The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

BreadOfLife said:

In other words - you can't refute the linguistic facts I presented that DESTROY your position.

That's what I thought . . .

Click to expand...

Joseph Smith etc. also destroyed the Bible with commentary.

You are not unique.

Truther said:

Jesus said that here?....
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Stop pulling my leg, Catholic.

Click to expand...

Sooooo, you're saying that Jesus doesn't have a spirit??
That He's just a meat-puppet??

And YOU have kids??

Truther said:

Joseph Smith etc. also destroyed the Bible with commentary.
You are not unique.

Click to expand...

So did Martin Luther when he ejected 7 Books from the Old Testament and tried to insert "alone" in Rom. 3:28.
And that's whose canon YOU adhere to.

Good job, Einstein . . .

BreadOfLife said:

And I already obliterated this moronic position back in post #2236.
Here it is again - in case you missed it . . .

Time for another linguistics lesson . . .

From Macmillan Dictionary:

1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - They said they came “in the name of peace.”

From Cambridge Dictionary:
1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - "Open up in the name of the law" before they broke the door down.

From Thesaurus.com:
“In the name of” synonyms
1. THROUGH
2. THROUGH the agency of
3. Under the AUTHORITY of

From english.stackesxhange.com:
What does “in the name of…” actually mean?
Putting all religious contentions aside for the sake of our language, the etymology of name offers a good place to start understanding:

Old English nama, noma "name, reputation,"
from Proto-Germanic *namon

(cognates: Old Saxon namo, Old Frisian nama, Old High German namo, German Name, Middle Dutch name, Dutch naam, Old Norse nafn, Gothic namo "name"),

from PIE *nomn- (cognates: Sanskrit nama; Avestan nama; Greek onoma, onyma; Latin nomen; Old Church Slavonic ime, genitive imene; Russian imya; Old Irish ainm; Old Welsh anu "name").
IN ALL CULTURES, people of authority have always lent their reputation and their authority to their delegates. The founders and leaders of religious movements use the same delegation strategies as the founders and leaders of nations.
The English phrase in the name of simply asserts the reputation and authority of another person.

Here us an example from classic literature:
Victor Hugo's “Dramas” 1519, page 364:
“Richard Varney, in the name of God and Saint George we dub thee knight!”

This doesn’t state God’s “Singular name” as YOU keep insisting it must.

Click to expand...

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

BOL claims -- "and thou shalt call his name SON."


Before the Son of God was born, an angel gave Joseph the name by which He was to be called - Jesus. God chose this name to reveal Himself in flesh as Savior, for the name Jesus literally means "Jehovah-Savior," "Jehovah our Savior," or "Jehovah is Salvation."

The conversion of Saul of Tarsus (later the apostle Paul) provides a good example. When Saul came to Ananias as the Lord had directed him, Ananias instructed him, "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord". Saul knew exactly what the Lord’s name was, for he had recently asked, "Who art thou, Lord?" and the Lord had replied, "I am Jesus". The command of Ananias shows that the name of Jesus is to be called at water baptism. The Greek verb translated "calling" here literally means “invoking.”

Baptism is part of our spiritual circumcision, or initiation into the new covenant (Colossians 2:11-13). Under the old covenant a male child officially received his name at his physical circumcision. Water baptism is the time when our new family name is invoked upon us at our spiritual circumcision.


The Exercise of Power and Authority

God’s name represents His power and authority, this explains the significance and importance of using Jesus' name in baptism. Baptism is part of salvation, it is for remission of sins. Jesus is the only saving name and the name in which sins are forgiven and remitted. To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize with His power and authority. But this does not imply that the name of Jesus should not be used. To the contrary, the proper way to act with God’s authority and exercise His power is to invoke His name. This is analogous to legal transactions then and now. A person has the power and authority to direct his bank to pay money from his account to whomever he designates. Yet the bank requires his signed name before it will honor his instruction. For someone to exercise the power of attorney for another, he must first present an appropriate document signed by the person he represents.

user said:

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).
BOL claims -- "and thou shalt call his name SON."

