Was James confused?

mjrhealth said:

We are not Jews

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We are adopted Jews of the spiritual kind. Salvation is of the Jews.

face2face said:

We are adopted Jews of the spiritual kind. Salvation is of the Jews.

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Salvation in through Jesus Christ not teh Jews. Teh Jews are only one of the 12 tribes of Israel, just being pondering that one...

mjrhealth said:

We are not Jews

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And yet, a "circumcision" is still required of you.

Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Deu 30:6 And YHVH thy God will circumcise thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love YHVH thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Which, is what the Prophets also spoke of.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; 20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith YHVH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith YHVH. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith YHVH: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

Which is quoted in Hebrews 8.

Will the uncircumcised of heart enter the "Kingdom?

mjrhealth said:

Salvation in through Jesus Christ not teh Jews. Teh Jews are only one of the 12 tribes of Israel, just being pondering that one...

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True and Jesus is a Jew...I think that's his point.

Richard_oti said:

Will the uncircumcised of heart enter the "Kingdom?

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Now we are again adding too, so much for Grace through faith, we have the law. going to church, being water baptized, reading teh bible, I can only assume Jesus didnt Give us His all when He died on that cross, seems for christianity in general, it was never enough, and they insist they can do a better job and would rather pay there own way. Maybe JEsus just made it toooo simple for men...

mjrhealth said:

Now we are again adding too, so much for Grace through faith, we have the law. going to church, being water baptized, reading teh bible, I can only assume Jesus didnt Give us His all when He died on that cross, seems for christianity in general, it was never enough, and they insist they can do a better job and would rather pay there own way. Maybe JEsus just made it toooo simple for men...

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The circumcision of the heart is not of men. It is of and done by "God".

Your argument above is like saying that receiving the "Holy Spirit" is also adding and so much for "Grace through faith".

Rom 2:29b circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God

Col 2:11 in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ;

If Jesus is the Passover Lamb, may those who remain uncircumcised of heart partake in the Kingdom to come? Not a physical circumcision, but one of the heart.

Will the uncircumcised of heart enter the "Kingdom?

mjrhealth said:

Salvation in through Jesus Christ not teh Jews. Teh Jews are only one of the 12 tribes of Israel, just being pondering that one...

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the ten tribes were dispersed, you prolly got some anyway lol, and anyway you are adopted in bro, it is a valid persp

face2face said:

True and Jesus is a Jew...I think that's his point.

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Yes He was a Jew, but that was because He needed to be to fullfill te hrequirements, n

bbyrd009 said:

the ten tribes were dispersed, you prolly got some anyway lol, and anyway you are adopted in bro, it is a valid persp

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Yes teh other 11, watched plenty of videos on that one, if teh old covenant was needed, God would never have allowed it, but if it is right, which i do not know, they will come back together for one more sacrifice.

mjrhealth said:

Yes He was a Jew, but that was because He needed to be to fullfill te hrequirements,

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The Jews were given the promises and the my all yes in Jesus.

We are grafted in to their promises.

face2face said:

The Jews were given the promises and the my all yes in Jesus.

We are grafted in to their promises.

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And again in teh end of it all, it by grace we are saved by faith, and some well God has His ways.

mjrhealth said:

We are not Jews

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You should read posts before jumping in.
I'M NOT the one asking about circumcision.

"ByGrace" said:

Oh another response and continually side stepping my questions.
Answer them...tell us how it is DONE. How you do it..etc...
You are like the Pharisees..you hang weights on believers, but you don't tell us HOW you get the job of law keeping done..or how perfect you are now since you first begun.
Answer truthfully..you, and the others who put this weight onto believers.

.....Tell us how well you are LIVING IT?

........How well are you actually DOING THIS??

............How is really it working ... YOU??

Waiting.........

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Believing the law has been done away with and teaching others the same is a very dangerous belief to follow.
Mathew 5:19

"ByGrace" said:

Dah...as if I didn't know that!

I do notice you posted in reference to the post you quoted of mine...BUT YOU DID NOT answer the question that I asked from all of you who maintain that God requires NT believers (who were never given the law to keep a law that He never gave them!)

