Eschatologioal Footing

n2thelight said:

Hey stranger I agree people are in Heaven,all those who have died as a matter of fact,these are those that Christ brings back with Him at His one and only 2nd coming....

However the only way you all get a rapture is to seperate the Church from Israel,and that just simply not scripture....

Click to expand...

Why is that? I'm sure you believe the verses that are used by me to prove the rapture. You would just interpret them differently.

Stranger

The true Christian Ekklesia is Israel.
[SIZE=11pt]Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: the true Christian Church are designated by God to be Israelites. The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, only one Church, only one elect, whether they be Jew or Gentile by birth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deut. 33:3, Ezra 3:11 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Eph. 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isa 63:8, Hosea 11:1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Gal. 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalm 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Eze 34:12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chron. 29:14-18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Heb. 10:20-21, I Tim. 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deut. 27:9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians are the priests of God: Isa. 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Rev. 5:10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jer. 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Cor. 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Phil. 3:3, Col. 2:11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chron. 20:7, Psalm 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Rom. 4:13-18, Gal. 3:7& 29, John 4:23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deut. 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalm 105:7-10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] The New[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]Covenant is with Christians: 1 Cor. 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The above 10 proofs totally negate any argument that the Church and Israel are 2 separate entities. That premise is held and promoted by the pre-trib rapture exponents, who must have 2 groups; one removed to heaven, [themselves] and the Jews, [Israel] who remain on earth to face the Great Tribulation. The Jewish remnant eventually accept Jesus as Messiah. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]The truth is proven by how it is true Christian believers of every tribe [of Israel], nation and language: Revelation 5:9-10 & 7:9, who gather in the holy Land soon after the Sixth Seal judgement/punishment of the nations. Hab. 3:12 They will be assigned to an appropriate Israelite tribe, according to each family’s characteristics. Proved by Isaiah 66:21 Then the 144,000 will be selected, 12,000 from each tribe, to go out and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]This new nation in the Middle East, will be called Beulah; Isaiah 62:1-5 They will live in peace and prosperity and when a large army comes down from the North, God will destroy them. Ezekiel 38-39, Joel 2:20[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Sometime later, the President of the One World Government will come to Beulah and convince ‘many’ of them to sign a seven year treaty of peace. Daniel 11:27, Isaiah 28:14-15 This marks the commencement of the final seven years of this age and is the 70th year of Daniel 9:24, then at the mid-point, the O.W.G. dictator will invade and conquer Beulah. Zech. 14:1-2, Daniel 11:30-32, which triggers the Great Tribulation of the seven Trumpet and seven Bowl punishments. Rev. 12:7-13 But those Israelites who ‘faithful to their God’, will be taken to a place of safety, as described in Revelation 12:14. Then at the Return of Jesus, those faithful ones, the righteous ‘woman’ of Israel will experience a ‘rapture’ as they are gathered by the Lord’s angels ‘from the four winds’. Matthew 24:31 They will join the resurrected saints and will enjoy the great blessings of the Millennium. Isaiah 65:17-25 [79 scriptures][/SIZE]

keras

I see. You're one of those. You have a prescribed set of Scripture to defend what you want to say. And you spit it out irregardless of what questions were asked of you? Why? Because you can't answer the questions.

So why don't you just respond to my reply #40 instead of just repeating your robotic belief.

Stranger

Yes. I do have plenty of scripture to defend what I say. The truth is the truth of scripture, only because it doesn't fit with your beliefs, you object to it.

Israel started with Jacob and has always been the chosen people of God. The ones that believe in Him and keep His commandments. Added to that, since Jesus' advent, is the acceptance of His atoning sacrifice. Those who fail in any of these three requirements are not the Israel of God.
This means that the majority of the current inhabitants of the Land of Israel, are not the Lord's people at all and many prophesies say how the entire Middle east will be devastated soon. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18

keras said:

Yes. I do have plenty of scripture to defend what I say. The truth is the truth of scripture, only because it doesn't fit with your beliefs, you object to it.