Before the Son of God was born, an angel gave Joseph the name by which He was to be called - Jesus. God chose this name to reveal Himself in flesh as Savior, for the name Jesus literally means "Jehovah-Savior," "Jehovah our Savior," or "Jehovah is Salvation."

The conversion of Saul of Tarsus (later the apostle Paul) provides a good example. When Saul came to Ananias as the Lord had directed him, Ananias instructed him, "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord". Saul knew exactly what the Lord’s name was, for he had recently asked, "Who art thou, Lord?" and the Lord had replied, "I am Jesus". The command of Ananias shows that the name of Jesus is to be called at water baptism. The Greek verb translated "calling" here literally means “invoking.”

Baptism is part of our spiritual circumcision, or initiation into the new covenant (Colossians 2:11-13). Under the old covenant a male child officially received his name at his physical circumcision. Water baptism is the time when our new family name is invoked upon us at our spiritual circumcision.

The Exercise of Power and Authority

God’s name represents His power and authority, this explains the significance and importance of using Jesus' name in baptism. Baptism is part of salvation, it is for remission of sins. Jesus is the only saving name and the name in which sins are forgiven and remitted. To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize with His power and authority. But this does not imply that the name of Jesus should not be used. To the contrary, the proper way to act with God’s authority and exercise His power is to invoke His name. This is analogous to legal transactions then and now. A person has the power and authority to direct his bank to pay money from his account to whomever he designates. Yet the bank requires his signed name before it will honor his instruction. For someone to exercise the power of attorney for another, he must first present an appropriate document signed by the person he represents.

Click to expand...

Tell me - what was the Son's name before He was incarnated on earth?

user said:

Before the Son of God was born, an angel gave Joseph the name by which He was to be called - Jesus. God chose this name to reveal Himself in flesh as Savior, for the name Jesus literally means "Jehovah-Savior," "Jehovah our Savior," or "Jehovah is Salvation."

Click to expand...

This is complete linguistic nonsense.

God's name is NOT "Jehovah" - there is NO such name as "Jehovah".
This is a perversion of the Hebrew "YHVH". This is where they get the pronunciation of "Yaweh".

BreadOfLife said:

Tell me - what was the Son's name before He was incarnated on earth?

Click to expand...

is the name of your son - SON

BreadOfLife said:

This is complete linguistic nonsense.

God's name is NOT "Jehovah" - there is NO such name as "Jehovah".
This is a perversion of the Hebrew "YHVH". This is where they get the pronunciation of "Yaweh".

Click to expand...

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Psalms 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Isaiah 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

user said:

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Psalms 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Isaiah 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

Click to expand...

You are posting ENGLICH TRANSLATIONS.
The word "Jehovah" was actually invented by a 13th century Spanish monk named, Raymundo Martini - more out of convenience than anything else.
The Lord's name is NOT "Jehovah".

The Hebrew has no vowels, so His name "YHVH" is almost unpronounceable in English.

user said:

is the name of your son - SON

Click to expand...

You didn't answer the question.

Here it is AGAIN:
What was the Son's name before He was incarnated on earth?

BreadOfLife said:

You didn't answer the question.

Here it is AGAIN:
What was the Son's name before He was incarnated on earth?

Click to expand...

You didn't answer the question.

Here it is AGAIN:
Is the NAME of your son - SON?

user said:

You didn't answer the question.

Here it is AGAIN:
Is the NAME of your son - SON?

Click to expand...

I don't have a son.

Now - are you going to answer the question or not?
What was the Son's name before He was incarnated on earth?

BreadOfLife said:

You didn't answer the question.

Here it is AGAIN:
What was the Son's name before He was incarnated on earth?

Click to expand...

I see you completely evaded the following (from post #2284)...

The Exercise of Power and Authority

God’s name represents His power and authority, this explains the significance and importance of using Jesus' name in baptism. Baptism is part of salvation, it is for remission of sins. Jesus is the only saving name and the name in which sins are forgiven and remitted. To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize with His power and authority. But this does not imply that the name of Jesus should not be used. To the contrary, the proper way to act with God’s authority and exercise His power is to invoke His name. This is analogous to legal transactions then and now. A person has the power and authority to direct his bank to pay money from his account to whomever he designates. Yet the bank requires his signed name before it will honor his instruction. For someone to exercise the power of attorney for another, he must first present an appropriate document signed by the person he represents.

user said:

I see you completely evaded the following (from post #2284)...

