Speaking in Tongues a Cessationist View

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CoreIssue

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This was one of our antennas, a canvas balloon bag lined with silver. We had two facing north to Hue and two facing south to Quangnai. When I first arrived in the country we went off the air long enough to raised the tower on which they were attached from 40 feet to 60 feet to improve reception.View attachment 5756

We had satellite dishes on Guam. They were used by radiomen. Not secure enough for what we handled.

They were all in big white plastic bubbles.
 

amadeus

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We had satellite dishes on Guam. They were used by radiomen. Not secure enough for what we handled.

They were all in big white plastic bubbles.
I understand. Ours were definitely NOT secure in that sense.

If I am remembering correctly we had 32 voice channels and 16 teletype channels. At the time our equipment provided mainline communications for the nation of South Viet Nam as well as for the military. Quite likely the Viet Cong used our channels through the civilian channels their communications. My station was located on the Danang Air Base secured physically by the US Air Force as initially we had no available US Army combat troops. At the first the closest non-Air Force US military were two companies of US Marines located a few miles out of Danang. My tour began in August of 1964 and but in January of 1965 the first large contingents of US Marines hit the beach in Danang. When arrived in 1964 there were 16,000 US troops in the country. When I left in 1965, there were 65,000, most of the difference were combat troops.
 

CoreIssue

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I understand. Ours were definitely NOT secure in that sense.

If I am remembering correctly we had 32 voice channels and 16 teletype channels. At the time our equipment provided mainline communications for the nation of South Viet Nam as well as for the military. Quite likely the Viet Cong used our channels through the civilian channels their communications. My station was located on the Danang Air Base secured physically by the US Air Force as initially we had no available US Army combat troops. At the first the closest non-Air Force US military were two companies of US Marines located a few miles out of Danang. My tour began in August of 1964 and but in January of 1965 the first large contingents of US Marines hit the beach in Danang. When arrived in 1964 there were 16,000 US troops in the country. When I left in 1965, there were 65,000, most of the difference were combat troops.

As far as eavesdropping both the Chinese and Russians were listening. We even had a Russian "fishing trawler”permanently stationed offshore.

One time we went clear and exchanged Christmas greetings. Then destroyed all records.

We had a whole room full of encryption equipment.

We and the equipment were only allowed in green zones.

Going from Scotland to GUAM the shortest distance was to fly east. I had to fly West. Over 100 hour trip.

Something funny you may appreciate is I was instructed to not fly in uniform, not shave and no hair cut.
 
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amadeus

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As far as eavesdropping both the Chinese and Russians were listening. We even had a Russian "fishing trawler”permanently stationed offshore.

One time we went clear and exchanged Christmas greetings. Then destroyed all records.

We had a whole room full of encryption equipment.

We and the equipment were only allowed in green zones.

Going from Scotland to GUAM the shortest distance was to fly east. I had to fly West. Over 100 hour trip.

Something funny you may appreciate is I was instructed to not fly in uniform, not shave and no hair cut.

People are people everywhere no matter what we may have heard or read supposedly even from those supposedly on our side.

In Viet Nam we were never allow long hair on our heads or facial hair. In 1966 when I went to the Dominican Republic, also on active duty with the US Army, I grew a mustache along with many others. When we drove through Santo Domingo the civilians threw rocks at us... nothing personal: But... we were American soldiers and not at all popular with many of the locals.
 
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Dave L

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Your presumption and condemnation of others may result badly for you...

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Matt 7:1-3
You cannot find one miracle of the level performed by the apostles in Acts. These people are shysters that get rich selling false hopes to the biblically naive. The prayer of faith heals in spite of them, even if they disappear all together.
 

rockytopva

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A lack of faith, prayer, and fasting.... And none other reason...

And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. - Matthew 13:57-58

Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.- Matthew 17:19-21

....for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. - Romans 14:23
 

rockytopva

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If what any of these say is true, why doesn't God heal them? So they just die 120 years old, not needing glasses like Moses or Aaron?

I worked with a lady by the name of Nancy. Back in the 1990's her heart was only like 10% and they were expecting her to die. I myself had given up hope for her.

And then... Months later... Nancy is back! After she had been back many months I asked her what happened. She said that there on her death bed a prayer team assembled, held hands, and prayed a healing prayer over her in the name of Jesus. Though that has been decades ago she is still alive today. I asked her, Nancy, was the prayer team Pentecostal? She said, no, Baptist!
 
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Dave L

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I worked with a lady by the name of Nancy. Back in the 1990's her heart was only like 10% and they were expecting her to die. I myself had given up hope for her.