Israel started with Jacob and has always been the chosen people of God. The ones that believe in Him and keep His commandments. Added to that, since Jesus' advent, is the acceptance of His atoning sacrifice. Those who fail in any of these three requirements are not the Israel of God.
This means that the majority of the current inhabitants of the Land of Israel, are not the Lord's people at all and many prophesies say how the entire Middle east will be devastated soon. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18

Click to expand...

So, when did Israel quit being Israel? And if the Church is Israel, why even call it the Church?

Stranger

The Jewish people quit being the Lord's people when they rejected Jesus.
The ten Northern tribes were exiled for their sins and apostasy, but God has not totally rejected them, Hosea 11:1-12, and now they are the Western Christian peoples, [verse 10....they will come speedily out of the West....] plus people from every race, nation and language, who now constitute the Israel of God. Galatians 3:26-29

Yes, calling the Lord's true Christian people, the Church, is a misnomer because of the many false doctrines and teachings. A better name for us is Nazarene, followers of Jesus of Nazareth.

keras said:

The Jewish people quit being the Lord's people when they rejected Jesus.
The ten Northern tribes were exiled for their sins and apostasy, but God has not totally rejected them, Hosea 11:1-12, and now they are the Western Christian peoples, [verse 10....they will come speedily out of the West....] plus people from every race, nation and language, who now constitute the Israel of God. Galatians 3:26-29

Yes, calling the Lord's true Christian people, the Church, is a misnomer because of the many false doctrines and teachings. A better name for us is Nazarene, followers of Jesus of Nazareth.

Click to expand...

That wasn't what I asked. I asked, when did Israel quit being Israel?

In Hosea 1:6-9 God says He will scatter Israel in judgement and will not be their God. " ...for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away...for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God."

But then God promises to reinstate Israel. Hosea 1:10-11 " Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea...in the place where it was said unto them, ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together...."

Is Israel being addressed in Hosea 1:6-9? Is Israel being addressed in Hosea 1:10-11?


Christ liked the term 'church'. Matt. 16:18 "...and upon this rock I will build my church ...." So, I will stick with that. But again, you evade my question. If the Church is true Israel, why even call it the Church. Why not just address Israel throughout the New Testament?

Stranger

Israel never quit being Israel they just don't know who they are....

Matthew 10:6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Now does this say "go to the Jews", or "Go to Judah"? No. It says "Go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel". The sons of Judah know where they are, and who they are; there is nothing lost about them. In fact, when these Jews came to Jesus in their self-righteous attitude, they came to trick Him up, because of this He would answer their questions in parables to keep the kingdom message a mystery from them. Jesus didn't even imply that the disciples should go to the House of Judah.

If you are lost, it means that that person doesn't know who they are. They are not in Jerusalem anymore, but gone to another area completely, and lost their identity to themselves. As a Christian, it should be your priority to learn who these lost "House of Israel" are, or you will not be able to rightly divide the Word of truth. To understand the parables that Jesus Christ taught you need to understand the parable of the sower concerning the children of the good and the bad; which is the prime root to the "key of David"

This is a very simple message, but it is a total mystery to much of the church world today, and they attach the Jews, good and bad, as the lost sheep of the House of Israel. God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and that message continues right to today. So how do you prepare yourself to go out and plant the seed of the word of God, when the simplest parts of God's mystery are over looked?


http://www.theseason.org/matthew/matthew10.htm

Stranger said:

That wasn't what I asked. I asked, when did Israel quit being Israel?

In Hosea 1:6-9 God says He will scatter Israel in judgement and will not be their God. " ...for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away...for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God."

But then God promises to reinstate Israel. Hosea 1:10-11 " Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea...in the place where it was said unto them, ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together...."

Is Israel being addressed in Hosea 1:6-9? Is Israel being addressed in Hosea 1:10-11?


