SoWhendidThisHappen??

It hasn't happened yet. Simple as that.

It is speaking of Armegeddon.
The heavens being rolled together as a scroll is also found in Revelation.

You got about 6 years or so before this happens.
The Medes are developing nukes and the king of Babylon has been reigning in the kingdom since 1948.
As you know he reigns for at least 70 years and the nations can do nothing to stop him.After 70 years has been accomplished the kings of the Medes with many nations with him shall destroy the king of Babylon

1948+70=2018.

This is a video of an atom bomb.
Notice how the heaven rise as a scroll when it is rolled together.
Though this is a small bomb you can get the idea.Todays nukes are 50 to 100 times more powerful.
This is what is supposed to happen to the kingdom before it is inherrited by Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTVWW9JVCbA

Shabbat shalom, shilohsfoal.

shilohsfoal said:

It is speaking of Armegeddon.
The heavens being rolled together as a scroll is also found in Revelation.

You got about 6 years or so before this happens.
The Medes are developing nukes and the king of Babylon has been reigning in the kingdom since 1948.
As you know he reigns for at least 70 years and the nations can do nothing to stop him.After 70 years has been accomplished the kings of the Medes with many nations with him shall destroy the king of Babylon

1948+70=2018.

This is a video of an atom bomb.
Notice how the heaven rise as a scroll when it is rolled together.
Though this is a small bomb you can get the idea.Todays nukes are 50 to 100 times more powerful.
This is what is supposed to happen to the kingdom before it is inherrited by Israel.

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You really don't know what you're talking about. Yeshua` is not about to let His family get annihilated by a nuclear explosion. With all the nuclear fallout that your little clip fails to show, what good would the Kingdom be to anyone?!

However, Isra'el, Yeshua`s mishpachah, Jesus' family, has this promise from God:

Isa. 54:17
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
KJV

Shabbat shalom, Hitch.

Hitch said:

It been fashionable lately for futurists to call up some passage and demand to know when the fulfillment took place in history, also implied in the demand is a literal application of the terms, specifically, celestial signs, and terms such as for ever.

With that in mind;

Isaiah 34

1Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
2For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
3Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

Which mountains were melted?

Simple. Since Yesha`yahu is talking about armies that are attacking Isra'el, they would be the mountains of Isra'el in that area today known as the West Bank. The mountains have not yet been "melted" or dissolved by the streams of blood from the devastation. This is yet a future event.

4And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, Hmmm When were the stars dissolved? More importantly since we can see them today,When were the stars re-created?

This verse is not necessarily referring to "stars" since the word "heaven" (Hebrew: "shaamayim") means the "skies." Indeed, the phrase "host of heaven" is "tsVaa' hashaamayim" literally means "a-mass-of-persons of-the-skies," or "an-army of-the-skies," and since this is talking about some time in our future, it could refer to an airforce, an airborne assault! So, your questions are off target.

and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll:
Wow Seems like someone would have noticed this ,do you literalists have any accounts of this fantastic event ?

That's OUR question of the preterists! When DID this supposedly happen in the first century, if the Lord's return was within the first century?

No, this, too, is part of the same future being predicted by Yesha`yahu. It SHALL YET happen when Yeshua` arrives and blows His enemies out of the skies. They'll be dropping like flies!

and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
6The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
7And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
8For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

So the land of Idumea became burning pitch,somebody please, show me how this was accomplished, did it ever turn back into land?

Have you ever heard of the LaBrea Tar Pits in the Los Angeles area? Did you know that they are still actively heated by the San Andreas fault? Because of the asphaltum and the methane gas produced by bacteria in the asphaltum, these pits could easily catch fire. Access to them is therefore restricted, and they are carefully monitored by fire fighters daily.

Did you know that there is an active fault line under the Jordan River valley? Ancient Idumea (Edom) was located just south of the Dead Sea, still above this fault line. Wikipedia identifies this fault as...

