The necessity of the Trinity
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CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Is it? Go back and read Enochs thread on SDA beliefs re the trinity and get back to me. And so what if it is? My question is what right do you have to demand I accede to your opinions on a subject no-one knows diddly squat about ???? The nature of God??????
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
No, that is not what the Bible says. That's your own convoluted heretical theology. The doctrine of the Trinity (the triune Godhead) is a fundamental Bible doctrine.
Your father is not you, neither are you your father. But that is what you are trying to promote about God.
Before we continue onward in this discussion, can we solidify in agreement that-
- A person is not saved by passing a theology test.
- Neither is a person not saved by flunking a theology test.
- Salvation instead comes from accepting Jesus Christ, the Son of God, as your Savior and King. Even if a person doesn't correctly academically understand Him.
@SovereignGrace
Well this spouting out again of an ages old hypothesis called the trinity created out of ignorance, some performed in innocence, written down from their thoughts and even altering scripture down the centuries, does not make it the words of God and in accordance with his will.
I would really spend lots of time in prayer and in the Father’s written word before I keep having the urge to present this marquee of division within the body and outside the body of Christ.
If you can understand why you are saved by the will of God, you can surely know that the Trinity idea is not the will of God.
//
Scripture never speaks to a God the Son, ever. I wonder why?
Scripture always speaks of God as the Father only. I wonder why?
God you know is the Father of Jesus, his Son, and who always walks in the will of his Father and never himself. I wonder why?
Review some explicit scripture right for the word or expression of God our Father, and never the Son, that says the Father is not only older and wiser than his Son, he is the source of the Son’s existence (both implicitly and explicitly).
John 5:18, 6:27, 6:45-46, 8:41-42, 8:54, 10:36, John 13:3, 14:1 (implicit, although obvious who Jesus is speaking about), 17:1, 20:17
Acts 2:33
Romans 1:7, 15:6
1 Corinthians 1:3, 8:6, 1 Cor 15:24
2 Corinthians 1:2-3, 11:31
Galatians 1:1, 1:3-4, 4:6
Ephesians 1:2-3, 1:17, 4:6, 5:20, 6:23
Philippians 1:2, 2:11, 4:20
Colossians 1:2-3, 3:17
1 Thes 1:1, 1:3, 3:11, 3:13
2 Thes 1:1-2, 2:16
1 Timothy 1:2
2 Timothy 1:2
Titus 1:4
Philemon 1:3
James 1:2
1 Peter 1:2-3
2 Peter 1:17
1 John 3:1 (slightly implicit although obvious what is meant)
2 John 1:3
2 John 1:9
Jude 1:1
Rev 1:6
There is only conclusion, that God is the Father and the Father is the only God, and provides his own spirit to his Son and those that believe him by God’s will and not our own and not by our own works of belief.
I wonder why the Father is the only true God, and there is no other beside him?
Bless you,
APAK
Well this spouting out again of an ages old hypothesis called the trinity created out of ignorance, some performed in innocence, written down from their thoughts and even altering scripture down the centuries, does not make it the words of God and in accordance with his will.
I would really spend lots of time in prayer and in the Father’s written word before I keep having the urge to present this marquee of division within the body and outside the body of Christ.
If you can understand why you are saved by the will of God, you can surely know that the Trinity idea is not the will of God.
//
Scripture never speaks to a God the Son, ever. I wonder why?
Scripture always speaks of God as the Father only. I wonder why?
God you know is the Father of Jesus, his Son, and who always walks in the will of his Father and never himself. I wonder why?
Review some explicit scripture right for the word or expression of God our Father, and never the Son, that says the Father is not only older and wiser than his Son, he is the source of the Son’s existence (both implicitly and explicitly).
John 5:18, 6:27, 6:45-46, 8:41-42, 8:54, 10:36, John 13:3, 14:1 (implicit, although obvious who Jesus is speaking about), 17:1, 20:17
Acts 2:33
Romans 1:7, 15:6
1 Corinthians 1:3, 8:6, 1 Cor 15:24
2 Corinthians 1:2-3, 11:31
Galatians 1:1, 1:3-4, 4:6
Ephesians 1:2-3, 1:17, 4:6, 5:20, 6:23
Philippians 1:2, 2:11, 4:20
Colossians 1:2-3, 3:17
1 Thes 1:1, 1:3, 3:11, 3:13
2 Thes 1:1-2, 2:16
1 Timothy 1:2
2 Timothy 1:2
Titus 1:4
Philemon 1:3
James 1:2
1 Peter 1:2-3
2 Peter 1:17
1 John 3:1 (slightly implicit although obvious what is meant)
2 John 1:3
2 John 1:9
Jude 1:1
Rev 1:6
There is only conclusion, that God is the Father and the Father is the only God, and provides his own spirit to his Son and those that believe him by God’s will and not our own and not by our own works of belief.
