Eschatologioal Footing
- Thread starter blessedhope
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
And Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2;13
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
Try doing what Paul tells Titus to do before Jesus appears:
Titus 3:12 By His grace, we must renounce godless ways and worldly desires, to live a life of temperance, honesty and godliness in this present age.
Your attitude is far from it!
Titus 3:12 By His grace, we must renounce godless ways and worldly desires, to live a life of temperance, honesty and godliness in this present age.
Your attitude is far from it!
And I’m a false prophet and going to hell. Some question my salvation in very colorful ways, while others are just plain ticked off that I would believe in a Rapture at all.
[SIZE=14pt]Where does all this venomous hatred come from? The answer is obvious. Satan hates God’s Truth and will continue to fight against God and His chosen ones until his last breath. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Again, I strongly and without question believe in a Rapture of the true Church prior to the start of Daniel’s 70th week (the Tribulation). I would like to present the following for consideration. This is not original of course. Many others have presented these same arguments and I will use these same verses that others have pointed to.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At the Rapture, Jesus comes FOR His Church. Luke 21:36; John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 4:14-17, 5:9; Revelation 3:10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At His 2nd Coming, Jesus comes WITH His Church. Zechariah 14:5; Colossians 3:4; Revelation 19:7-8, 14; 21: 9-10; Matthew 24:29-31; Jude 1:14-15; 1 Thessalonians 3:13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At the Rapture, Jesus appears to only the Church: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 5:8; John 11:40 Hebrews 9:28[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At His 2nd Coming, He appears to everyone: Zechariah 14:4; Revelation 19:11-21; Revelation 1:7; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 24:30; Luke 3:6; John 19:37[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At the Rapture, only true Christians (the Church) are taken (those who are alive at that time and those who have died prior). Unbelievers (those not of the true Church) are left behind. Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:8-10; 4:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At His 2nd Coming, the wicked are taken. The righteous (Tribulation saints) are left behind. Matthew 13:28-30[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]There are many other stark differences between Christ coming for His bride (the Rapture) and His 2nd Coming (at the end of the Tribulation). The more these are considered, the clearer it becomes that the Rapture will occur, and it will occur before Daniel’s 70th week (the 7-year Tribulation).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Where does all this venomous hatred come from? The answer is obvious. Satan hates God’s Truth and will continue to fight against God and His chosen ones until his last breath. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Again, I strongly and without question believe in a Rapture of the true Church prior to the start of Daniel’s 70th week (the Tribulation). I would like to present the following for consideration. This is not original of course. Many others have presented these same arguments and I will use these same verses that others have pointed to.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At the Rapture, Jesus comes FOR His Church. Luke 21:36; John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 4:14-17, 5:9; Revelation 3:10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At His 2nd Coming, Jesus comes WITH His Church. Zechariah 14:5; Colossians 3:4; Revelation 19:7-8, 14; 21: 9-10; Matthew 24:29-31; Jude 1:14-15; 1 Thessalonians 3:13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At the Rapture, Jesus appears to only the Church: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 5:8; John 11:40 Hebrews 9:28[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At His 2nd Coming, He appears to everyone: Zechariah 14:4; Revelation 19:11-21; Revelation 1:7; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 24:30; Luke 3:6; John 19:37[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At the Rapture, only true Christians (the Church) are taken (those who are alive at that time and those who have died prior). Unbelievers (those not of the true Church) are left behind. Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:8-10; 4:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]At His 2nd Coming, the wicked are taken. The righteous (Tribulation saints) are left behind. Matthew 13:28-30[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]There are many other stark differences between Christ coming for His bride (the Rapture) and His 2nd Coming (at the end of the Tribulation). The more these are considered, the clearer it becomes that the Rapture will occur, and it will occur before Daniel’s 70th week (the 7-year Tribulation).[/SIZE]
And that's All I have to say and I will not ride this donkey K anymore there is a saying about swine , Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." (Matthew 7:6).