The Exercise of Power and Authority
God’s name represents His power and authority, this explains the significance and importance of using Jesus' name in baptism. Baptism is part of salvation, it is for remission of sins. Jesus is the only saving name and the name in which sins are forgiven and remitted. To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize with His power and authority. But this does not imply that the name of Jesus should not be used. To the contrary, the proper way to act with God’s authority and exercise His power is to invoke His name. This is analogous to legal transactions then and now. A person has the power and authority to direct his bank to pay money from his account to whomever he designates. Yet the bank requires his signed name before it will honor his instruction. For someone to exercise the power of attorney for another, he must first present an appropriate document signed by the person he represents.

Click to expand...

Sooooo, are you saying that you CAN'T answer the question??
Is that it??

Time for a Bible lesson . . .

The Father calls the Son “Son”:

Matthew 3:17
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved SON, in whom I am well-pleased."

Matthew 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, "This is My beloved SON, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!"

Mark 1:11
and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved SON, in You I am well-pleased."


The Father sent the SON:
1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and SENT HIS SON to be the propitiation for our sins.


Remember what the angel said to Mary:
Luke 1:31
"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and YOU SHALL NAME HIM JESUS.

His name on earth became Jesus. His name was NOT Jesus in Heaven.

Finally - I already destroyed your arguments about "in the name of" Jesus Christ and proved that this simply means by HIS AUTHORITY.
Here is it again for your review . . .

From Macmillan Dictionary:

1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - They said they came “in the name of peace.”

From Cambridge Dictionary:
1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - "Open up in the name of the law" before they broke the door down.

From Thesaurus.com:
“In the name of” synonyms
1. THROUGH
2. THROUGH the agency of
3. Under the AUTHORITY of

From english.stackesxhange.com:
What does “in the name of…” actually mean?
Putting all religious contentions aside for the sake of our language, the etymology of name offers a good place to start understanding:

Old English nama, noma "name, reputation,"
from Proto-Germanic *namon

(cognates: Old Saxon namo, Old Frisian nama, Old High German namo, German Name, Middle Dutch name, Dutch naam, Old Norse nafn, Gothic namo "name"),

from PIE *nomn- (cognates: Sanskrit nama; Avestan nama; Greek onoma, onyma; Latin nomen; Old Church Slavonic ime, genitive imene; Russian imya; Old Irish ainm; Old Welsh anu "name").
IN ALL CULTURES, people of authority have always lent their reputation and their authority to their delegates. The founders and leaders of religious movements use the same delegation strategies as the founders and leaders of nations.
The English phrase in the name of simply asserts the reputation and authority of another person.

Here us an example from classic literature:
Victor Hugo's “Dramas” 1519, page 364:
“Richard Varney, in the name of God and Saint George we dub thee knight!”

This doesn’t state God’s “Singular name” as YOU keep insisting it must.

BreadOfLife said:

Sooooo, are you saying that you CAN'T answer the question??
Is that it??

Time for a Bible lesson . . .

The Father calls the Son “Son”:

Matthew 3:17
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved SON, in whom I am well-pleased."

Matthew 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, "This is My beloved SON, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!"

Mark 1:11
and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved SON, in You I am well-pleased."


The Father sent the SON:
1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and SENT HIS SON to be the propitiation for our sins.


Remember what the angel said to Mary:
Luke 1:31
"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and YOU SHALL NAME HIM JESUS.

His name on earth became Jesus. His name was NOT Jesus in Heaven.

Finally - I already destroyed your arguments about "in the name of" Jesus Christ and proved that this simply means by HIS AUTHORITY.
Here is it again for your review . . .

From Macmillan Dictionary:

1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - They said they came “in the name of peace.”

From Cambridge Dictionary:
1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - "Open up in the name of the law" before they broke the door down.