I wonder why the Father is the only true God, and there is no other beside him?
Bless you,
APAK
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
@SovereignGrace ..
I thought I would give you more gems from the oddest place....really, the scriptures are true in the spirit of God, my Father.
Now I just spoke of the Father is the only God, and now here is some scripture (both explicit and implicit) that says the Father is greater (in age, and also in power and glory as the source of life) than the Son and never the Son is equal or greater than the Father:
In math relationship then,
Father = God; God = Father; God ≠ Son; Son ≠ God,
Father > Son; Son < Father; Son ≠ Father and Father ≠ Son
//
Now for that scripture that God (YHWH) is always greater than the Son:
Genesis 1:26
Deuteronomy 6:4
Hosea 11:1
Isaiah 42:8
Matthew 11:27; 27:46
John 1:1-3, 14, 18; 3:2, 16-17, 36; 5:19-20; 14:6, 10, 12, 26; 17:3
Heb 1:8
Col 1:15
Gal 3:20
1 John 2:1; 3:1; 4:7
And there is more from where I got this from………….
Bless you,
APAK
I thought I would give you more gems from the oddest place....really, the scriptures are true in the spirit of God, my Father.
Now I just spoke of the Father is the only God, and now here is some scripture (both explicit and implicit) that says the Father is greater (in age, and also in power and glory as the source of life) than the Son and never the Son is equal or greater than the Father:
In math relationship then,
Father = God; God = Father; God ≠ Son; Son ≠ God,
Father > Son; Son < Father; Son ≠ Father and Father ≠ Son
//
Now for that scripture that God (YHWH) is always greater than the Son:
Genesis 1:26
Deuteronomy 6:4
Hosea 11:1
Isaiah 42:8
Matthew 11:27; 27:46
John 1:1-3, 14, 18; 3:2, 16-17, 36; 5:19-20; 14:6, 10, 12, 26; 17:3
Heb 1:8
Col 1:15
Gal 3:20
1 John 2:1; 3:1; 4:7
And there is more from where I got this from………….
Bless you,
APAK
101G
Well-Known Member
Dear VJ, don't stress yourself over this, ok. Listen, all voices that come from heaven is not nesseary God voice. sometimes an angel can speak from heaven.
another example, when Hagar and her son was cast out from Abraham and his wife, Genesis 21:17 "And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is".
now, at the baptism of christ, the bible plainly warns, don't add or take away from the word of God. listen, Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased".
never assume nothing. the scriptures could have said, "the voice of the father from heaven". or "the voice of God from heaven". why are people assuming it's God almighty voice?. plainly the Father, the HOLY SPIRIT was in apperance as a dove.
diversity is all over the bible, only if one have their eyes of understanding open. here we have the Holy Spirit, the LORD ALMIGHTY, in apperance like a dove, and his diversified self in flesh in the water. that's it, that's all.
VJ, I'm a "diversified Oneness", not a oneness as the UPC and a few other are. no, I'm a "Diversified Oneness". just as the apostle Paul said, not all men have this Knowledge. the apostles knew this, the disciples in the church knew this, this is no NEW DOCTRINE. I didn't get this over night either. it took time in study with the HOLY SPIRIT... God almighty the LORD JESUS. for the Holy Ghost will teach us. but did not the bible say God himself will teach us? Psalms 32:8 "I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Psalms 32:9 "Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
yes, I learned in silence. and studied all the major doctrine on the market today, including the trinity, (which at that time I believed in), and all fell on their faces when it came to the TRUTH, the word of God.
don't get the Holy Ghost mixed up, as you said, The Holy Ghost (Spirit) shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee. see right there your doctrine of the trinity is exposed. for the Father, God is a "Spirit" (John 4:24a) let's see. Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".
now VJ if you're honest, which I believe you're, is not the conceiver of a child is the Father? yes, so who conceived the Child in Mary? that's right the Holy Ghost, read Matthew 1:20 again. the Father of that Child conceived in Mary is the "HOLY GHOST" who is the Father.
see how clear the bible is. just read it.
PICJAG.
If I am understanding you correctly, you are denying the Christ is God. Is that what you’re saying?
@SovereignGrace last one on this thought...
Now to complete the circle here is scripture that says the Holy spirit is the spirit of God (YHWH) himself, the Father of Jesus, and those that are disciples of Christ in this current state of the world. The Holy Spirit is not a new extra spirit roaming around the ether, separated from the Father. It is him in his true form and he is the Father of ALL spirits.
The Holy Spirit = the Spirit of God = Father’s composition = sum of all spirits of God or just plain = Spirit
The Holy Spirit is composed of a massive incalculable array of separate spirits of/from God for his purpose and plan. All these spirits are living and conscious, have specific attributes or qualities that can be unique or common to other spirits.
