MARK 6:3 DID JESUS HAVE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ?

Marymog · Jun 24, 2019

GodsGrace said:
There are truths in the bible that are not all accepted...does this make a person be lost?.

YES....If someone does not accept the TRUTH of Scripture....they are lost....They have rejected Jesus and God.

Jesus taught his Apostles the Truth. Jesus told the Apostles, "Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”

Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Bible Study Mary

Marymog · Jun 24, 2019

GodsGrace said:
BTW, None of the priests I know would agree (of the few I really know) with that apologist. The monk I go to for lessons probably would. He's very conservative. He's also very informed....there's also a new priest down in town that I like, but I can't get to his bible study.

Hi GG,

I am not sure what you mean by "that apologist". It does not matter what an apologist believes/teaches. It only matters what The Church teaches since it is, according to Scripture, a rock and the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Why can't you get into his bible study? Is he so popular that there is no room for more people?

Mary

Marymog · Jun 24, 2019

GodsGrace said:
So you really believe that if you don't accept all dogmas a person would be lost?

Yes, I believe if one rejects dogma (the Truth) they will be lost...... if not for some reason in the end saved by grace.

Mary

Marymog · Jun 24, 2019

GodsGrace said:
I find that my Catholic friends trust in the church a lot. Maybe more than in God.
They're all upset about the changes...they're worried about the synod in September. They're starting to understand what I've been telling them for years....trust God more and the church less.

Hi GG,

Why wouldn't they trust in The Church? Jesus described The Church as a "rock" and Scripture describes it as the pillar and foundation of truth. According to Scripture if we refuse to listen to it's teachings then it has the authority to have us treated as a heathen man and a publican.

You trust that God is telling YOU the Truth? Well, so did Luther and Calvin and Zwingili and hundreds of other men and look where that took Christianity. Soooo divided, splintered and fractured it his hardly recognizable anymore.

Mary

Marymog · Jun 24, 2019

GodsGrace said:
I'm not familiar with either church.
If a church accepts abortion, I don't think it's following Jesus' teachings.
His teachings MUST be followed.

This gets into what makes one a Christian.
Believe Jesus is God.
Believe in the resurrection.
Believe what Jesus taught those 3 years.
Be baptized, as He instructed.

What else?
I have to leave for a while so I'm forgetting stuff for sure.

Thank you GG.

Well, those churches that accept abortion believe that they are following the teachings of Scripture. Who has the authority to say they are wrong?

Every church believes they are practicing what Jesus taught those 3 years yet we all have different practices, doctrines, dogmas etc. sooooooo it's not as easy as you make it sound......(His teachings MUST be followed.) What teachings?

Respectfully, Mary

Marymog · Jun 24, 2019

GodsGrace said:
Mary's geneology had to go back to David.
Joseph was not Jesus' father.

Where in Scripture does it say that Mary's genealogy went back to David? I can't find it....

I'm not saying it didn't and believe it probably did. I just can't find Scripture to support it.

Mary

Nancy · Jun 24, 2019

Marymog said:
Where in Scripture does it say that Mary's genealogy went back to David? I can't find it....

I'm not saying it didn't and believe it probably did. I just can't find Scripture to support it.

Mary

Did you ever wonder why Jesus has two different genealogies?
Matthew 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38
Some say that the one in Luke is actually Mary's genealogy.
"Mary's descent from David comes through his son Nathan, not Solomon or one of David's other children (Luke 3:31)."
Why Does Jesus Have Two Different Genealogies (Matthew 1:1-16; Luke 3:23-38)?
Hmm, curious er and curious er it becomes! lol.

GodsGrace · Jun 24, 2019

Marymog said:
Hi GG,

I am not sure what you mean by "that apologist". It does not matter what an apologist believes/teaches. It only matters what The Church teaches since it is, according to Scripture, a rock and the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Why can't you get into his bible study? Is he so popular that there is no room for more people?

