Born Again ?

buddyt said:

When you read with understanding you can clearly see we were all with the Father before being placed in these flesh bodies. Every last soul must pass through this Earth Age to be worthy of eternal life.

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Marymog said:

He then explains to Nicodemus what being born from above means by saying, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

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Windmillcharge said:

Sorry Mary,
Jesus was talking about a spiritual rebirth, saying 'you must be born again.'
There is nothing about baptism in this passage, it is all about belief in Jesus.
Those who believe in him have life, those who do not believe in him are condemned.

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Jun2u said:

I too agree the word Jesus used was the word ANOTHEN.

Scripture speaks of two baptisms. One literal that uses water as the element, and the other is spiritual that implements both water and of the Spirit. Note I said “water and of the Spirit” and not water alone or Spirit alone. This is very important to note.

I’ve noticed you’ve underlined the word “water” and not the word “Spirit.” Is this because your church teaches water baptism and not Spirit baptism, or perhaps your church believes water baptism is much more essential for salvation than Spirit baptism?

Why do you suppose Jesus said, “you must be born of water and of the Spirit?” Because, water and Spirit are essential to get into the kingdom of God. Before continuing, we must first search out the Scriptures to learn how God defines the word “water”,and not as we think it as “H2o.”

Sure enough after searching the Scriptures we find the account about the woman at the well in John 4:7-14. We all know the story so I’ll fast forward to verse 14 where Jesus said: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 7:38 reads: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”

Romans 10:17 reads: “Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

These verses tell us, the true believers are God’s ambassadors and have the power to go into all the world and proclaim the Gospel of God.

In conclusion, water baptism is NOT essential for salvation as we see also the thief on the cross was not baptize with water, and confirmed by Peter in 2 Peter 3:21, “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.”

BTW, the word “baptize” means “to wash.” Immediately we sense that “washing” relates to salvation. The washing that God has in view is the “washing of regeneration” (Titus 3:5), for this is what Jesus did on the cross, to wash away the filthy dirty rotten sins off of our bodies, and become blameless before God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit John 3:6.

I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory

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Marymog said:

Hi and Thank you. I don't disagree with you. I guess we just have to figure out who the "true believers" are????

Who do you think they are? Only those that are born again?

Thinking back to the time I wrote that I am not sure why I underlined the word water. I think I wanted to emphasize what He and the Apostles did right after that. They went and baptized with water.

We also receive the Spirit when we are baptized with water: Acts 2:38, Matthew 28:19-20, 1 Corinthians 12:13

Just like what happened to Jesus: John 1:29-33

Hope that helps clarify.

IHS....Mary

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buddyt said:

Sorry but to just believe in him isn't enough. Even Satan himself believes in him.

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Windmillcharge said:

There is belief that there is a God, which the devil has and there is belief that Jesus is my saviour and the consquencal changes in behaviour that follow from such a belief.

The devil believes but does nothing about that belief.

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Marymog said:

Hi,

I don't disagree with you. It is a spiritual rebirth since we are "being born of.....Spirit" (Matthew 3:16, Luke 3:16, Acts 2:38) when we are baptized. We are ALSO "being born of water....". (John3:5) We can't ignore the water part and pretend it wasn't written!!

So I ask you, in your opinion, what is the "water" He speaks of in "being born of water"?

Curious Mary

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Windmillcharge said:

Of the passages you quote only one talks about being baptised in water.
I don't dismiss baptism, I think it is very important, but I also don't give it any powers.
For me baptism is a step of obedience and of public witness that one is a Christian.

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twinc said:

you and many others must give up leading yourself and many others astray by relying on your own interpretations being inspired or guided - here we are clearly told what baptism is really all about at Matt 3:16-17 - twinc

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Windmillcharge said:

Of the passages you quote only one talks about being baptised in water.
I don't dismiss baptism, I think it is very important, but I also don't give it any powers.
For me baptism is a step of obedience and of public witness that one is a Christian.

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twinc said:

you and many others must give up leading yourself and many others astray by relying on your own interpretations being inspired or guided - here we are clearly told what baptism is really all about at Matt 3:16-17 - twinc

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Jun2u said:

I too agree the word Jesus used was the word ANOTHEN.

adding error to error or two wrongs do not make it right - non Christians including not just Nicodemus but also the thief on the cross must be born again as little Christian children - no ifs or buts - twinc



Scripture speaks of two baptisms. One literal that uses water as the element, and the other is spiritual that implements both water and of the Spirit. Note I said “water and of the Spirit” and not water alone or Spirit alone. This is very important to note.

I’ve noticed you’ve underlined the word “water” and not the word “Spirit.” Is this because your church teaches water baptism and not Spirit baptism, or perhaps your church believes water baptism is much more essential for salvation than Spirit baptism?

