, ... It's to encompass the whole earth, not just parts of it with nations that only possess nukes.

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Ummmmmm, I hate to tell you this, but the Current & Nominated U.N. Permanent Security Council sum to 10:

Current Permanent Membership of the Security Council:
1. U.K.
2. U.S.
3. France
4. Russia
5. China

Nominated to Permanent Membership of the Security Council:
6. Germany -- economic power
7. Japan -- economic power
8. Brazil -- representative for S. America
9. Nigeria-- representative for Africa
10. India-- representative for the Near East

In addition, I would propose that this organization does not merely consist of the Security Council, but the membership body includes virtually EVERY nation on earth either by direct or indirect representation.

And per the above list, six of these are nuclear powers, the other four are NOT.

And finally, I believe the Lion/Eagle, Bear, & Leopard (3-superpowers) are not "10".






To All,

It would seem inherently dishonest for "Veteran" to misrepresent the facts as presented and defended. And Scripture and History DO agree with each other, in spite of some unfounded assertions to the contrary.



BibleScribe

BibleScribe said:

Current Permanent Membership of the Security Council:
1. U.K.
2. U.S.
3. France
4. Russia
5. China

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-- There has been talk of adding India to the Security Council, which makes perfect sense given its size, population and business impact on the world.

Since there is now a "European Union" a rep. from the Union should replace both France and the UK at the table.

Foreigner said:

-- There has been talk of adding India to the Security Council, which makes perfect sense given its size, population and business impact on the world.

Since there is now a "European Union" a rep. from the Union should replace both France and the UK at the table.

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Hi Foreigner,

You are correct in the legitimacy of including India, having cited that Nomination in my Posts.

Regarding the EU, I think you may be swayed in your expectations by the false "Revived Roman Empire" doctrine. As such, I would observe that there are many international alliances, including OPEC, African Unity, Union of South American Nations, the G10, etc., etc., etc. And where these each serve their individual objectives, the United Nations is a distinct organization which has it's four principle agencies including World Health Organization (WHO), the International Labor Organization (ILO), United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), and the International Atomic Energy Authority (IAEA).

As such, I would anticipate that the EU will not have any "nation status" in the United Nations. *shrug*



BibleScribe

You still don't get it biblescrib, the requirement for the manifesting of the ten kings of Rev.17 is WITH the beast king also described in that chapter who they don't begin to rule until he shows up.

So for that U.N. Security Council list to apply, that beast king, the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward who is to come working great signs and miracles in the sight of men on earth, MUST first be here, ruling over all nations. That false one is not here on earth yet, but he's coming. And when he does, that will be the time of that "one hour" when those ten kings will rule with him, and not before.

So your false claims against my credibility is nothing but the bearing of a false witness.

veteran said:

... the manifesting of the ten kings of Rev.17 is WITH the beast king also described in that chapter who they don't begin to rule until he shows up.
...

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[sup]7[/sup] But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. [sup]8[/sup] The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.[sup][[/sup][sup]c[/sup][sup]][/sup]
[sup]9[/sup] “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.


I have not problem understanding the beast as the eight king in it's proper sequence. Scripture provides that depiction, and history is fulfilling it presently. But where you are prone to hasty conclusions, I would propose you be more attentive to the foundations.


BibleScribe

The Rev.13 chapter covered the subject of two separate 'beasts', the first beast being a system, and the second beast as a specific entity. We aren't supposed to forget that when we get to the Rev.17 chapter. And that means especially the events given associated with each of the two beasts.


Rev 17:7-13
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Which one of the two beasts is that above? It's the first beast (system), because that's the one that has the ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads of Rev.13:1. That's the beast kingdom or system that carries that symbolic woman.


8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Which "beast" is this now? It's the second beast, or beast entity, the one who speaks as a dragon that is to do great signs and wonders, and miracles in the sight of men. It's a specific man. And we're given a clue that he's linked with Lucifer because of his ascending up out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition. As of right now, the ONLY ones already assigned to perdition into the "lake of fire" are Satan and his angels. No flesh man has been judged yet to go into that lake of fire, not even Judas Iscariot.


9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Which "beast" is that about? It's about the first beast again, the kingdom beast or system.



10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Which "beast" is that about? It's about the second beast, an entity. And we're shown there that second beast will fill the role of a king like the previous beast kingdoms of history had kings over them. And once again, we're told this second beast, a man, is assigned to perdition already, pointing once again to Lucifer.


