Which One Is First?

Hezekiah said:

I have studied the Bible for some fifty years and have wrestled with my fair share of the scriptures. I have found the answers to many of my question.
This is one question for which I have not found the answer:

Which is first, the saved or the unsaved? Now I know the Bible says that "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were up", but I have read
that these words were not in the original texts and from my understanding of the scriptures, this cannot be.

Now, I ask you again, Which one is gathered first?

1Th_4:16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Mat_13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Is Paul right or is the Christ right?

Click to expand...

They are both right.
Paul is speaking about what will happen to believers...the living will not be gather up until the dead in Christ are raised.

An hour is coming when all who are in the tomb will hear his voice and rise...some to everlasting life and some to everlasting seperation from the Lord....Jn 5

The Lord will come in a flame of fire and eternally seperate all who have rejected the Gospel on the day that we rise and are glorified in him..2Thess 1

Ashes under the soles of our feet.

Behold, I am coming soon to render to everyman accordingly..rev 22

The quick answer is that Matthew 13:30 occurs first ... actually, it is happening as you are reading this.

Hezekiah said:

Now, I ask you again, Which one is gathered first?

1Th_4:16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Mat_13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Is Paul right or is the Christ right?

Click to expand...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

Both verses are about the 'harvest' timing on "the day of the Lord" when our Lord Jesus comes "as a thief in the night".

Our Lord used agriculture terminoloy. With wheat harvest, what you do is separate the tares from the wheat and throw it into the fire as chaff, but then bind up the wheat and store it in the barn.

I don't think Mathew 13:30-43 is about the rapture. At the time of the rapture the dead in Christ rise first. But in the case of the wheat and the tares, the tares are gathered first and burned. Then the wheat is harvested and gathered into the barn. This seems to be contradictorey to what we know takes place at the gathering of the saints where it appears the saints rise first and then the wicked afterwards.

Matt. 13 is about the judgement of the sheep and goats which is the same as the judgement of nations which is the same as the separation of the wheat and tares.

For all you pretribulationist out there. This is God's judgement that determines who will enter and populate the millennium.
37 He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats (Matthew 25:31-32)."

Hi Hezekiah,

You said:
"I have studied the Bible for some fifty years and have wrestled with my fair share of the scriptures. I have found the answers to many of my question.
This is one question for which I have not found the answer:

Which is first, the saved or the unsaved? Now I know the Bible says that "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were up", but I have read
that these words were not in the original texts and from my understanding of the scriptures, this cannot be.

Now, I ask you again, Which one is gathered first?

1Th_4:16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Mat_13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Is Paul right or is the Christ right?"

The tares are gathered together first TO BE burned. Meaning they are gathered together to be burned at some future point. After they are gathered, then the wheat is taken into the barn and the tares are burned up after the wheat.

Matt.13:30 Harvest: a common biblical metaphor for the time of God's judgment; cf Jer.51:33; Jl:4:13; Hos. 6:11.

Hezekiah,
The way to look at this situation is from the old Israelite prespective of welcoming a guest into your home. The hosts would go out to receive the guest and escourt the guest back to the home. The chosen will meet Christ in the air on His way back to earth and will escourt Him back to earth for the judgement of the living wicked on earth at that time. His presence will destroy the wicked upon His return. Remember when Moses ask to see God and was told that Moses could not look upon His face, for he would die, but he could see His hinder parts, the same will happen at that time as the wicked will be exposed to His face and the chosen having new bodies will be like Him, thus safe. humble servant of the Lord God Most High

Good reply, Sabitarian. In my view, the question confuses two seperate situations. The rest of the dead are those who will be judged at the Great white throne judgment. They will be resurrected to that judgment and then suffer the second death. This indicates that if they are resurrected and die again, they must have died in the first place. So, in terms of the resurrection from the dead, they are not first. But how they first die and when they first die, has many individual answers.
However, Math.13:30 is a parable about the kingdom of heaven. It is by no means a certainty that Jesus was referring to the saved vs. the lost in that parable. There are no lost in the kingdom of heaven. Only the saved.
For example, we know that on the judgment seat of Christ, there will be things that are burned with fire. These may well be the tares that do not belong. " But he himself will be saved, yet as through fire" (1Cor.3:15). We are told that we have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7), with our flesh lusting against our spirit and visa vera. There are wheat and tares within our own being. These tares must be eradicated before we enter in, starting in this life and finishing on the judgment seat.
However, this interpretation is my own and I am open to objections.

As well, in Rev.14:14-20, we see an end times reaping of two harvests. In this account, we see God's children being taken out of the way before the wrath of God comes upon those who are on the earth at that time. This first harvest is commonly known as the rapture, but I see it as the first resurrection. They are one and the same event. This is also what I believe Jesus will be referring to when He says "come out of her, My children". Not a command, as some insist, but rather a rescue call. The second harvest applies to those who remain, but in no way do they represent all who partake of the second resurrection and second death.