Christ liked the term 'church'. Matt. 16:18 "...and upon this rock I will build my church ...." So, I will stick with that. But again, you evade my question. If the Church is true Israel, why even call it the Church. Why not just address Israel throughout the New Testament?

Stranger

Click to expand...

The actual word translated as 'church', is 'ekkelasia'. This means simply a gathering or congregation of believers.
The word ; church' has connotations of building's - cathedrals, chapels, property, etc, or denominations and the hundreds of differing sects and cults.

Thanks n2thelight, the truth about the Western peoples origins, is a well kept secret as God wanted it to be. But His promises to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying all of the holy Land and being a light to the nations, will come to pass. Isaiah 49:6-8
The New Testament makes it perfectly clear just who the Israel of God are. Galatians 6:16 Every true righteous Christian is deemed to be an Israelite in the sight of God. Romans 9:6-8, Psalm 73:1, 1 Peter 2:9-10

keras said:

The actual word translated as 'church', is 'ekkelasia'. This means simply a gathering or congregation of believers.
The word ; church' has connotations of building's - cathedrals, chapels, property, etc, or denominations and the hundreds of differing sects and cults.

Thanks n2thelight, the truth about the Western peoples origins, is a well kept secret as God wanted it to be. But His promises to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying all of the holy Land and being a light to the nations, will come to pass. Isaiah 49:6-8
The New Testament makes it perfectly clear just who the Israel of God are. Galatians 6:16 Every true righteous Christian is deemed to be an Israelite in the sight of God. Romans 9:6-8, Psalm 73:1, 1 Peter 2:9-10

Click to expand...

Though 'Church' is often times referring to buildings in the English language, I and most Christians I know, know that it comes from the word 'ekklesia' which speaks to the called out ones and not a building. But again you evade the question. Why is Christ building His 'ekklesia' or 'church'? Why is there a name change? Why not just speak of Israel?

And, why don't you answer my questions concerning the verses in Hosea?

Stranger

Hosea 14:4-9 I shall heal My peoples apostasy, I shall love them freely for My anger is turned away from them. They will flourish once again in My shadow and will grow vigorously in the holy Land. Ephraim, [the leader of the ten Northern tribes] you will no longer look to any idols and I declare that I will shelter and prosper you.
Who is wise? He will realize these things. Who is discerning? He will understand them. Jeremiah 9:12 The ways of the Lord are right and the righteous follow them, but the rebellious will stumble. James 1:21

The repeatedly prophesied Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath will happen, He has done it before with a flood, in Noah’s time. This time, it will be a terrifying and shocking event, a worldwide “time of anguish”, Daniel 12:1, a terrible fire graphically described over 100 times throughout the Bible. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, etc. It will happen before the Return of Jesus in His glory, proved by how the Lord’s Christian people will “dwell in His shadow and under the Lord’s shelter”. This is the completion of the prophecies of how the Lord’s people will live in peace and security in the Holy Land and the fulfilment of His promises to the Patriarchs. Ezekiel 34:11-16...I will rescue My people scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness and bring them to their own country.

keras said:

a terrible fire graphically described over 100 times throughout the Bible. Isaiah 30:26,

Click to expand...

Isaiah 30:26 describes what happens "...on the day the Lord binds up the fracture of His people and heals the bruise He has inflicted."