12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
(KJV)

Now we're given more information about the ten horns of the first beast, that they represent ten kings, and that they don't receive power "as kings" until that "one hour" with the beast. Which "beast"? With the second beast, a beast king, a man, the one who is to go into perdition back at the Rev.17:8 & 11.

What is that "one hour" when the ten kings receive power with the beast king? It's a symbol for tribulation timing when the coming false messiah will arrive.

veteran said:

The Rev.13 chapter covered the subject of two separate 'beasts', ...

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Ummmmmm, before you take off on a tangent, you would be well served to identify the association of the Lion, Leopard, and Bear attributes, and the significance of why each are assigned as they are, -- i.e., why not the body of the Lion, etc.



BibleScribe

BibleScribe said:

Ummmmmm, before you take off on a tangent, you would be well served to identify the association of the Lion, Leopard, and Bear attributes, and the significance of why each are assigned as they are, -- i.e., why not the body of the Lion, etc.



BibleScribe

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No need to go back into that just so you can try and push what you think about the Book of Daniel. Christ made the descriptions in Rev.17 clear enough. One only need to heed what He gave with His 'revealing', a Book given long after the Book of Daniel was written to point us further in the right direction, which also applies to better understand what Daniel was given concerning the end events of this world.

veteran said:

No need to go back into that just so you can try and push what you think about the Book of Daniel. Christ made the descriptions in Rev.17 clear enough. One only need to heed what He gave with His 'revealing', a Book given long after the Book of Daniel was written to point us further in the right direction, which also applies to better understand what Daniel was given concerning the end events of this world.

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Wow, -- what a wonderful non-answer. Have you ever considered running for political office?!?



To All,

The question is simple. Revelation 13 describes a beast having the mouth of a Lion, the body of a Leopard, and the feet of a Bear. These are obviously in reference to Daniel 7. So what are the nations depicted in Daniel 7 such that they are applied to the mouth/body/feet in those associations?

Is the Lion the mouth because it is ~strong~; is the Leopard the body because it is ~fast~; and is the bear the feet because it is slow? And do these applicable nations reflect these ~attributes~?


But more to the point, -- "Veteran" cannot answer these questions, but he is quick to tell us everything else. As such, if the simple is too difficult for him, I would expect the complex is impossible.

BibleScribe

popeye said:

For decades now, I have been watching the moral and ethical standards that governed our behaviors in the past, and made our nation great, steadily and pervasively disintegrate. During that same time, I have also witnessed the devaluing of the importance of raising disciplined and unspoiled children to carry the torch of our american uniqueness into the future. Like many, I am currently watching - in perplexity - as the effectiveness of all our social, political, educational and financial institutions fail, at a rate that this country has never experienced before. I feared this…but am not surprised by it…

I think many Americans would agree with me when I say, as a nation, we are in decline, having passed the threshold of our greatness. Greed, corruption, mediocrity and apathy pervades everything, and everyone in this country it seems, from the loftiest in our government, to the lowliest in our workforce. And it is prophesied to continue…at an ever-increasing rate of degeneration. What was once a nation symbolized by a strong and proud eagle is now morphing into the image of a man. And if you don’t believe me, then consider the prophesy of Daniel 7: 4 & 12 ( KJV Bible ), yet to be fulfilled:

“The first ( beast ) was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.” “ ….it had ( it’s ) dominion taken away, but ( it’s ) life was prolonged for a season and a time.”

Call me a doomsayer if you will…but the inevitable fall of the American Empire is now upon us – and pre-dates us – whether we accept it or not. And we have no one to blame but ourselves, because we are now a nation of people - from top to bottom - living carelessly towards God.

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All you have said is obvious to our citizens. Awareness seems to be dawning upon a few, but even they do not know which direction to go.

Proverbs 29:18 says something to the effect that "Where there is no vision..." and then the translations diverge.
The KJV says that "the people perish". My RSV says that "the people cast off restraint".

Scholarly examinations aside, both may be true, at least in the American experience of recent decades.

There is now no vision, thus even those who understand that danger is near are unable to correct it.

God help us all if a man with wicked vision arises. All conditions being equal this day, such a scenario is very possible and even likely.

Biblical foundations for human living and governance have been thrown off even by main stream protestant churches. If the church throws God's Word in the gutter, how long will we stand? The Gallup Poll states that protestant decline accelerates every year. Accelerates!

Nationalism is the greatest danger to American liberty. The level of unchecked militarism in this country is such that it blinds everyone. I have seen flags and uniformed gunmen parading through the sanctuary of God's house during worship services. God is not Lord even of our worship when nationalism intrudes.