The Dead Sea Transform (DST) fault system, also sometimes referred to as the Dead Sea Rift, is a geologic fault which runs from the Maras Triple Junction (a junction with the East Anatolian Fault (in southeastern Turkey) to the northern end of the Red Sea Rift (just offshore of the southern tip of the Sinai Peninsula). It runs along the boundary of two tectonic plates, the African Plate on the west and the Arabian Plate on the east. It is a left lateral transform fault, signifying the relative motions of the two plates. Both plates are moving in a general north-northeast direction, but the Arabian Plate is moving faster, resulting in the observed left lateral motions along the fault of approximately 107 km. A component of extension is also present, which has contributed to the depression, or pull apart basin in which the Dead Sea is situated.

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It is believed that this is why the Dead Sea is the lowest spot on the globe. So, you see? The same geological activity that Yeshua` will start when He sets foot on Har haZeitiym (the Mount of Olives) and causes the earthquake that splits the mountain to form an escape route, could also be responsible for the LAND of the ancient Idumeans to turn into a marsh of burning tar pits, similar to the LaBrea Tar Pits.

10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever:

Ooops never mind I see the land that turned into pitch is still burning. Why is it we never see this in todays headlines? For Ever means for ever ,,,right?

Again, the fulfillment of this prophecy is yet in the future. It has yet to begin.

from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

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I have answered your various points in blue within the quotation above. In your attempts to discredit the futurists, you have really discredited yourself. You have shown us that you have never considered the possibilities because you RESIST even the possibilities in favor of preterism with a habitual, "knee-jerk" resistance that prevents you from even considering that you might be wrong and that futurists may be right. Don't you think it may be time to reconsider - just reconsider - your position on futurism? The Scriptures are plain to us that these events will LITERALLY happen in the future, and that God will fulfill His prophecies EXACTLY as He said He would.

I may consider myself a "partial preterist" of sorts, but I am 100% futurist! I am a premillennial believer, and I am thoroughly convinced that our Master Yeshua` the Messiah SHALL return and establish a LITERAL Kingdom of which the capital city will be Yerushalayim, Yisra'el - Jerusalem, Isra'el.

Although we talk about a "millennium" in which our Master is reigning as haMelekh Yisra'el, the King of Isra'el, that actually defines the time that haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") is locked away in the pit with an unsounded bottom. Yeshua` won't just reign a thousand years; He will reign forever (Luke 1:30-33), and even the "millennium," the "chilia etee," is yet in the future.
Again,

Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, shilohsfoal.



You really don't know what you're talking about. Yeshua` is not about to let His family get annihilated by a nuclear explosion. With all the nuclear fallout that your little clip fails to show, what good would the Kingdom be to anyone?!

However, Isra'el, Yeshua`s mishpachah, Jesus' family, has this promise from God:

Isa. 54:17
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
KJV

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You say I dont know what Im talking about and follow up that statement by asking a stupid question.
If you understood scripture you would know the kingdom is destroyed before it is given to Israel.

Daniel 7;
[sup]26 [/sup]But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
[sup]27 [/sup]And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Hitch said:

Better tell the Idumeans,real quick .

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Hitch - I am not a Catholic ... but I feel like I am at confession and I have been been humbled.

I actually had to look up the word "Idumeans" in order to know what the heck you were talking about.

Now that I have discovered the meaning , my pride comes back in full force (told you I'm not Catholic) (nor humble)

My boasting pride has returned and wishes to inform you that My Lord has steered me continuously to the passages in Ezekiel about nations surrounding Israel , including Edom.

If I told you any more I would have to shoot you.

I will not shoot you because I would have to go to confessional again.

You are safe for now

Some unfulfilled stuff in Ezekiel 28

It comes next.

A wise Christian keeps his eyes on Israel

A wise anybody keeps his eyes on Israel


...

Why do you have need of a teacher?

"But the annointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same annointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27)

You write with disdain and anger; you appear to be a man without hope, stuck in the scriptures referencing destruction. Do you know nothing of Jesus? How did you fall into this abyss of prophecy?