Answer the questions or stop keep brow beating believer that God requires us to keep the law.
It is a lie. It is false teaching, it is error...
YOU go ahead, live under what you CHOOSE to believe and live by..but stop nagging others to do what has never been required of them by God.
Get you own life sorted out and stop nagging others.

Answer truthfully..you, and the others who put this weight onto believers.

.....Tell us how well you are LIVING IT?

........How well are you actually DOING THIS??

............How is really it working ... YOU??

It's easy to keep on and on about 'what God requires of us...iIF He requires it..make it easy for the rest of us...how does it actually WORK?
This is important.
You have said here that you are a teacher...a teacher doesn't tell student what they should be doing, without telling them How to do it. So..the floor is yours...how do you keep all the laws, the old and the New ones?

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Why are you so upset all the time at persons who are trying to do as God would want us to do?

You could disobey Him if you wish, but it is NOT why Jesus died for you.
Peter lived with Jesus for years.

Hear what Peter says:
2 Peter 1:3-12
He exhorts us to good moral values and godliness.


3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
12 Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you.

Also see
1 Timothy 4:8-11
We labor and strive.


8 for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.
10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
11 Prescribe and teach these things.



Also see
1 Thessalonians 4:1-4
What instruction?
What commandments?
The will of God is our sanctification...NOT already received, but to be worked for in cooperation with God.

1 Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;
4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,

GodsGrace said:

Believing the law has been done away with and teaching others the same is a very dangerous belief to follow.
Mathew 5:19

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There are worse things like adding stumbling blocks before men, in insisting they keep laws that they cannot. The Israelites failed, what makes you better than them?? Grace or the law which is it, one or the other?? A bit like insisting youll keep teh law but knowing that if you fail, which you do, than grace will pick up the slack. Sitting on the fence is it not... Or is it , ill keep teh law but when I fail i dont want to be judged by it, makes it rather pointless keeping it does it not. So by whos righteousness will you enter in, yours or His...

mjrhealth said:

There are worse things like adding stumbling blocks before men, in insisting they keep laws that they cannot. The Israelites failed, what makes you better than them?? Grace or the law which is it, one or the other?? A bit like insisting youll keep teh law but knowing that if you fail, which you do, than grace will pick up the slack. Sitting on the fence is it not... Or is it , ill keep teh law but when I fail i dont want to be judged by it, makes it rather pointless keeping it does it not. So by whos righteousness will you enter in, yours or His...

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The stumbling blocks are being put in place by those who proclaim that the law is abolished (the moral law), and that God does not demand obedience. Obedience is the proof of our faith. The bible is full of verses stating that man can be righteous:

Whoever pursues righteousness and love
finds life, prosperity and honor.
Proverbs 21:21 | NIV | love life

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
Romans 2:6 | NIV | reward

But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
1 Timothy 6:11 | NIV | faith love

For the Lord loves the just
and will not forsake his faithful ones.
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed;
the offspring of the wicked will perish.
Psalm 37:28 | NIV | eternal life reliability

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Galatians 6:7 | NIV | God


Surely the righteous will never be shaken;
they will be remembered forever.
Psalm 112:6 | NIV

But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Matthew 6:33 | NIV | food kingdom

Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Galatians 6:9 | NIV | reward patience

To do what is right and just
is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.
Proverbs 21:3 | NIV | honesty sacrifice

But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened.”
1 Peter 3:14 | NIV | suffering fear

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Corinthians 5:21 | NIV | sin mediator
(being IN HIM means we obey Him)

Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.
1 Thessalonians 5:15 | NIV | blameless evil

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Philippians 4:8 | NIV | truth thoughts

The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
and his ears are attentive to their cry.
Psalm 34:15 | NIV | listening

Ill-gotten treasures have no lasting value,
but righteousness delivers from death.
Proverbs 10:2 | NIV | honesty money

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.
Titus 2:11-12 | NIV | mercy salvation world

Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers.
Psalm 1:1 | NIV | sin blessing

Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
James 3:18 | NIV | peace

And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.
Luke 6:33 | NIV | reward

A wicked person earns deceptive wages,
but the one who sows righteousness reaps a sure reward.
Proverbs 11:18 | NIV | sin reward

I seek you with all my heart;
do not let me stray from your commands.
Psalm 119:10 | NIV | law heart

Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4:8 | NIV | sin purification repentance

mjrhealth said:

they will come back together for one more sacrifice.