Of course, these words of Jesus are allegorical. I doubt that any were literally casting pearls before swine. The meaning is pretty simple to figure out; "Do not persist in offering what is sacred or of value to those who have no appreciation for it, because it will not only become contaminated and be despised
Of course, these words of Jesus are allegorical. I doubt that any were literally casting pearls before swine. The meaning is pretty simple to figure out; "Do not persist in offering what is sacred or of value to those who have no appreciation for it, because it will not only become contaminated and be despised
First you'll say there are no signs then you say when you see the signs look up.So just a simple question,how can the rapture be imminent?
This question is not to me but I would offer my two cents. The rapture can take place at any time. One can observe the religious and political nature of the world and can see how it could be set up for the Tribulation to begin. And if one is pre-trib, such as myself, then that would mean if the Tribulation looks ready to take place, then the rapture is at hand because it occurs before.n2thelight said:
But it is still up to God. Things can look like the Tribulation is ready to take place, but it is up to God to say when.
My question to you is what starts the seven year Tribulation?
Stranger
Stranger said:
What starts the trib is when satan gets kicked out of Heaven.The trib is all about deception,and that being satan pretending to be Christ.Also Im not understanding why many think this will last 7 years,when Christ said that time would be shortened...
When you ask most people who are the children of Israel, most will say the Jewish people. Well, they would be right to a point but the children of Israel are made up of more than just the Jewish people. Seeing that it was God's idea for the children of Israel and the nation of Israel, there is no better place to find information on their beginning than the Bible.
The first thing we need to know about the children of Israel is that Israel is the name of a man.
Genesis 32:28
V28 And He said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
God changes Jacob's name to Israel. This is the first time that the word Israel is used in the Bible.
Lets get some more information on Jacob.
Genesis 35:9-12
V9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padan-aram, and blessed him.
V10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and He called his name Israel.
The El at the end of Israel is one of the names of God. Israel means God rules.
V11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
God told Israel that "a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee". What most people call modern day Israel just does not fit all that description. God scattered the children of Israel and today most of the children of Israel do not even live in the nation of Israel. The nation of Israel today is mostly the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
V12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
The covenant that God made with Abraham, God has made with his grandson Jacob.
So far we have learned that it was Jacob that had his name changed to Israel and that God has passed on the Abrahmic covenant to him. We still need to learn if the children of Israel are only the Jewish people. In Genesis 49:1-28 is a list of the twelve sons of Israel and the blessing that their father Israel gave them. Here is a list of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Twelve tribes of Israel
Now we know all the names of the people that make up the tribes of Israel. Lets find out who the Jewish people descended from.
The word Jew is used ten times in the Old Testament and each time the same Hebrew word is used. Lets take a look at the definition of Jew from the Strong's Concordance.
Jew 3064 Yehuwdiy (yeh-hoo-dee'); patronymically from 3063; a Jehudite (i.e. Judaite or Jew), or descendant of Jehudah (i.e. Judah).
3063 Yehuwdah (yeh-hoo-daw'); from 3034; celebrated; Jehudah (or Judah), the name of five Israelites; also of the tribe descended from the first, and of its territory.
In the New Testament the word Jew is used twenty two times and each time the same Greek word is used. Lets take a look at the definition of Jew from the Strong's Concordance.
Jew 2453 Ioudaios (ee-oo-dah'-yos); from 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah.
2455 Ioudas (ee-oo-das'); of Hebrew origin [3063]; Judas (i.e. Jehudah), the name of ten Israelites; also of the posterity of one of them and its region.
So we see that people that have Jewish blood in them are descended from Judah. Israel's son, Judah, was the first Jewish person in the Bible.
So now you might be wondering what does this mean? What this means is that there are millions of people on earth today that have absolutely no idea that they are the true children of Israel. The Jewish people are only a part of the children of Israel, not all of them. Well if the Jewish people are only part of the children of Israel, where are the rest of them? To answer that question, I'll ask another question. Which nations on earth today are the most blessed? The Christian nations. Remember the blessing that Israel gave to Ephraim, one of Joseph's sons, that he would become a company of nations? Ephraim today is better known as Great Britain. What about Joseph's other son, Manasseh? In the blessing that Israel gave Manasseh, he said that Manasseh would become a great nation. Let me ask you this, which Christian nation is more blessed than any other? The United States of America. Manasseh is better know as the United States of America toady. Don't think for one minute that it is an accident that America is so blessed by Almighty God. Regardless of what some people would want you to believe, the United States of America is one nation under God and we always will be. People from every single tribe of the children of Israel live in the United States today. That is why the United States of America is more blessed by Almighty God than any other nation on earth today.