Mary

LOL
No!
In fact a few friends of mine go.
It's at 9 in the evening and I'm beginning to not like going out that late.
I'm tired and settled in. I went a couple of times and he didn't really teach anything I don't already know, but it was very nice and he does a good job, and answer questions well.

We had a monsignor here back in about 2006 to 2017...he and the young priest there used to come for lunch many times...I still see the young priest...the monsignor was transferred to another town (that's a story)...which was OK by me because a person would never get a straight answer from him. He'd do a bible study too.

I just think it's important for us to fellowship with believers.
Hebrews is right.

GodsGrace · Jun 24, 2019

Marymog said:
Hi GG,

Why wouldn't they trust in The Church? Jesus described The Church as a "rock" and Scripture describes it as the pillar and foundation of truth. According to Scripture if we refuse to listen to it's teachings then it has the authority to have us treated as a heathen man and a publican.

You trust that God is telling YOU the Truth? Well, so did Luther and Calvin and Zwingili and hundreds of other men and look where that took Christianity. Soooo divided, splintered and fractured it his hardly recognizable anymore.

Mary

I agree and would rather not reply to the first paragraph.
I do believe the CC is the original church and goes all the way back
to the Apostles.

Why they don't trust the church is not a topic for here.

GodsGrace · Jun 24, 2019

Marymog said:
Yes, I believe if one rejects dogma (the Truth) they will be lost...... if not for some reason in the end saved by grace.

Mary

So you believe doctrine saves.
If a person loves Jesus and is a disciple but believes in ...
let's say ...eternal security ... which we both know is not biblical...
You believe that person will be lost?

GodsGrace · Jun 24, 2019

Marymog said:
Thank you GG.

Well, those churches that accept abortion believe that they are following the teachings of Scripture. Who has the authority to say they are wrong?

Every church believes they are practicing what Jesus taught those 3 years yet we all have different practices, doctrines, dogmas etc. sooooooo it's not as easy as you make it sound......(His teachings MUST be followed.) What teachings?

Respectfully, Mary

Well, Respectfully Mary,,,,
Surprise, surprise...
I agree with you 100%
A truth cannot be OBJECTIVE
unless we all agree with it.

I've often said protestantism should have a Pope.
(or a magesterum).

It's a problem.
OTOH, I find it's a problem to when a church
received FURTHER revelation and doctrines grow as time goes by.
Confession, for instance. Very different today than at the beginning..
and went through a few changes.

I can understand when a person leaves Protestantism.
Too much bickering about something that is clear as day.

When someone does not want the truth,,,they find verses to suit their needs.
I WISH Jesus had been more clear. Maybe He was and His exact words were forgotten. Paul was speaking to Jews and Gentiles 2,000 years ago and we want to understand him in today's lingo.

It's a miracle our religion has held together all these years.
The gates of hell did not prevail.

Helen · Jun 24, 2019

Nancy said:
As far as Mary or Joseph's genealogy, I was only wondering about it because Joseph had no blood line with Jesus,

and @Marymog

I think you will find that Joseph had a clear bloodline back to King David via Solomon. x

GodsGrace · Jun 24, 2019

Marymog said:
Where in Scripture does it say that Mary's genealogy went back to David? I can't find it....

I'm not saying it didn't and believe it probably did. I just can't find Scripture to support it.

Mary

I had done a LITTLE study on this a few years ago and from memory, I remember that Mary is the relative of David...not Joseph.
I had learned that it wasn't important for Joseph to be the descendant of David, as it should have been, because Joseph was not the father of Jesus.

There's a lot on the net about this...but I'm not sure it's worth the while.
If you do proceed please let us know.

I remember that I used to teach (children) that Mathew brings Jesus to Abraham...and Luke brings Jesus all the way back to Adam because He is the Savior of all...not only the Jews. Luke was a gentile, after all.

Just quikley, I found this and it looks interesting.

