I forgot about Zechariah and Jushua the High Priest, thanks.
What about David? I'm presuming you mean King David? Where is the reference to satan in the books that are written about King David?
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I forgot about Zechariah and Jushua the High Priest, thanks.
What about David? I'm presuming you mean King David? Where is the reference to satan in the books that are written about King David?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
So, Satan was NOT lying when he said to Eve that God surely did not say...? All you need is a very small lie thrown into a ton of Truth and it is still a lie, no matter which way you look at it, yes?
bbyrd009
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oh definitely, but note how satan manages to ape naive dialectic, in making the statement into a question, "Surely..."
def the father of lies, yes. now, catch him telling a lie, if you can. Quote me a single one lol
bbyrd009
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bbyrd009
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if you arent hearing the words "confession" @where you are at, whatever you call it
its never too late ok.
you can walk out that door whenever you want
empty your pockets first, and leave "town"
its never too late ok.
you can walk out that door whenever you want
empty your pockets first, and leave "town"
bbyrd009
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Nancy
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"The Bible also says that Lucifer convinced angels to wage war against Almighty God! (Revelation 12:7-9) It would take a very convincing liar to persuade intelligent angels to rebel against Almighty God! If you think this was an amazing accomplishment, the Bible indicates the devil will again convince created beings – mere mortals this time – to wage war against Jesus at the Second Coming. (Revelation 17:14) So, do not be fooled. The devil’s lies can be so subtle that they are almost impossible to detect."
The Devil’s Lies | Lucifer Is a Very Convincing Liar
Subtlety is his genius. There are many ways to lie. Just the fact that scripture calls him the father of all lies is more than enough for me. Not to mention how he gets into our minds and tells us we are not good enough, we are fighting a spiritual war...do you think Satan is not a liar just because he is cunning enough to deceive as he does?
bbyrd009
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ha well no, not specifically, however to me anyway father of lies lends a different connotation?
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Prayer Warrior
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Where the name Lucifer is used, you think the translators got it wrong?
Is. 14:12 (KJV)--How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
So, you think the name you like for Lucifer (morning star) is a parallel for Jesus? I just spent some time quoting from Freemasons. This sounds like something they would say. Are you a Freemason? Or have you spent time reading their writings?
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Philip James
Well-Known Member
Hello 4Jesus,
And can the daily sacrifice he puts an end to be any other than this:
Mal 1:11
For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.
Peace be with you!
Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
Here it is.
1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
Then to complicate matters, we have this too:
2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
This thread is not about me. I find the topic of "me" boring. No, I am not a Freemason and I've read very little of their writings -- one tiny book, that's all.
Have you checked out the various translations and also what the words mean in the original Hebrew?
Various translations: Isaiah 14:12 - Bible Gateway
Commentary on "heylel"; Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Are you astonished that both Satan and Jesus could be called "morning star"? Why? Is it not clear Jesus came to replace something that had fallen?
We also see there is a "god of this world" who likes darkness and men to be blind. He has been, is being, and will be replaced.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
I believe there was some Freemason who wrote something about Lucifer, and there are occultists of various stripes that use the word like Alice Bailey -- and their motive seems to be to shock Christians. They use it to mean "light bearer" -- not a fallen angel. I wish they too wouldn't have used such a controversial word. It muddies things with pointless controversy. I tend to avoid that kind of writing since I see it as somewhat pathetic to be controversial just to get attention. If they had something valuable to say, say it without pointless controversy. That by the way is the reason Alice Bailey never appealed to me. I understand how she used the word; but there wasn't a need for it. It seemed to me she valued publicity over clarity.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Oh? I find you fascinating!
I haven't checked these out, but I will.
I guess I object to this characterization because it seems you're saying that Jesus and Satan are on the same level as far as power and authority go. Like it's an even trade, so to speak.
The Freemasons had a lot to say about Lucifer and about your friend, the serpent.
"The Serpent is universally esteemed a legitimate symbol of Freemasonry."
[George Oliver, Signs and Symbols , New York, 1906]
"The serpent is the symbol and prototype of the Universal Savior, who redeems the worlds by giving creation the knowledge of itself and the realization of good and evil."
[Manly P. Hall, 33 Degree Mason, The Secret Teachings of All Ages , the Philosophical Research Society Press, p. lxxxviii.]
"It is the body of the Holy Spirit, the Universal Agent, the Serpent devouring its own tail."
[Morals and Dogma, teachings of the 28th Degree, Knight of the Sun, or Prince Adept]
"The serpent entwined around the egg, was a symbol common to the Indians, the Egyptians, and the Druids. It referred to the creation of the Universe."