This coming veterans day will see demonstrations of nationalistic support of the military unrivaled even by 4th of July celebrations of the past. Why do we celebrate and congratuate those who have murdered and destroyed in the name of American foreign policy?
Why do we NOT celebrate those who nurture, build and protect?

Veterans, of which I am one, are often called to stand to their feet IN CHURCH to be recognized. I know you've seen it. This cheap form of entertainment is universal in America. When was the last time you saw ANYONE call teachers, doctors, nurses, carpenters*, or farmers to their feet for recognition of their sacrifice and contribution to society?

Why are the builders and creators among us NOT recognized, but the destroyers and murders are?

America is lost and going the way of nations who have been judged of God in past years.

(*) You all know that Our Lord was once a carpenter by trade. I wonder if anyone would care to recognize His carpentry work in church these days. Instead they'd prefer to recognize Pilate for his efforts to combat terrorism, or perhaps the soldiers that nailed Jesus to the cross.

We have fallen down and can't get up.

popeye said:

...

Look, the 1st beast in Rev 13 is THE Antichrist...everyone knows that the "wounded head" is AC. ..

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Hey Popeye,

I would agree that ~everyone~ THINKS the a/c is the "wounded head", but if we were to ask who the other six are, we would be met with blank stares and silence.

It's not enough to hypothesize. We have to test the hypothesis against other information, including other Scriptures and History. In fact I asked a pastor who these other six are, and he said they're the people who have hated the Jews since the history of the world. -- So apparently there's only SIX people who hated the Jews, and we know that "Isrealsson" hates the Jews, so there's only five pending identification. LOLOL


And so I would again assert that if we have a faulty foundation (i.e., Daniel 2 & Daniel 7) then we are building on sand, and the result won't be pretty.

BibleScribe

popeye said:

If I could name the 7 heads BS, I would. But, it is immaterial that we know their names. They're bad guys....er....bad spirits... ...

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Hey Popeye,

I'm not sure why people present a hypothesis as fact. If you can name the one, then you can name the other six. So once again, who are the other "six"?

I have absolutely no problem identifying and defending each of the Revelation 13 beasts; their attributes, (i.e., why the Lion is the "mouth" and NOT the "body" or "feet"); who the seven heads are; who the ten horns are; and who the a/c is. But when other people present their doctrines, it like the material "miraculium" which has zero mass and infinite strength; or in this case, "handwavium", in which no evidence is required to defend a ~known fact~.

Do you think you could have more facts and less speculation / superstition / lore / myth / legend?


BibleScribe



PS Apparently "Isrealsson" is no longer in the Membership listing, and after implying physical violence against "THE Gypsy", I would most strongly agree with that action.



Topic: "Norway Shooter A Christian Fundamentalist", Post #56
http://www.christian...st/page__st__30

Israelsson said:

... I invite you to come to Brevard NC and say that to my face... If you notice, only Christianity is not an 'ism' but there is JudaISM

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popeye said:

Wow! I really got something going here, didn't I ? Busy this past week / weekend.

Look, the 1st beast in Rev 13 is THE Antichrist...everyone knows that the "wounded head" is AC. The composite beast ( all 7 heads ) is an international "system" for sure, likely made up of 7 nations and / or land masses / continents. And everyone knows that the 2nd beast is a "false prophet", most notably because of the description of the 2nd beast in Rev 13 as "lamb like". Personally, I believe the 2nd beast is some type of propaganda or media minister or "right hand man" to AC, similar to Goebbel's position with Hitler of Nazi Germany. The 1st beast decrees that his subjects receive a "mark" ( from Daniel ), and the 2nd beast impliments that decree. The first composite beast of Rev 13 & 17 is EXACTLY THE SAME as the composite beast of Rev 12, with crown / horn differences. THIS IS A CLUE. And we know the beast of Rev 12 was THE ROMAN EMPIRE, period. And the woman that sits on the ( red ) beast of Rev 17 is a religious system that sits atop a political / international system ruled by a man who had a head wound, period.

Why does everyone complicate the obvious?

I still believe the 7 heads are 7 evil spirits / demons who existed in antiquity, and who exist today. And they are ruled and directed by Satan. My good God, they are serpent-like with a dragon's tail, for goodness sake. And I believe they have possessed kings and leaders of the past Roman Empire, and one demon in particular possesses the AC of the future, hence: the reason there are 10 horns w/ crowns attached to one head. This demon also possessed one of the Roman leaders of the past, thereby making him "one of the seven, but also the eighth".