I have seen the heavens rolled up like a scroll. That's the thing about prophecy - prophets 'see' it. Do you think Isaiah was just bored one day and decided to write a novel? I tired. I have to sleep. I thought I could rip apart this message board in a single night, but that obviously isn't going to happen. I can't keep my eyes open any more, and I've written enough for one night.

Seriously, though, ask a question worth answering so that I have something to write.

Shalom, Hitch.

Hitch said:

I have answered your various points in blue within the quotation above. In your attempts to discredit the futurists, you have really discredited yourself. You have shown us that you have never considered the possibilities because you RESIST even the possibilities in favor of preterism with a habitual, "knee-jerk" resistance that prevents you from even considering that you might be wrong and that futurists may be right. Don't you think it may be time to reconsider - just reconsider - your position on futurism? The Scriptures are plain to us that these events will LITERALLY happen in the future, and that God will fulfill His prophecies EXACTLY as He said He would.


LOL This passage describes past events, like it or not. And you should know Christ will remain where He is until the last enemy is defeated,completely, through resurrection.

So when Christ returns there can be no more death. not for a week ,not for a thousand years , not at all.

WRT The Scriptures are plain to us that these events will LITERALLY happen in the future. Well Joel 2 is but one glaring example of the contrary.

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And, herein lies one of your problems: What do you think will happen when Yeshua the Messiah comes back? "When Christ returns there can be no more death?" What makes you think THAT?!

Revelation 19:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
KJV

And, let's continue Joel 2 for it is, after all, one prophecy:

Joel 3:1-4:21
3 1(2:28) “After this, I will pour out
my Spirit on all humanity.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions;
2(2:29) and also on male and female slaves
in those days I will pour out my Spirit.
3(2:30) I will show wonders in the sky and on earth —
blood, fire and columns of smoke.
4(2:31) The sun will be turned into darkness
and the moon into blood
before the coming of the great
and terrible Day of Adonai.”

5(2:32) At that time, whoever calls
on the name of Adonai will be saved.
For in Mount Tziyon and Yerushalayim
there will be those who escape,
as Adonai has promised;
among the survivors will be those
whom Adonai has called.

4(3):1 “For then, at that time, when I restore
the fortunes of Y’hudah and Yerushalayim,
2 I will gather all nations and bring them down
to the Valley of Y’hoshafat [Adonai judges].
I will enter into judgment there
for my people, my heritage Isra’el,
whom they scattered among the nations;
then they divided my land.
3 They drew lots for my people,
traded boys for whores,
sold girls for wine to drink.

4 “Moreover, what have you against me,
Tzor (Tyre), Tzidon (Zidon/Sidon, both in Lebanon), all parts of P’leshet (Philistia a.k.a. the Gaza Strip)?
Are you paying me back for something I did?
If you’re paying me back for something I did,
then easily, quickly, I’ll pay you back
right on your own head.
5 You took my silver and gold.
You brought my good treasures into your temples.
6 The people of Y’hudah and Yerushalayim
you sold to the Greeks, so that you could remove them
far away from their land.
7 I will rouse them from the place where you sold them
and pay you back right on your own head —
8 I will sell your sons and daughters
to the people of Y’hudah;
and they will sell them to the men of Sh’va (Sheba, upper Egypt or the Sudan today),
a nation far off; for Adonai has spoken.

9 “Proclaim this among the nations:
‘Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors!
Let all the fighting men approach and attack.’
10 Hammer your plow-blades into swords
and your pruning-knives into spears.
Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’
11 Hurry, come, you surrounding nations,
gather yourselves together!”

Bring your warriors down, Adonai!

12 “Let the nations be roused and come up
to the Valley of Y’hoshafat [Adonai judges].
For there I will sit to judge
all the surrounding nations.”