It is not part of God's Wrath on the Day of the Lord no matter what rabbi keras says.

keras said:

Hosea 14:4-9 I shall heal My peoples apostasy, I shall love them freely for My anger is turned away from them. They will flourish once again in My shadow and will grow vigorously in the holy Land. Ephraim, [the leader of the ten Northern tribes] you will no longer look to any idols and I declare that I will shelter and prosper you.
Who is wise? He will realize these things. Who is discerning? He will understand them. Jeremiah 9:12 The ways of the Lord are right and the righteous follow them, but the rebellious will stumble. James 1:21

The repeatedly prophesied Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath will happen, He has done it before with a flood, in Noah’s time. This time, it will be a terrifying and shocking event, a worldwide “time of anguish”, Daniel 12:1, a terrible fire graphically described over 100 times throughout the Bible. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, etc. It will happen before the Return of Jesus in His glory, proved by how the Lord’s Christian people will “dwell in His shadow and under the Lord’s shelter”. This is the completion of the prophecies of how the Lord’s people will live in peace and security in the Holy Land and the fulfilment of His promises to the Patriarchs. Ezekiel 34:11-16...I will rescue My people scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness and bring them to their own country.

Click to expand...

Because you refuse to answer the questions I have asked I say this: You find it much easier to produce a 'bible study' than answering questions pertaining to what you are teaching. As all of us would. But, you need to answer these questions to provoke thinking on your part instead of just producing your common belief.

Stranger

In both the Thessalonian Letters the principal theme is the rapture of the saints. The word ‘rapture’ means ‘to be caught up’ or ’snatched away’, and that is precisely what will happen to all believers as soon as the Church is complete.

Click to expand...

And who are the believers, do you think jsut because someone goes to church makes them a believer, Jesus obviously though not.

Mat_15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

we look at the outside God only deals with the inside, if your judgemenst are based on outward appearences than you will never understand.

Marcus O'Reillius said:

Isaiah 30:26 describes what happens "...on the day the Lord binds up the fracture of His people and heals the bruise He has inflicted."

It is not part of God's Wrath on the Day of the Lord no matter what rabbi keras says.

Click to expand...

Read the context of Isaiah 30:25-33 and still think a CME is not part of God's wrath, would you?
Yes, that terrible Day will be the one where His people will be protected and their sins forgiven, but only those true Christians who call out in faith to Him. Acts 2:21.
Those who have fallen for Satans lies and expect to be raptured may experience some difficulty.

Stranger said:

Because you refuse to answer the questions I have asked I say this: You find it much easier to produce a 'bible study' than answering questions pertaining to what you are teaching. As all of us would. But, you need to answer these questions to provoke thinking on your part instead of just producing your common belief.

Stranger

Click to expand...

Sorry, Stranger, your comments are incomprehensible and seem to be just a provocation.
Ask a specific question and I will answer it.

keras said:

Read the context of Isaiah 30:25-33 and still think a CME is not part of God's wrath, would you?

Click to expand...

Your reference for a coronal mass ejection is bunk.

The ONLY way you make it out to be so is when you "rewrote" Isaiah. That is fraud on the highest order, and how dare you rewrite Scripture to make it say what you want to say.

keras said:

Sorry, Stranger, your comments are incomprehensible and seem to be just a provocation.
Ask a specific question and I will answer it.

Click to expand...

Is Israel being addressed in Hosea 1:6-9?

Is Israel being addressed in Hosea 1:10-11?

If the Church is Israel why the name change?

Why did Christ say 'upon this rock I will build my church'? Matt.16:18

Why didn't Christ say 'upon this rock I am building Israel'?

Stranger

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 3:9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jer 3:10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
Jer 3:11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.

Teh Jew are from the tribe of Judah, israel consists off the other 11 tribes or 12 as it may be, they are the ones that are hidden, theer are some really good videos on the topic " looking for teh lost tribes of israel". I used to beleiev tha tweh nChrist spoke of teh othe rflock He meant us, but He meant Israel as teh other flock for it was for the lost sheep of Israel that He came . We are gentiles. our time will come, we are from a different path, first to teh Jews than to teh gentiles. We are of Grace they are of the law. Christ came to show them teh better way, but like some christians the ychoose the old.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

So much to learn so much to understand, only through Cjist do we get truth wisdom and understanding.

Stranger, read #32.
Check all the scriptures I quote and then realize the truth of who are the true Israel of God.