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ha well you already know that is the counterfeit tho

you are the 'one more sacrifice'

"ByGrace" said:

It's easy to keep on and on about 'what God requires of us...iIF He requires it..make it easy for the rest of us...how does it actually WORK?

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oh, this is what your new thread was about? so maybe i didn't answer in there with that understanding; but i might be able to stand in the gap here if you'll answer a simple question, please say when the last time someone came to you with a complaint against you in private, don't need the details just the date, and if you like, a general description of the resolution/outcome would also be helpful.

the point i will hopefully be able to make here is that new believers need a foundation laid, but meat eaters do not need to be constantly re-laying this foundation. You do something harder than keeping the law now. It is more work. You might do it joyfully and of your own free will, and there is surely a sense in which it is easier also, because you are no longer conflicted about what to do spiritually, but you are in a completely different realm now than someone still struggling with sin imo, a different "court."

You have "gone on to the..." whatever the phrase is, yes? Or, since agreeing might be perceived as bragging, my opening Q there will be made to serve imo.

GodsGrace said:

The stumbling blocks are being put in place by those who proclaim that the law is abolished (the moral law), and that God does not demand obedience. Obedience is the proof of our faith. The bible is full of verses stating that man can be righteous:

Whoever pursues righteousness and love
finds life, prosperity and honor.
Proverbs 21:21 | NIV | love life

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
Romans 2:6 | NIV | reward

But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
1 Timothy 6:11 | NIV | faith love

For the Lord loves the just
and will not forsake his faithful ones.
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed;
the offspring of the wicked will perish.
Psalm 37:28 | NIV | eternal life reliability

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Galatians 6:7 | NIV | God


Surely the righteous will never be shaken;
they will be remembered forever.
Psalm 112:6 | NIV

But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Matthew 6:33 | NIV | food kingdom

Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Galatians 6:9 | NIV | reward patience

To do what is right and just
is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.
Proverbs 21:3 | NIV | honesty sacrifice

But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened.”
1 Peter 3:14 | NIV | suffering fear

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Corinthians 5:21 | NIV | sin mediator
(being IN HIM means we obey Him)

Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.
1 Thessalonians 5:15 | NIV | blameless evil

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Philippians 4:8 | NIV | truth thoughts

The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
and his ears are attentive to their cry.
Psalm 34:15 | NIV | listening

Ill-gotten treasures have no lasting value,
but righteousness delivers from death.
Proverbs 10:2 | NIV | honesty money

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.
Titus 2:11-12 | NIV | mercy salvation world

Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers.
Psalm 1:1 | NIV | sin blessing

Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
James 3:18 | NIV | peace

And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.
Luke 6:33 | NIV | reward

A wicked person earns deceptive wages,
but the one who sows righteousness reaps a sure reward.
Proverbs 11:18 | NIV | sin reward

I seek you with all my heart;
do not let me stray from your commands.
Psalm 119:10 | NIV | law heart

Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4:8 | NIV | sin purification repentance

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great stuff Ami, fabulous for oh, Sunday School 101, or iow the right audience, yes.

mjrhealth said:

Now we are again adding too, so much for Grace through faith, we have the law. going to church, being water baptized, reading teh bible, I can only assume Jesus didnt Give us His all when He died on that cross, seems for christianity in general, it was never enough, and they insist they can do a better job and would rather pay there own way. Maybe JEsus just made it toooo simple for men...

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we argue apples and oranges here, pablum and meat imo. There is the foundation, and then there is building on the foundation, and one will argue works v grace until they figure out that they are not versus each other at all.

mjrhealth said:

And again in teh end of it all, it by grace we are saved by faith, and some well God has His ways.

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amen. A million plus Hebrews walked under the Door, and left Egypt free men; but only two made it to the Promised Land, by following, yes? Following was all they had to do.