The Day Of Wrath.

keras said:

Marcus straight back with the abuse and your belief about Isaiah 30:26.

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My belief? No, rabbi keras, trix are for kids: your wild, made-up, contradictory to Scripture, fantasy belief that the sun explodes on a day to heal!

Isa 30:26 The light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven days, on the day the Lord binds up the fracture of His people and heals the bruise He has inflicted.

• Isaiah 30:26 is NOT about the sun exploding and scorching the earth with plasma!
• Isaiah 30:26 is about HEALING.

That you - the great and powerful writer of Bible Study Guides - can be so blind as to what Isaiah is saying; means you are incapable of rightly discerning God's Word through the Prophets.

rabbi keras - you are not to be trusted.
You who claim others have been proved in error - are indeed in error yourself and you are not wise enough to even be corrected. Stubborn old delusional man? Yes. rabbi? No.

Oh, was I being rude in calling a fool a fool? Is that un-Christian? No. Proverbs scolds fools left and right. Being a Christian does not mean I have to tolerate foolishness when a fool maligns God's Word so as to lead the sheeple into error. No. I stand with sword and shield against all such foolishness. Christians are warriors; we are not door mats.

keras said:

You say the Lord's wrath happens at the Return.

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No, rabbi keras: trix are for kids - Scripture says the Lord's Wrath happens when He comes on the Day of the Lord.

PS 21:9 At the time of your appearing
you will make them like a fiery furnace.
In his wrath the LORD will swallow them up,
and his fire will consume them.

ISA 13:9 See, the day of the LORD is coming
--a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger--
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
ISA 13:10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.

JOEL 2:11 The LORD thunders
at the head of his army;
his forces are beyond number,
and mighty are those who obey his command.
The day of the LORD is great;
it is dreadful.
Who can endure it?

JOEL 2:30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
JOEL 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Jesus will trample out His Wrath ON the Day of the Lord.

The Lord's Wrath is directly linked in Scripture to the same sun/moon/star event of Mt 24:29 and the sixth Seal of Revelation 6:12-14.
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Let's go to the broad overview of the "end": the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4 through 11 (exclusive of the sidebar account of the Temple and the Two Witnesses in 11:1-13):

Following the sixth Seal's Day of the Lord Rapture to heaven -(that really bugs earthbound rabbi keras)- in little more than half an hour -(not rabbi keras' wild interpretation of 20 years, 10 months)- the opened Scroll has the first Trumpet blow!

And what does it supply?
Rev 8:7 The first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood,
That is exactly what comes with the Day of the Lord's Wrath - from Scripture!
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Let's go to the detailed parallel account of the "end" in the Rise and Fall of the anti-Christ, the one 'seven' account of Revelation chapters 13 through 16 (inclusive):

Immediately following the Harvest from the clouds, the Rapture - which is the same as 1Th 4;16/17, Mt 24:31, 1Co 15:51-52 - and results in the Great Multitude showing up in the barn of Heaven -(you can hear rabbi keras seeth)- comes this:

The Harvest - on the Day of the Lord:
Rev 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, " Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

The first Trumpet of God's Wrath - on the Day of the Lord.
17 And another (#1) angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18 Then another (#2) angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he (#2) called with a loud voice to him (#1) who had the sharp sickle, saying, " Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe." 19 So the angel (#1) swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God. 20 And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses' bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

That's a lot of blood, and it comes on orders of the one who has fire. Fire and blood: two important elements of the Day of the Lord's Wrath presented 1-2 in Scripture.
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So Scripture says that we will be lifted up on the Day of the Lord - following the sun/moon/star event.
And Scripture also says that the Lord's Wrath happens on the Day of the Lord - again, following the sun/moon/star event.

Both happen on the Day of the Lord.
But God's Wrath is not done. There are many other desolations that will affect the earth tormenting the wicked for years before the cataclysmic end at Armageddon.

keras said:

Revelation 15:1 says it is all over BEFORE the Return.

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You really have to check on what rabbi keras says Scripture says, because he makes so many errors - like saying the sun explodes on the day God heals those He has afflicted (with the desolations of the Trumpets).

Rev 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.