Why do you suppose Jesus said, “you must be born of water and of the Spirit?” Because, water and Spirit are essential to get into the kingdom of God. Before continuing, we must first search out the Scriptures to learn how God defines the word “water”,and not as we think it as “H2o.”

Sure enough after searching the Scriptures we find the account about the woman at the well in John 4:7-14. We all know the story so I’ll fast forward to verse 14 where Jesus said: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 7:38 reads: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”

Romans 10:17 reads: “Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

These verses tell us, the true believers are God’s ambassadors and have the power to go into all the world and proclaim the Gospel of God.

In conclusion, water baptism is NOT essential for salvation as we see also the thief on the cross was not baptize with water, and confirmed by Peter in 2 Peter 3:21, “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.”

BTW, the word “baptize” means “to wash.” Immediately we sense that “washing” relates to salvation. The washing that God has in view is the “washing of regeneration” (Titus 3:5), for this is what Jesus did on the cross, to wash away the filthy dirty rotten sins off of our bodies, and become blameless before God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit John 3:6.

I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory

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Marymog said:

Really???? Jesus came up out of the water (Matthew) AND I baptize you with water (John) CLEARLY refer to being baptized with water. How does only ONE of them talk about water?

Acts also says be baptized and WASH away your sins. That sounds like POWER to me.....using WATER.

If you learn your Christian history you would also know that your statement is opposite of what was written by our Christian brothers that walked and talked with the Apostles and their students 2,000 years ago.

YOUR belief does not match up with scripture and 2,000 years of Christian history, practice or teaching.

Your belief DOES match up with 500 years of Protestant teaching.

IHS....Mary

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amadeus said:

Please Twinc, please share with us with what you believe they mean. You say that they speak clearly. So then how has anyone misinterpreted them?

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matt 3:16-17

So then Jesus had been immersed in the water since it reads that he "went up...out of the water". Then the "Spirit of God" lighted upon him. This we would assume to be the baptism of the Holy Spirit also an immersion, but this one was not of water, but of the Spirit.
How then do you connect these verses from the Apostle Paul?

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph 4:4-5

Why only one?

But in this thread we have read only about 1] water and 2] Holy Spirit baptisms. There are at least three other baptisms mentioned or alluded to in scripture that come to mind now. Some may overlap or equal the two mentioned:

3] Fire: "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Matt 3:11 [Must we not go through the fire that is to burn away all of the garbage that we have taken on in order to be what God wants us to be?]

4] Body: "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." I Cor 12:13

5] Death: "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Rom 6:4

Are there any others? Can you twinc, or anyone explain them all and then also why Paul writes of only one baptism?

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twinc said:

all this and much else also alas and sadly because we cannot and simply will not simply simply believe as required and requested - it seems there is still that unwillingness and doubt "did God really say" that everything that is written is written so that we may simply simply believe that Jesus is the son of God and our saviour and that simply simply believing this we may have life in His Name - twinc

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Marymog said:

Hi,

I don't disagree with you. It is a spiritual rebirth since we are "being born of.....Spirit" (Matthew 3:16, Luke 3:16, Acts 2:38) when we are baptized. We are ALSO "being born of water....". (John3:5) We can't ignore the water part and pretend it wasn't written!!

So I ask you, in your opinion, what is the "water" He speaks of in "being born of water"?

Curious Mary

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APAK said:

Mary: Topic is really important. The scripture of John 3:5-6 is not about Jesus' baptism or of a new believer in my view. That is for other scripture passages. Cannot run these verse and subjects all together that seem congruent....confusion results

John 3:5..Born of the Water and Spirit….means: born naturally in the water of the mother’s womb and spiritually with the spirit of God’s bosom…two type of births…...John 3:6.. born of the flesh is flesh born of the spirit is spirit.

In context of verse 5 and 6…they must harmonize…this is not about baptism as outward sign/commitment to the spiritual birth and being a new believer. In this case however it is all about being born by a mother.

Jesus was born naturally by water and the spirit…he was the first and only believer from a natural water birth of woman…..we are not….we need God to regenerate and kick-start our heart with his spirit…so we can also partake of the divine nature as Jesus had since his birth..

Really don’t want to get side tracked with the baptism of Jesus that made him, the Christ...although there is a tie in... His baptism was not really necessary for the purpose of his rebirth to spiritual life. He performed it for two reasons: for the process that a new believer must do for divinity sake; as he already partook of the divine nature from birth. Secondly, Jesus’ baptism was for officially acknowledging, in agreement to do the will of his Father’s plan to the cross in front of all creation. For that, his Father was very pleased, and he gained the power of his Father and they both worked as one spirit to complete the plan of salvation for mankind. And it was a success…

Bless you,

APAK

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bbyrd009 said:

you can "simply simply" believe your whole life, and never pick up your cross, i guess

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