13 Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe;
come, and tread, for the winepress is full.
The vats are overflowing,
for their wickedness is great.
14 Such enormous crowds
in the Valley of Decision!
For the Day of Adonai is upon us
in the Valley of Decision!
15 The sun and moon have grown black,
and the stars have stopped shining.
16 Adonai will roar from Tziyon,
he will thunder from Yerushalayim,
the sky and the earth will shake.

But Adonai will be a refuge for his people,
a stronghold for the people of Isra’el.
17 “You will know that I am Adonai your God,
living on Tziyon my holy mountain.”

Then Yerushalayim will be holy,
and foreigners will pass through her no more.
18 Then, when that time comes,
the mountains will drip with sweet wine,
the hills will flow with milk,
all the streambeds of Y’hudah will run with water,
and a spring will flow from the house of Adonai
to water the Sheetim Valley.

19 But Egypt will be desolate
and Edom a desert waste,
because of the violence done to the people of Y’hudah,
because they shed innocent blood in their land.

20 Y’hudah will be inhabited forever,
Yerushalayim through all generations.
21 “I will cleanse them of bloodguilt
which I have not yet cleansed,”
for Adonai is living in Tziyon.
CJB

Also, these verses are being quoted in Revelation:

Isaiah 63:1-6
1 Who is this, coming from Edom,
from Botzrah with clothing stained crimson,
so magnificently dressed,
so stately in his great strength?

“It is I, who speak victoriously,
I, well able to save (rescue).”

2 Why is your apparel red,
your clothes like someone treading a winepress?

3 “I have trodden the winepress alone;
from the peoples, not one was with me.
So I trod them in my anger,
trampled them in my fury;
so their lifeblood spurted out on my clothing,
and I have stained all my garments;
4 for the day of vengeance that was in my heart
and my year of redemption have come.
5 I looked, but there was no one to help,
and I was appalled that no one upheld me.
Therefore my own arm brought me salvation (a rescue),
and my own fury upheld me.
6 In my anger I trod down the peoples,
made them drunk with my fury,
then poured out their lifeblood on the earth.”
CJB

And, I suppose you're going to tell me this all happened in the first century A.D?! HARDLY! Everybody - all the kings of the earth - were against the Messiah and His army in the first century? That doesn't even make sense! And, if this happens in the future, then we are guaranteed that there will be bloodshed with His coming! The "no more death" part doesn't come until the New Earth is created in Revelation 21:1, AFTER the millennium of Revelation 20, which is still a future time period for us! Our position in earth's history as portrayed at the end of Revelation is not at the END of chapter 20 but BEFORE chapter 19!

Retrobyter said:

....

And, I suppose you're going to tell me this all happened in the first century A.D?! HARDLY! Everybody - all the kings of the earth - were against the Messiah and His army in the first century? That doesn't even make sense! And, if this happens in the future, then we are guaranteed that there will be bloodshed with His coming! The "no more death" part doesn't come until the New Earth is created in Revelation 21:1, AFTER the millennium of Revelation 20, which is still a future time period for us! Our position in earth's history as portrayed at the end of Revelation is not at the END of chapter 20 but BEFORE chapter 19!

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It's no use Retro, he's not interested in what God's Word says on the matter. That's why he's always blindly feeling his way back to Scripture that doesn't talk about all that end time and future prophecy stuff.

This is what I've been trying to warn many on this Forum about with the Preterism lies. They are specifically designed to lead brethren to bow to the coming false messiah, the god of this world.

The god of this world is already here. Wow, get out of the book and open your eyes.

Risen Angel said:

The god of this world is already here. Wow, get out of the book and open your eyes.

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When it happens, and then Christ does return like He said, then... you'll know what I'm talking about from His Word.

Or,... you can get in His Word now, for youself, and find out what's getting ready to occur in this last generation on earth, before it's too late. The time of the great apostasy (falling away) is still to come.

How can you say that it is still to come? I study the word every day and I've read the work in its entirety many times. What I am saying is that the world is crumbling, the destruction is under way; I used to think a cataclysmic event would end the world as I see it, but the world is dying right now. Surely prophecy will be fulfilled, but will it be in the way that you think?