Paul states ( ad-libbed here ); " We do not fight flesh and blood, but spirits of the unseen world who rule earthly principalities ".


Rev 12 beast = 7 heads w/ crowns on the 7 heads

Rev 13 beast = 7 heads w/ crowns on the horns [ 10 horns on one head = per Daniel 7:20, to wit: "And of the ten horns that were IN HIS HEAD " ( singular ) ]. Names of blasphemy on the 7 heads.

Rev 17 beast = 7 heads w/ crowns on the horns, which are on one head, full of names of blasphemy, again.


So, the Roman Empire dragon of Rev 12 has crowns on the heads, but the dragon of Dan, Rev 13 and Rev 17 have crowns on 10 horns ON ONE HEAD. These are the clues

....figure it out, and you have solved one of the greatest mysteries of all time.

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I don't concern myself with the horns or beasts too much, but I do concern myself with Babylon, Mystery Babylon, False Prophet, and Antichrist.

I've made it a point to read over Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Daniel (still working through Daniel) as they form the basis of Revelations (I would say Daniel and Jeremiah would be the chapters to read the most). And really, it is quite explicit who Babylon, Mystery Babylon, the False Prophet, and the antichrist are.

The False Prophet is the King of Babylon/ the dominant world empire, and the antichrist is the king of Israel, and Israel/ Jerusalem is the church/ whore of the Babylonian empire.


The whore of Babylon/ church is Jerusalem when the King of Babylon is ruler of the land and enforces the worship of the antichrist's god. The antichrist/ Jewish messiah king is co-ruler of Israel with the king of Babylon, the False Prophet. Here's some examples of this:

Jeremiah 52

31 In the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the year Awel-Marduk became king of Babylon, on the twenty-fifth day of the twelfth month, he released Jehoiachin king of Judah and freed him from prison.
32 He spoke kindly to him and gave him a seat of honor higher than those of the other kings who were with him in Babylon.
33 So Jehoiachin put aside his prison clothes and for the rest of his life ate regularly at the king’s table.
34 Day by day the king of Babylon gave Jehoiachin a regular allowance as long as he lived, till the day of his death.

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Daniel 3

28 Then Nebuchadnezzar said, “Praise be to the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants! They trusted in him and defied the king’s command and were willing to give up their lives rather than serve or worship any god except their own God.
29 Therefore I decree that the people of any nation or language who say anything against the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego be cut into pieces and their houses be turned into piles of rubble, for no other god can save in this way.”
30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the province of Babylon.

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Daniel 6

24And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces.

25Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: "Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,

for he is the living God,
enduring forever;
his kingdom shall never be destroyed,
and his dominion shall be to the end.
27He delivers and rescues;
he works signs and wonders
in heaven and on earth,
he who has saved Daniel
from the power of the lions."

28So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

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So Babylon is the great world empire. The only empire that would fulfill that would be the US. And who controls Iraq/ Babylon? The US. The US is the False Prophet. And Herman Cain will be selected as president and hand out the mark of Cain, the mark of protection to his/ Satan's followers. (I hope that it is clear to people that the people who will be killing Christians after 2012 will be what are now "Christians"/ the people who "fall away"/ the apostasy. - One more gripe here: for all the conservative Republicans on the board, you are aware the GOP symbol has 3 Satanic pentagrams on the elephant!?) The antichrist Jewish messiah king could really only be ritually filled by Prince William.

But this is a really important tandem to these points- there are 2 "cycles" of the Apocalypse. 2 sets of the 4 horsemen (Seals 1-4 & Trumpet 5 and 6), 2 rumors of wars (Jeremiah 51:46
And lest your heart faint, and ye fear for the rumour that shall be heard in the land; a rumour shall both come one year, and after that in another year shall come a rumour, and violence in the land, ruler against ruler.) - which means 2 "Peace and safety's" and 2 "sudden destructions", one at the end of 2012 and the other at Armegeddon - Trumpets 1-4 & the 7th bowl judgment , 2 abomination of desolations (Abaddon rising in Trumpet 5 and Satan being released "after the millenium" at Armegeddon/ bowl 6.