The first thing we need to know about the children of Israel is that Israel is the name of a man.
Genesis 32:28
V28 And He said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
God changes Jacob's name to Israel. This is the first time that the word Israel is used in the Bible.
Lets get some more information on Jacob.
Genesis 35:9-12
V9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padan-aram, and blessed him.
V10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and He called his name Israel.
The El at the end of Israel is one of the names of God. Israel means God rules.
V11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
God told Israel that "a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee". What most people call modern day Israel just does not fit all that description. God scattered the children of Israel and today most of the children of Israel do not even live in the nation of Israel. The nation of Israel today is mostly the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
V12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
The covenant that God made with Abraham, God has made with his grandson Jacob.
So far we have learned that it was Jacob that had his name changed to Israel and that God has passed on the Abrahmic covenant to him. We still need to learn if the children of Israel are only the Jewish people. In Genesis 49:1-28 is a list of the twelve sons of Israel and the blessing that their father Israel gave them. Here is a list of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Twelve tribes of Israel
- Reuben
- Simeon
- Levi
- Judah
- Zebulun
- Issachar
- Dan
- Gad
- Asher
- Naphtali
- Joseph
- Benjamin
Now we know all the names of the people that make up the tribes of Israel. Lets find out who the Jewish people descended from.
The word Jew is used ten times in the Old Testament and each time the same Hebrew word is used. Lets take a look at the definition of Jew from the Strong's Concordance.
Jew 3064 Yehuwdiy (yeh-hoo-dee'); patronymically from 3063; a Jehudite (i.e. Judaite or Jew), or descendant of Jehudah (i.e. Judah).
3063 Yehuwdah (yeh-hoo-daw'); from 3034; celebrated; Jehudah (or Judah), the name of five Israelites; also of the tribe descended from the first, and of its territory.
In the New Testament the word Jew is used twenty two times and each time the same Greek word is used. Lets take a look at the definition of Jew from the Strong's Concordance.
Jew 2453 Ioudaios (ee-oo-dah'-yos); from 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah.
2455 Ioudas (ee-oo-das'); of Hebrew origin [3063]; Judas (i.e. Jehudah), the name of ten Israelites; also of the posterity of one of them and its region.
So we see that people that have Jewish blood in them are descended from Judah. Israel's son, Judah, was the first Jewish person in the Bible.
So now you might be wondering what does this mean? What this means is that there are millions of people on earth today that have absolutely no idea that they are the true children of Israel. The Jewish people are only a part of the children of Israel, not all of them. Well if the Jewish people are only part of the children of Israel, where are the rest of them? To answer that question, I'll ask another question. Which nations on earth today are the most blessed? The Christian nations. Remember the blessing that Israel gave to Ephraim, one of Joseph's sons, that he would become a company of nations? Ephraim today is better known as Great Britain. What about Joseph's other son, Manasseh? In the blessing that Israel gave Manasseh, he said that Manasseh would become a great nation. Let me ask you this, which Christian nation is more blessed than any other? The United States of America. Manasseh is better know as the United States of America toady. Don't think for one minute that it is an accident that America is so blessed by Almighty God. Regardless of what some people would want you to believe, the United States of America is one nation under God and we always will be. People from every single tribe of the children of Israel live in the United States today. That is why the United States of America is more blessed by Almighty God than any other nation on earth today.