Jesus has already returned on the clouds at the Harvest.
Every eye will see Him.
The Rapture is not secret - but I will lay dollars to donuts that it will be misunderstood by those who are left behind - the wicked and the foolish who will bear His Wrath...

In between Rev 14:17-20 and Rev 15:1 are the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth Trumpet desolations - and those desolations take time! - and then the seventh Trumpet announcement - which John was told not to write, and being wise and obedient, John did not write that in the Seal/Scroll chronology.

What this detailed parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology does is to tell us the DEPTH of God's Wrath that comes with the third Woe.

The Bowl Judgments come last. They are not in parallel to the Seals and Trumpets as some construct the sequence of events in the Bible. They do not happen coincidentally at the same time one-for-one.

But what about rabbi keras' contention?
It's not there.
That's why I slice up his foolishness - so you won't believe what is false.

The final climax of the one 'seven' happens at Armageddon. That is when Jesus, who has already come - and who has shepherded the Remnant Jews so they are protected through the second half of the one 'seven' safely to the time of the Millennium - will again alight upon the battlefield with His Army; and they will break the statue of Nebuchadnezzar up in one final blow.

keras said:

At the Return Jesus simply disposes of the armies at Armageddon with the Sword of His Word.

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There is no Scripture that says Jesus fights in the northern (North of Jerusalem) hill country of Ephraim, which is where har' Megiddo is-(which the mountain of Megiddo, which is where we get the very word: Armageddon)- on the Day of the Lord.

Instead:

Old Testament Scripture warns the Jews that two battles will be fought on the Day of the Lord -
- and they are located in:

1. Jerusalem
2. The Valley of Decision.

The first has many references. Scholars have drawn inference from the Valley of Decision to the place around Bethlehem where Jehoshaphat fought to victory for Israel too.

Zec 12:2 "Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah.
Zec 12:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.

Jewish soldiers loyal to the North, as well as the occupying Northern army will be the enemies of the Lord. Israel will suffer on the Day of the Lord because of her unfaithfulness; but a remnant will be saved out of her.

So why travel to the east and south to Judah?
On the Day of the Lord, Jews will flee from Jerusalem through the cleft in the Mount of Olives Jesus makes.

Zec 14:5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, (cut in verse 4 when Jesus alights upon the earth, second earthquake of the sixth Seal) for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel;

Where is Azel?
East of Jerusalem. Scholars cite this location for it: the Wady Yasul.

Why would Jesus extend the battle from Jerusalem?
To protect the fleeing remnant Jews whom He will shepherd about in the wilderness for the deadly time of God's desolations falling upon the earth.

In Isaiah 63:1-6, we see the Prophet's personal account of the Lord returning from Edom. Where is Edom?
Edom extends from the Dead Sea in the north to the Red Sea in the south.

We can trace the Day of the Lord's battles from the Mount of Olives west to Jerusalem where He takes control of the Holy City to include its Temple in Ezekiel chapter 9.

Once secured, from there He travels east and south to as far as then southern tip of the Dead Sea vanquishing the retreating Northern horde and also protecting the fleeing Remnant Jews who might be victimized by that army.

When His Work is done: He returns to Heaven in blood-splattered robes; having both used His Might to save those who are to be saved, and vanquishing the wicked in battle.

Our Lord is Mighty.

keras said:

Marcus says: Then He returns to Heaven soaked in crimson blood having saved those He did.
Jesus goes back to heaven after His Return? What for? Where do you get that idea?

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Silly rabbi keras: trix are for kids.

Scripture says He returns to from Edom. Where? To His home in Heaven. The earth is about to be unfit for habitation silly rabbi.

Isa 63:1 Who is this who comes from Edom,
With garments of glowing colors from Bozrah,
This One who is majestic in His apparel,
Marching in the greatness of His strength?
"It is I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save."

Where do you get the idea that Jesus has a wooden house with a mailbox on earth?

keras said:

Revelation 19:13 says He COMES in blood splashed garments, not goes!

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Once again, you cannot trust the Word with rabbi keras!
It does not say He comes from Heaven to the earth with blood-splashed garments!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

This is different than blood splashed clothes from the two battles Jesus fights on the Day of the Lord.