Jesus is one spirit of God and the most cherished of the Father. Jesu’s spirit most closely resembles the attributes of the Father; Jesus reflects his image. Jesus then has both unique only to him, and common attributes as most other spirits. Jesus has the attributes of truth, wisdom, understanding and love, reverence…etc.
Elijah is another spirit of God that has both types of attributes.
You are another spirit. I am another spirit. Your neighbor is another spirit. We all share ‘naturally’ common attributes (like a spirit to know God, pray, love etc.) until the Father desired to inject other attributes from other spirits into us, or create a completely new attribute, as a gift for some. As a believer we have Jesus’ attributes infused into us, into our natural spirit making us a completely new creature.
John the Baptism had Elijah’s spirit infused in him from birth.
The angels are another class of spirits that have common attributes to themselves. Some have unique attributes as the archangels.
The Father has his own unique spirits and attributes for creation, omnipotence, and all knowing.
BL: The Father is the source of all spirits.
All these spirits created with their unseen life, movements and migrations are all classified as the Holy Spirit in scripture for the most part or just plain, Spirit.
The Father can send different spirits to other spirits or beings.
For the scripture:
Genesis 1:1-2
Numbers 14:24
Job 33:4
Nehemiah 9:20
Psalms 104:30
Isaiah 11:2
Matthew 5:3
John 4:24; 6:63; 14:26; 16:13; 20:22
Romans 5:5; 7:22; 8:2, 9, 14, 16, 26-27
Act 1:8, 2:4, 17, 38
1 John 4:1, 13
Galatians 5:16, 22-23
Ephesians 3:16; 4:30
1 Corinth 2:10; 6:19; 12:13
2 Corinth 2:14
2 Tim 1:7
1 Peter 1:11; 4:14
And there is more…………..
Bless you,
APAK
Now to complete the circle here is scripture that says the Holy spirit is the spirit of God (YHWH) himself, the Father of Jesus, and those that are disciples of Christ in this current state of the world. The Holy Spirit is not a new extra spirit roaming around the ether, separated from the Father. It is him in his true form and he is the Father of ALL spirits.
The Holy Spirit = the Spirit of God = Father’s composition = sum of all spirits of God or just plain = Spirit
The Holy Spirit is composed of a massive incalculable array of separate spirits of/from God for his purpose and plan. All these spirits are living and conscious, have specific attributes or qualities that can be unique or common to other spirits.
Jesus is one spirit of God and the most cherished of the Father. Jesu’s spirit most closely resembles the attributes of the Father; Jesus reflects his image. Jesus then has both unique only to him, and common attributes as most other spirits. Jesus has the attributes of truth, wisdom, understanding and love, reverence…etc.
Elijah is another spirit of God that has both types of attributes.
You are another spirit. I am another spirit. Your neighbor is another spirit. We all share ‘naturally’ common attributes (like a spirit to know God, pray, love etc.) until the Father desired to inject other attributes from other spirits into us, or create a completely new attribute, as a gift for some. As a believer we have Jesus’ attributes infused into us, into our natural spirit making us a completely new creature.
John the Baptism had Elijah’s spirit infused in him from birth.
The angels are another class of spirits that have common attributes to themselves. Some have unique attributes as the archangels.
The Father has his own unique spirits and attributes for creation, omnipotence, and all knowing.
BL: The Father is the source of all spirits.
All these spirits created with their unseen life, movements and migrations are all classified as the Holy Spirit in scripture for the most part or just plain, Spirit.
The Father can send different spirits to other spirits or beings.
For the scripture:
Genesis 1:1-2
Numbers 14:24
Job 33:4
Nehemiah 9:20
Psalms 104:30
Isaiah 11:2
Matthew 5:3
John 4:24; 6:63; 14:26; 16:13; 20:22
Romans 5:5; 7:22; 8:2, 9, 14, 16, 26-27
Act 1:8, 2:4, 17, 38
1 John 4:1, 13
Galatians 5:16, 22-23
Ephesians 3:16; 4:30
1 Corinth 2:10; 6:19; 12:13
2 Corinth 2:14
2 Tim 1:7
1 Peter 1:11; 4:14
And there is more…………..
Bless you,
APAK
101G
Well-Known Member
Whenever there is a salutation that has the Father and Son mentioned as being two separate Persons, it is because they are. But they are one Being.
101G
Well-Known Member
You posted this...
“The Holy Spirit is composed of a massive incalculable array of separate spirits of/from God for his purpose and plan. All these spirits are living and conscious, have specific attributes or qualities that can be unique or common to other spirits.”
Uhhhhhhh....
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