Compare Two Genealogies of Jesus in Matthew and Luke

Nancy · Jun 24, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
and @Marymog

I think you will find that Joseph had a clear bloodline back to King David via Solomon. x

I've just discovered the 2 genealogies of Jesus in Matthew. And, once AGAIN!!!!! - more to meditate on here. " Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!" The Godfather movie, lol.
And, btw Helen, I am still not certain what "hell" really is yet...I have my ideas and am still not cemented.

Citing for the 2 Genealogies: Why Does Jesus Have Two Different Genealogies (Matthew 1:1-16; Luke 3:23-38)?

Helen · Jun 24, 2019

Nancy said:
I've just discovered the 2 genealogies of Jesus in Matthew. And, once AGAIN!!!!! - more to meditate on here. " Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!" The Godfather movie, lol.
And, btw Helen, I am still not certain what "hell" really is yet...I have my ideas and am still not cemented.
Citing for the 2 Genealogies: Why Does Jesus Have Two Different Genealogies (Matthew 1:1-16; Luke 3:23-38)?

Yes, one through Solomon and one through Nathan.
Joseph was his legal father...and important even thought not his natural father. God made sure both his mother and father went back to David. Hence Jesus was referred to as the son of David through both mother and 'father'.

A study on adoption is a good one. An adopted child ( sometimes they even adopted a grown son) it has much more weight than we think today.
After all, because of our adoption, believers will share the full inheritance of the Son. ... an adopted son, sometimes had greater prestige and privilege than the natural children. ...
At the death of the father, a favoured adopted son would sometimes inherit the father's title!! A good study and shows what God has done for us.

Just hold what you have not 'cemented' yet, lightly. That's always what I have done. Don't sweat it. Soon or later God will show it clearer.

Jane_Doe22 · Jun 24, 2019

Marymog said:
Thank you GG.

Well, those churches that accept abortion believe that they are following the teachings of Scripture. Who has the authority to say they are wrong?

Every church believes they are practicing what Jesus taught those 3 years yet we all have different practices, doctrines, dogmas etc. sooooooo it's not as easy as you make it sound......(His teachings MUST be followed.) What teachings?

Respectfully, Mary

Mary: agin you forget: non-Catholics* prize a relationship with God. Any earthly insutiutional body ranks much lower. Trying to persuade a Christian person to look away from God and instead solely to a man (even a man who's a servant of God) isn't going go over well.

*And many Catholics too, obviously.

Marymog · Jun 25, 2019

Nancy said:
Did you ever wonder why Jesus has two different genealogies?
Matthew 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38
Some say that the one in Luke is actually Mary's genealogy.
"Mary's descent from David comes through his son Nathan, not Solomon or one of David's other children (Luke 3:31)."
Why Does Jesus Have Two Different Genealogies (Matthew 1:1-16; Luke 3:23-38)?
Hmm, curious er and curious er it becomes! lol.

Hi Nancy,

I love bible and Christian history study. Luke makes it clear in vs 27 that Joseph is from the house of David. If he wanted us to know that Mary was from the House of David, he had his chance and he didn't take it. Luke states that Joseph was the son of Heli, not that Mary was the daughter of Heli. At no point, zero, none, zilch nadda in Scripture is Mary associated to the House of David via a bloodline.

Jewish genealogies follow the male line. Joseph was the legal father of Jesus. The legal father is on par with the real father. Since it was quite usual for people to marry within their clan it can be concluded that Mary belonged to the house of David via marriage to Joseph.

Since Matthew 1:16 CLEARLY says Jacob was Josephs father and you seem to be curious as to how Heli could be his father according to Luke's account the question is: Why is Joseph said to have two fathers?

1. The theory that Luke's' genealogy is through Mary's bloodline is not supported by Scripture. Luke CLEARLY states that Joseph was the son of Heli, not that Mary was the daughter of Heli.