And then... Months later... Nancy is back! After she had been back many months I asked her what happened. She said that there on her death bed a prayer team assembled, held hands, and prayed a healing prayer over her in the name of Jesus. Though that has been decades ago she is still alive today. I asked her, Nancy, was the prayer team Pentecostal? She said, no, Baptist!
This is what I'm saying, the prayer of faith heals and these scoundrels manipulate people through it. God would probably heal more without them, given the false doctrines they add to it.
 

amadeus

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You cannot find one miracle of the level performed by the apostles in Acts. These people are shysters that get rich selling false hopes to the biblically naive. The prayer of faith heals in spite of them, even if they disappear all together.
Oh I can, but I won't describe one to you because you have already decided it is not possible, limiting God Himself as they did in the OT.

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

God gave us the authority to limit Him for a period of time according to what we believe and what we don't believe. Where is our faith? What is it we do have faith in... when we deny His ability to do it?
 
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Dave L

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Oh I can, but I won't describe one to you because you have already decided it is not possible, limiting God Himself as they did in the OT.

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

God gave us the authority to limit Him for a period of time according to what we believe and what we don't believe. Where is our faith? What is it we do have faith in... when we deny His ability to do it?
The prayer of faith heals. These who claim to have the gifts are false apostles and do nothing more than manipulate the biblically naive out of their money while taking credit for God's work. Not one of them is inline doctrinally with historic Christianity.
 

farouk

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The prayer of faith heals. These who claim to have the gifts are false apostles and do nothing more than manipulate the biblically naive out of their money while taking credit for God's work. Not one of them is inline doctrinally with historic Christianity.
The point is that the Scriptures are now complete, and the purpose of the sign gifts to reinforce doctrine before the completion of the Scriptures is no longer there.
 
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amadeus

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The prayer of faith heals. These who claim to have the gifts are false apostles and do nothing more than manipulate the biblically naive out of their money while taking credit for God's work. Not one of them is inline doctrinally with historic Christianity.
Did you not even read my post before responding?
 

amadeus

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The point is that the Scriptures are now complete, and the purpose of the sign gifts to reinforce doctrine before the completion of the Scriptures is no longer there.
The scriptures may be complete, but they are certainly not completely understood by all who read them. People sometimes need signs today even as people needed signs during the times when the scriptures are set.
 
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farouk

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The scriptures may be complete, but they are certainly not completely understood by all who read them. People sometimes need signs today even as people needed signs during the times when the scriptures are set.
Not how I would argue it, Sir...
 
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Dave L

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Did you not even read my post before responding?
What miracles today compare to the signs and wonders performed by the Apostles? Whom God used in the same capacity he used Moses, confirming their authority in writing the New Covenant by raising the dead, healing twisted limbs than never walked. The really huge discrepancy is the profits they make fleecing the naive out of their resources, which in itself is a sign of false apostleship.
 
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amadeus

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What miracles today compare to the signs and wonders performed by the Apostles? Whom God used in the same capacity he used Moses, confirming their authority in writing the New Covenant by raising the dead, healing twisted limbs than never walked. The really huge discrepancy is the profits they make fleecing the naive out of their resources, which in itself is a sign of false apostleship.
How about a man whose foot was crushed by machinery and whole mass had turn to gangrene for lack of care, but then with a prayer of faith a new foot grew to replace the dead one?

How about a sister praying silently alone at the back of the church because no one would sit near her as they were overwhelmed by the cancerous growth on her face... and then the growth fell from her leaving her face clean and with no offensive odor as she raised her hands and gave God the glory!

These happened in my lifetime and I was only born in 1943.

I know you won't believe because you weren't there and believing would interfere with your doctrines...

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29
 
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Dave L

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How about a man whose foot was crushed by machinery and whole mass had turn to gangrene for lack of care, but then with a prayer of faith a new foot grew to replace the dead one?

How about a sister praying silently alone at the back of the church because no one would sit near her as they were overwhelmed by the cancerous growth on her face... and then the growth fell from her leaving her face clean and with no offensive odor as she raised her hands and gave God the glory!

These happened in my lifetime and I was only born in 1943.

I know you won't believe because you weren't there and believing would interfere with your doctrines...

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29
The prayer of faith heals the sick. But the Charismatic "faith healers" turned it into a highly profitable business. Any believer can remove sickness by casting out demons or praying the prayer of faith. But to market it it and claim the signs and wonders of the Apostles is only making merchandise out of the biblically unlearned.