Isa 63:3b And their lifeblood is sprinkled on My garments,
And I stained all My raiment.
4 "For the day of vengeance was in My heart,
And My year of redemption has come.

His Robe, being dipped in blood is not the result of battle, but of preparation.
Who else washes their robes clean in the Blood of the Lamb?
We do.

Rev 7:14 ...they (the Great Multitude standing before the Father on His Throne in Heaven) have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Dipped is not the same as blood-splashed.
There are many ways to interpret the symbology of Jesus' dipped in blood robe, but saying it is the result of battle is rabbi keras' delusion.

keras said:

Isaiah 63:1-6 is another description of the Sixth Seal disaster.

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The sixth Seal first calls the 144,000 and then it shows us having been rescued on the Day of the Lord.

The Day of the Lord is not a disaster for us.
It is for natural Israel who "misses" Jesus and the wicked who hate God.

Isaiah 63:1-6 gives us another intimate, personal account of our Lord returning to Heaven after He has both saved and destroyed; Isaiah was blessed among prophets with such visions.

Marcus O'Reillius said:

To suggest that a Temple cannot be built based on your faith is to ignore that the Jews don't give a flip about the book of Hebrews and your spiritual basis for seeing us as idealized temples.

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I never stated that the temple could not be rebuilt. The fact remains such a building is a distraction from the true focus. The true temple of God is the hearts of men. To consider that God would desire a building, rather than the hearts of man belittles Him and places Him in a box.

boldncourageous said:

I never stated that the temple could not be rebuilt. The fact remains such a building is a distraction from the true focus. The true temple of God is the hearts of men. To consider that God would desire a building, rather than the hearts of man belittles Him and places Him in a box.

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Besides which, the Bible teaches us that we as humans, are the temple if the Holy Spirit, which means God no longer need a brick & mortar building under His NC.

Marcus O'Reillius said:

For your information: I am not Pre-Trib.
I am Pre-Wrath.

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That's good to know your position. I will no longer address you as a pretribber. I see prewrath folk as disgruntled pretribbers that have come to the conclusion that the pretrib doctrine is a total fabrication. However, because of the massive indoctrination they cannot see the distinction between thymos and ergo so they must have a division surrounding the concept of the English word for wrath... thus prewrath.

Steve Anderson teaches prewrath, and like Steve I believe that Rev. 12-16 is an overlay of Rev. 6-11, making the trumpets and bowls one in the same. How do you see it?

StanJ said:

Besides which, the Bible teaches us that we as humans, are the temple if the Holy Spirit, which means God no longer need a brick & mortar building under His NC.

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Righto Stan,
So the point remains that the Scripture never indicates the need for the temple to be rebuilt. That need is a fabrication of the pretrib doctrine to give place for the anti-christ to be seated in a building rather than the hearts of man...2 Thess. 2. The need for the temple to be rebuilt so that the sacrifices and offerings could again be ended is an absurd idea. Yet the doctrine basis all of this on a singular verse about Daniel's 70th week... Dan. 9:27

boldncourageous said:

I never stated that the temple could not be rebuilt. The fact remains such a building is a distraction from the true focus. The true temple of God is the hearts of men. To consider that God would desire a building, rather than the hearts of man belittles Him and places Him in a box.

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You're not listening.

The Jews don't care about what you say, which is alright from a Christian viewpoint, about the Temple being unnecessary.

So when prophecy indicates that a Temple will be where the man of lawlessness sets himself up (2Th 2:4) -

- and when Jesus says the abomination(s) (of) desolation is in the "Holy Place" (Mt 24:15) -

- all it says is that there will be a Temple.

This does not take away from our (true) focus: Christ Jesus and our continual faith in Him when we look at eschatology.

boldncourageous said:

I see prewrath folk as disgruntled pretribbers that have come to the conclusion that the pretrib doctrine is a total fabrication. However, because of the massive indoctrination they cannot see the distinction between thymos and ergo so they must have a division surrounding the concept of the English word for wrath... thus prewrath.

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You have a lot of fanciful, pejorative presuppositions - none of which apply.

Pre-Wrath is an intellectual outgrowth of looking at how the Bible sequences the Rapture to God's Wrath.