2. The 2nd century historian Julius Africanus, a native of Israel, records information given by Christ’s remaining family in his day. According to their family genealogy, Joseph’s grandfather Matthan (mentioned in Matthew) married a woman named Estha, who bore him a son named Jacob. After Matthan died, Estha married his relative Melchi (mentioned in Luke) and bore him a son named Heli (marrying relatives was common among Jews at this time). Jacob and Heli were thus half-brothers. Heli died childless, so Jacob married his widow and fathered Joseph, who was biologically the son of Jacob but legally the son of Heli.

3. The earliest historical record from the 2nd century Christianity document Protoevangelium of James has the parents of Mary as Joachim and Anne.

Mary

Marymog · Jun 25, 2019

GodsGrace said:
Well, Respectfully Mary,,,,
Surprise, surprise...
I agree with you 100%
A truth cannot be OBJECTIVE
unless we all agree with it.

I've often said protestantism should have a Pope.
(or a magesterum).

It's a problem.
OTOH, I find it's a problem to when a church
received FURTHER revelation and doctrines grow as time goes by.
Confession, for instance. Very different today than at the beginning..
and went through a few changes.

I can understand when a person leaves Protestantism.
Too much bickering about something that is clear as day.

When someone does not want the truth,,,they find verses to suit their needs.
I WISH Jesus had been more clear. Maybe He was and His exact words were forgotten. Paul was speaking to Jews and Gentiles 2,000 years ago and we want to understand him in today's lingo.

It's a miracle our religion has held together all these years.
The gates of hell did not prevail.

Hi GG,

I agree, it is a miracle that our religion has held together all these years.

You are right. Confession has changed thru the years. Christians used to publically pronounce their sins IN Church. The Church decided to make it more private hence confessionals. Would you rather go back to public confessions? I would be scared to death if The Church went back to that....

Curious Mary

GodsGrace · Jun 25, 2019

Marymog said:
Hi GG,

I agree, it is a miracle that our religion has held together all these years.

You are right. Confession has changed thru the years. Christians used to publically pronounce their sins IN Church. The Church decided to make it more private hence confessionals. Would you rather go back to public confessions? I would be scared to death if The Church went back to that....

Curious Mary

Mary,
I know of a Baptist denomination down in Florence that DOES confess in public in the church! No need to be a fly on the wall ! A friend of mine attends that church and loves it.

Agreed. I don't think Jesus meant that. I'm worried we don't really know what He meant...Did He mean confess our sins one to the other? Like when we do harm to a person?

Did He mean to give this authority to the APOSTLES, John 20...but not go beyond them?

Every priest I know believes confession is necessary.
They say God forgives and they just "proclaim" the forgiveness at absolution.
And yet, they all agree with it,,,even Pope Francis (for now).

Even for venial sins it's recommended (strongly) that at least once a year a person should go to confession...pref at Easter time.

The Orthodox only confess if they WANT TO.

This baffles me, TTYTT. The whole thing, I mean.

Marymog · Jun 25, 2019

GodsGrace said:
I had done a LITTLE study on this a few years ago and from memory, I remember that Mary is the relative of David...not Joseph.
I had learned that it wasn't important for Joseph to be the descendant of David, as it should have been, because Joseph was not the father of Jesus.

There's a lot on the net about this...but I'm not sure it's worth the while.
If you do proceed please let us know.

I remember that I used to teach (children) that Mathew brings Jesus to Abraham...and Luke brings Jesus all the way back to Adam because He is the Savior of all...not only the Jews. Luke was a gentile, after all.

Just quikley, I found this and it looks interesting.

Compare Two Genealogies of Jesus in Matthew and Luke

Thank you GG.

Scripture flat out says that Joseph was of the bloodline of David. It never says that Mary was.

The closest a person can come to suggesting that Mary is from David's bloodline is by using Luke's genealogy and scholars disagree on even that. Luke 1 CLEARLY states that Joseph is from David's line and that Joseph was the son of Heli in Luke 3.

Christian historical records have Joachim and Anna as Mary's parents. Putting Scripture and historical records together point strongly toward both Matthew and Luke's account as being Josephs bloodline; not Mary's.

Mary

MARK 6:3 DID JESUS HAVE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ?

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