From Thesaurus.com:
“In the name of” synonyms
1. THROUGH
2. THROUGH the agency of
3. Under the AUTHORITY of

From english.stackesxhange.com:
What does “in the name of…” actually mean?
Putting all religious contentions aside for the sake of our language, the etymology of name offers a good place to start understanding:

Old English nama, noma "name, reputation,"
from Proto-Germanic *namon

(cognates: Old Saxon namo, Old Frisian nama, Old High German namo, German Name, Middle Dutch name, Dutch naam, Old Norse nafn, Gothic namo "name"),

from PIE *nomn- (cognates: Sanskrit nama; Avestan nama; Greek onoma, onyma; Latin nomen; Old Church Slavonic ime, genitive imene; Russian imya; Old Irish ainm; Old Welsh anu "name").
IN ALL CULTURES, people of authority have always lent their reputation and their authority to their delegates. The founders and leaders of religious movements use the same delegation strategies as the founders and leaders of nations.
The English phrase in the name of simply asserts the reputation and authority of another person.

Here us an example from classic literature:
Victor Hugo's “Dramas” 1519, page 364:
“Richard Varney, in the name of God and Saint George we dub thee knight!”

This doesn’t state God’s “Singular name” as YOU keep insisting it must.

Click to expand...

If you had to sign a bank document, to which of the choices would you sign...


A. x Father__
B. x Son____
C. x Husband


According to your claims, all would be accepted.

BTW, is the name of your wife - WIFE?

BreadOfLife said:

So did Martin Luther when he ejected 7 Books from the Old Testament and tried to insert "alone" in Rom. 3:28.
And that's whose canon YOU adhere to.

Good job, Einstein . . .

Click to expand...

Martin Luther was trying to convert Catholics to Sola Scriptura....inadvertently.

You should take notes from him.

BreadOfLife said:

Sooooo, you're saying that Jesus doesn't have a spirit??
That He's just a meat-puppet??

And YOU have kids??

Click to expand...

Jesus was made a quickening human spirit(1 Cor 15) and is fully indwelled of all his Father's Spirit, bodily(Col 2:9).

This phenomenon causes Jesus to be God by default.

This also causes Jesus to be the express image of his invisible God.

user said:

If you had to sign a bank document, to which of the choices would you sign...

A. x Father__
B. x Son____
C. x Husband

According to your claims, all would be accepted.

BTW, is the name of your wife - WIFE?

Click to expand...

This isn't about bank documents.
This is about the ROLES of the Triune Godhead.

I have already proven to you from linguistic scholarship that "in the name of" simply means "by the authority of".
You LOSE because you refuse to do your homework and instead choose to use silly arguments like "bank documents" . . .

Truther said:

Jesus was made a quickening human spirit(1 Cor 15) and is fully indwelled of all his Father's Spirit, bodily(Col 2:9).
This phenomenon causes Jesus to be God by default.
This also causes Jesus to be the express image of his invisible God.

Click to expand...

Jesus is GOD and was ALWAYS God (John 1:1).

He didn't "become" God at some later point.

BreadOfLife said:

This isn't about bank documents.
This is about the ROLES of the Triune Godhead.

I have already proven to you from linguistic scholarship that "in the name of" simply means "by the authority of".
You LOSE because you refuse to do your homework and instead choose to use silly arguments like "bank documents" . . .

Click to expand...

My apologies for assuming you were able to keep up. Clearly you were not.

Here it is again, read slowly...

The Exercise of Power and Authority

God’s name represents His power and authority, this explains the significance and importance of using Jesus' name in baptism. Baptism is part of salvation, it is for remission of sins. Jesus is the only saving name and the name in which sins are forgiven and remitted. To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize with His power and authority. But this does not imply that the name of Jesus should not be used. To the contrary, the proper way to act with God’s authority and exercise His power is to invoke His name. This is analogous to legal transactions then and now. A person has the power and authority to direct his bank to pay money from his account to whomever he designates. Yet the bank requires his signed name before it will honor his instruction. For someone to exercise the power of attorney for another, he must first present an appropriate document signed by the person he represents.