IMO, we are in the 1st cycle and thus the current False Prophet is Obama, and the current Antichrist is the Pope. The current Babylon city is NYC and the current Mystery Babylon, whore of Babylon is Vatican City. The 2nd cycle FP is Herman Cain and the 2nd cycle AC is Prince William, with Babylon, Iraq becoming the new Babylon (the US has a superbase there) and Jerusalem becoming the whore/ church of Babylon in the 2nd cycle. At the end of the 1st cycle on 12-21-12, there will be the destruction of the 1st cycle AC and FP, Vatican City, and NYC.

Anyway, getting back to the point of the thread, yeah it blows here in the US.

popeye said:

For decades now, I have been watching the moral and ethical standards that governed our behaviors in the past, and made our nation great, steadily and pervasively disintegrate. During that same time, I have also witnessed the devaluing of the importance of raising disciplined and unspoiled children to carry the torch of our american uniqueness into the future. Like many, I am currently watching - in perplexity - as the effectiveness of all our social, political, educational and financial institutions fail, at a rate that this country has never experienced before. I feared this…but am not surprised by it…

I think many Americans would agree with me when I say, as a nation, we are in decline, having passed the threshold of our greatness. Greed, corruption, mediocrity and apathy pervades everything, and everyone in this country it seems, from the loftiest in our government, to the lowliest in our workforce. And it is prophesied to continue…at an ever-increasing rate of degeneration. What was once a nation symbolized by a strong and proud eagle is now morphing into the image of a man. And if you don’t believe me, then consider the prophesy of Daniel 7: 4 & 12 ( KJV Bible ), yet to be fulfilled:

“The first ( beast ) was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.” “ ….it had ( it’s ) dominion taken away, but ( it’s ) life was prolonged for a season and a time.”

Call me a doomsayer if you will…but the inevitable fall of the American Empire is now upon us – and pre-dates us – whether we accept it or not. And we have no one to blame but ourselves, because we are now a nation of people - from top to bottom - living carelessly towards God.

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what you are really witnessing are the fulfillment of Pauls words about what life will be like during the 'last days' or as Daniel calls them 'the time of the end'

2Timothy 3:1 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

the decline in moral values are not only happening in America but are happening in every nation on earth. This is the result of the influence of unseen powers that govern our world today:

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; 12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.

dismas said:

I don't concern myself with the horns or beasts too much, but I do concern myself with Babylon, Mystery Babylon, False Prophet, and Antichrist.
...

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Hi dismas,

I'd propose that if you only feel for the "wall", the "tree", and the "snake", -- you haven't discovered the elephant.


BibleScribe

popeye said:

For decades now, I have been watching the moral and ethical standards that governed our behaviors in the past, and made our nation great, steadily and pervasively disintegrate. During that same time, I have also witnessed the devaluing of the importance of raising disciplined and unspoiled children to carry the torch of our american uniqueness into the future. Like many, I am currently watching - in perplexity - as the effectiveness of all our social, political, educational and financial institutions fail, at a rate that this country has never experienced before. I feared this…but am not surprised by it…

I think many Americans would agree with me when I say, as a nation, we are in decline, having passed the threshold of our greatness. Greed, corruption, mediocrity and apathy pervades everything, and everyone in this country it seems, from the loftiest in our government, to the lowliest in our workforce. And it is prophesied to continue…at an ever-increasing rate of degeneration. What was once a nation symbolized by a strong and proud eagle is now morphing into the image of a man. And if you don’t believe me, then consider the prophesy of Daniel 7: 4 & 12 ( KJV Bible ), yet to be fulfilled:

“The first ( beast ) was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.” “ ….it had ( it’s ) dominion taken away, but ( it’s ) life was prolonged for a season and a time.”

Call me a doomsayer if you will…but the inevitable fall of the American Empire is now upon us – and pre-dates us – whether we accept it or not. And we have no one to blame but ourselves, because we are now a nation of people - from top to bottom - living carelessly towards God.

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All earthly empires decline - it took Rome hundreds of years to fade into mediocrity. I think the issue of decline is neither here nor there - the important discussion is; in what condition are we better as a society? We may be more comfortable as a superpower, but at what cost? I believe our inflated egos stunt spiritual growth - egos and power go hand in hand. Perhaps taking a backseat in world affairs will spark revival.

aspen said:

All earthly empires decline - it took Rome hundreds of years to fade into mediocrity. ...
...Perhaps taking a backseat in world affairs will spark revival.

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Hey Aspen,

I hate to be the one to break the news, -- but the Roman Empire is DEAD, and another (Italy) occupies that ancient geography.

Also, I think the U.S. and "revival" are not synonymous. In fact, I would propose a more difficult future for both that nation and mankind in general.

BibleScribe