The prophets 'saw' a vision given to them by God and then described it using the language they had available to them. How can you desribe a car if you've never seen one before; how do you describe a plane, a tank, an aircraft carrier, a shuttle, an orbiting space station, a probe sent to another planet? How do you describe a computer system, satellite or cell phone device if you have no reference? Think about it.

I only say this because of what I've seen, and my own inability to place it into words. There are some things that just can't be captured, and sometimes when God speaks the words he uses have multiple meanings; it doesn't make much sense to me as a human being, but I've adapted.

God resides within me, and the truth gives me the ability to hear and see the lies of the world. Without light I would continue to walk in the dark without ever knowing it was dark. I haven't travelled the world in the physical sense, but I don't need to in order to see the decay. I don't need a vision from God to see the disgusting cloud hanging over a city: I only need to leave the city and look back.

I couldn't see the dark impure quality of the air while I was standing in it; and, Satan is working the same way.

The truth is being lost, glazed over, minimized, and rejected. All around the word I hear that millions of people are coming to Christ. I don't know what that looks like because in this society the gospel is disappearing. The principles that nations were found on are deteriorating and becoming compromised; God is being taken out of government and schools.

"They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off." (Hosea 8:4)

Satan is a cunning enemy, I've said it before and I will say it again; never underestimate what we fight against. And if you are one of those people who subscribe to the belief that we fight from a stance of victory, being assured because of Christ - I agree to a certain extent. The war has been won, but the battles will still be fought. 'Christians' aren't mounting much of an offensive and their defense is non-existent. They do nothing as their world is taken from them; hell, they are GIVING IT AWAY. One small compromise at a time until nothing is left.

Jesus himself said, "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." (John 14:30)

This is what I am refering to when I say that the god of this world is already here. In doesn't end there because the deception that I have witnessed is wide spread and being sent forth by the media; I hear the name of Jesus Christ being used as a curse more often than as salvation. The development of radio, television and interent - creating a global method of deceiving the masses - was created not for the entertainment of the human mind, but the destruction of it. People will spend hours in front of these media devices, essentially worshipping them, and maybe open the word once a week or two minutes a day. And these are the majority of 'Christians.'

Please forgive my blanket statements; the true soldiers are also out there mounting a resistance and fighting for the true Light.
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinth 4:3-4)

What has the enemy done? Blinded the minds of the people. So many think that this only applies to the lost, but I am watching as the blinding crosses the boundary and infects the minds of those who are supposed to be protected. Is this a way of seperating the sheep from the goats, the boys from the men, the children of light from the children of disobiedience? Who knows! I don't.

I have to go; the computer system is about to lock me out. I'll write later.

Risen Angel said:

How can you say that it is still to come? I study the word every day and I've read the work in its entirety many times. What I am saying is that the world is crumbling, the destruction is under way; I used to think a cataclysmic event would end the world as I see it, but the world is dying right now. Surely prophecy will be fulfilled, but will it be in the way that you think?

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It will happen how God's Word declares it. In 2 Thess.2 Apostle Paul attached the "falling away" (apostasy) to a specific event he also mentioned there. That event is indeed in connection with the ideas like Peter's scoffers and Paul's perilous times in 2 Timothy 3. But the heart of it is specific by Paul in 2 Thess.2. Yet Paul was not the first to warn about it, our Lord Jesus was in His Olivet Discourse about 'a pseudo-Christ' (Greek for "false Christs"). Our Lord Jesus gave the warning yet again through His servant John in Revelation, about the coming "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward.

So, there's still a difference with many of God's people turning away to live their lives how they want, vs. bowing defacto to an idol ("abomination of desolation") or pseudo-Christ in thinking they are worshipping God. And that's exactly what the five foolish virgins are going to do during the coming tribulation, which is what the "strong delusion" is about that Paul was explaining there in 2 Thess.2. That prophecy of that pseudo-Christ/fake messiah and setup of the abomination that maketh desolate, has yet to occur today. But it's soon coming.