[p. 496; teaching of the 25 Degree, Knight of the Brazen Serpent ]
"... Satan is not a black god, but negation of God ... this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may represent evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force ... under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer ..."
[Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 102]
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[George Oliver, Signs and Symbols , New York, 1906]
"The serpent is the symbol and prototype of the Universal Savior, who redeems the worlds by giving creation the knowledge of itself and the realization of good and evil."
[Manly P. Hall, 33 Degree Mason, The Secret Teachings of All Ages , the Philosophical Research Society Press, p. lxxxviii.]
"It is the body of the Holy Spirit, the Universal Agent, the Serpent devouring its own tail."
[Morals and Dogma, teachings of the 28th Degree, Knight of the Sun, or Prince Adept]
"The serpent entwined around the egg, was a symbol common to the Indians, the Egyptians, and the Druids. It referred to the creation of the Universe."
[p. 496; teaching of the 25 Degree, Knight of the Brazen Serpent ]
"... Satan is not a black god, but negation of God ... this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may represent evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force ... under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer ..."
[Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 102]
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The serpent was indeed cunning. He could get his idea across without actually telling a lie himself. Say something true and let Eve's mind go wild and come up with something on its own.
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
KJ21
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, who didst weaken the nations!
ASV
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!
AMP
“How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning [light-bringer], son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the ground, You who have weakened the nations [king of Babylon]!
AMPC
How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!]
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, who didst weaken the nations!
ASV
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!
AMP
“How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning [light-bringer], son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the ground, You who have weakened the nations [king of Babylon]!
AMPC
How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!]
Oh, my, DayStar Television!
I'm sure that these names applied to Satan before he rebelled against God and was cast down to earth. What do you think about it?
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Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Never mind the "seems" -- just the facts, ma'am. Do you or do you not agree that Jesus came to remove control of this world from Satan the leader?
If black magicians like Jannes and Jambres want to think their serpents are that powerful, let them. They can find out that Moses' serpent was more powerful.
Makes some sense to me since Jesus compared himself to the serpent on the pole.
I don't know about the first two parts; but the serpent devouring its own tail is right. You can see that as a sign in the sky where "Draconis" is a constellation that circles the North Star. It is a serpent with its tail in its mouth. See? The serpent is supposed to be "up" not "down." In a person, the serpent is supposed to be raised and circle the head -- the crown of life. The resurrection depends on this defeat of the wrong type of serpent and restoring the proper serpent nature.
At the south pole, you find another sacred symbol in the constellation of the Southern Cross. That is a symbol of the Cross, of course.
Then around the equator, we find the four fixed signs -- also symbols of the holy. We find the four cherubim depicted.
I don't understand all the references he made, and I wouldn't have put it like that, but I think I see where he's coming from. If we err, Satan's job was supposed to be there to jab at us to let us know we're off track by "goading" us. The demonic person known as Satan took his job too seriously, not recognizing that Mercy is there for those who sin. Many times Satan is correct when he accuses people -- that is his idea of justice. It is a form of justice, to be sure. The demonic or Satanic form of justice is defective however since it fails to take Mercy into account. The demonic justice demands death for sin, failing to see the Wisdom of God for having Mercy. Justice without mercy is not God's Justice; and mercy or lovingkindness without justice is not God's Love. Mercy and Justice must be balanced and taken together.
It's interesting to me how long Paul resisted the "jabs" or "goads" which should have told him he was off course. Jesus had to take drastic action.
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Pricks are the goads used to nudge animals with to get them back on the right path. Thorns were often used, of course. Those thorns and thistles do serve a purpose -- telling us something is wrong. If we have the right attitude, we can find God manifesting in the "cursed" thorns.
I repeat Jesus took the thorns given to him and made a crown of life out of them. We also see the LORD manifesting to Moses in the lowly thornbush.
It means shining one or morning star, or bright star. Since Venus was called a star and it's the brightest one, it refers to Venus. I hadn't reread the passage. I see the association with the demonic Satan is not in that passage. Again we have a man exalting himself as if he was the "morning star."
It's a parallel, I think, with "the man" in Revelation who's called "the beast."
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Ma'am? LOL.
Satan is the god of this world; however, God has always remained sovereign over all of His creation. The devil's power doesn't originate from himself, but is "loaned" from God. And he can only act as God allows him....
God has delivered believers from the devil's domain and transferred us to the kingdom of Jesus Christ, who now rules over us.
So, while the death and resurrection of Jesus has removed Satan's power over the believer (unless we give him a foothold through sin), Satan is still god of this world until he is bound at which time Jesus will become the "political" king of the world--the reigning Messiah.
Does this answer your question?
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