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
Those alive when the leader of the One World Govt comes to the nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, and makes a peace treaty with them, that commences the last seven years before the Return of Jesus. There will be peace for half of the 7 years, but at the mid point that leader will come to Jerusalem in force, Zechariah 14:1, and sit in the Temple, declaring himself to be god. This commences the Great Tribulation of 1260 days.Stranger said:
But it is the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, Revelation 6:12-17, that no one knows the day. We surely should know the season: that it will happen quite soon, is evident from the current world situation.
keraskeras said:
I agree with your time references of seven years for the Tribulation and 1260 days for the Great Tribulation, or 3 1/2 years.
You are saying we know when it starts, with the peace treaty. But we don't know ourselves now when that event will occur.
I agree that it could be very soon. From reading your posts we are in disagreement as to who goes through the Tribulation, the Rapture, and who Israel is.
Stranger
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
Who goes thru the Great Trib? Everyone on earth will experience the effects of what will happen, but there will be a group of people who kept faithful to God and refused to agree to the 7 year treaty with the AC. They will be taken far away and protected for that 1260 days. Rev 12:14Stranger said:
A 'rapture to heaven? Not going to happen, Jesus makes that clear: John 3:13, John 8:21-23, Rev 5:10
Who is Israel? Every true Christian, from every tribe, race, nation and language. Galatians 3:26-29, Isaiah 66:18-21, 1 Peter 2:9-10 They are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, all the true godly believers, everyone else are the ungodly peoples.
Thank you...If a Jew or anybody else for that matter dosn't have Christ ..They aint saved,period!!!!!
Concerning the verses you gave to disprove the rapture:keras said:
John 3:13 " And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. "
Enoch was taken into heaven. Heb. 11:5 " By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him:..."
Elijah was taken into heaven. 2 Kings 2:1 "And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, ...."
2 Kings 2:11 " ...and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. "
John 8:21-23 " Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come...."
Here Jesus is speaking to a people who will die in their sins. So, of course they cannot go to heaven.
Rev. 5:10 " And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. "
But they are in heaven already when they say this. Rev. 4:1 "After this I looked, and,behold,a door was opened in heaven:..Come up hither...."
Rev. 5:3 " And no man in heaven, nor in earth...was able to open the book....."
These verses show that men are in heaven.
I don't see how the verse you showed disprove the rapture.
Stranger
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
Well Stranger, you are obviously hooked on the idea of going to heaven.
I can disprove all of the above mistaken interpretations and mistranslations you use, but it would have no effect on you.
But what you do miss is the promises of God to His people, the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16. The whole New Testament is a extension of all the promises of God to Israel, to anyone who accepts the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and keeps the Commandments. People from every tribe, race, nation and language: Revelation 5:9-10
We Christians are the inheritors of the holy Land, Psalms 37:29, and are destined to be his witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, and a light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8
Where do you want to be? On earth doing God's will, the work He has destined us for, or in heaven, doing what?
I can disprove all of the above mistaken interpretations and mistranslations you use, but it would have no effect on you.
But what you do miss is the promises of God to His people, the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16. The whole New Testament is a extension of all the promises of God to Israel, to anyone who accepts the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and keeps the Commandments. People from every tribe, race, nation and language: Revelation 5:9-10
We Christians are the inheritors of the holy Land, Psalms 37:29, and are destined to be his witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, and a light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8
Where do you want to be? On earth doing God's will, the work He has destined us for, or in heaven, doing what?
Stranger said:
Hey stranger I agree people are in Heaven,all those who have died as a matter of fact,these are those that Christ brings back with Him at His one and only 2nd coming....
However the only way you all get a rapture is to seperate the Church from Israel,and that just simply not scripture....
keraskeras said:
Where do I want to be? I want to be where He is, doing whatever He wants. I want to be in the place He has prepared for me. John 14:2-3 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself: that where I am, there ye may be also."
I do believe God's promises to His people Israel. I just don't see that the Church and Israel are the same. And I don't see how the verses you give prove they are the same. I agree that the Church comes into the Abrahamic Covenant. But that does not make them Israel.
These things are good to discuss. They don't affect my or your salvation in Christ. But they help clear up things in the Scripture. So, when did Israel quit being Israel? And if the Church is Israel, why ever call it the Church?
Stranger
Similar threads
