those that came out of the great tribulation when were they saved??

farouk said:

@Waiting on him I would see it in John 16 as being the tribulation principle that is always there; remembering also that the Lord has overcome the world.

Whereas the wording in Matthew 24 seems to relate to a unique, future event, v. 21: " For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

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Matthew 24:14 KJV
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Colossians 1:23 KJV
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
This has already taken place. I believe to teach any differently, is to insight fear.

Waiting on him said:

Matthew 24:14 KJV
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Colossians 1:23 KJV
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
This has already taken place. I believe to teach any differently, is to insight fear.

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@Waiting on him I would look at it from the angle that we do not have to expect to go through the great tribulation as the church (as opposed to going through the tribulation principle, while the Lord is with us); I would see it as a burden to impose on ppl who must supposedly expect the great tribulation before the Lord returns for His church, as opposed to returning to earth in power and glory.

(I guess one would call them dispensational distinctives.)

farouk said:

@Waiting on him I would look at it from the angle that we do not have to expect to go through the great tribulation as the church (as opposed to going through the tribulation principle, while the Lord is with us); I would see it as a burden to impose on ppl who must supposedly expect the great tribulation before the Lord returns for His church, as opposed to returning to earth in power and glory.

(I guess one would call them dispensational distinctives.)

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I agree, I’ve endured much tribulation, that’s all to be expected of this age even the nonbelievers endure tribulation, though they seem to be unaware.

farouk said:

@Waiting on him I would look at it from the angle that we do not have to expect to go through the great tribulation as the church (as opposed to going through the tribulation principle, while the Lord is with us); I would see it as a burden to impose on ppl who must supposedly expect the great tribulation before the Lord returns for His church, as opposed to returning to earth in power and glory.

(I guess one would call them dispensational distinctives.)

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Maybe you’ll be willing to share some scripture where Jesus returns for His Church?
You say He is with us, yet returns for us. Does this mean He leaves us and then returns?

Waiting on him said:

Maybe you’ll be willing to share some scripture where Jesus returns for His Church?

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@Waiting on him The usual ones include: John 14.3; 1 Thess. 4.16-17; 1 Corinthians 11.26...

farouk said:

@Waiting on him The usual ones include: John 14.3; 1 Thess. 4.16-17; 1 Corinthians 11.26...

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I’m not necessarily looking for a bodily return.

JohnDB said:

Megas is the Early Latin word used in conjunction with "great tribulation"... Could that truly mean "long"?

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YES, -- unless the duration has already been identified, and in that case it can only mean SCALE:


... well, I guess it's "SCALE", and not duration!
Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo said:

YES, -- unless the duration has already been identified, and in that case it can only mean SCALE:

Rev. 13:5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months​

... well, I guess it's "SCALE", and not duration!
Bobby Jo

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Correct this would be the duration of the witness of John and Jesus.

Dave M said:

In the book of revelation I see it says no one on earth repents, it says this several times.

Yet I here many preachers claiming that during the tribulation many people turned to Christ, I dont see this in scripture

9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.

10 And they cried out in a loud voice: Salvation to our God,who sits on the throne,and to the Lamb!

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes, he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?

14“Sir, I answered, “you know.

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


For years I have herd preachers say these are the one that came to Christ during the trinulation, these are preachers that also teach the pre trib....Now I just dont see it saying they came to CHrist during the tribulation, only that they died for Christ during the tribulation.

And as we dig more and more in the book of revelation it keeps saying no one repents, if we have so many people coming to Christ during the tribulation why does it says NO ONE REPENT...??

Revelation 16:9
They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Revelation 9:21
Nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,

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Actually the Mark of the Beast will be one of God's greatest blessings on mankind! More will be saved than at any other time! Yes they will be beheaded!

Waiting on him said:

I’m not necessarily looking for a bodily return.

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@Waiting on him Well, as I see it, the bodily ascension of Matthew 28 awaits a bodily return...

farouk said:

@Waiting on him Well, as I see it, the bodily ascension of Matthew 28 awaits a bodily return...

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Ok.

I guess once He gets all the good people out of the way, then He can slaughter all the sinners.

farouk said:

@Waiting on him Well, as I see it, the bodily ascension of Matthew 28 awaits a bodily return...

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Acts 1:6-11 KJV
[6] When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? [7] And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. [8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. [9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. [10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Waiting on him said:

Acts 1:6-11 KJV
[6] When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? [7] And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. [8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. [9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. [10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

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@Waiting on him Great passage...

farouk said:

@Waiting on him Great passage...

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Yes, kinda implied to me they were being told they would see His return.

Waiting on him said:

Yes, kinda implied to me they were being told they would see His return.

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"Ye"...His followers...

Dave M said:

In the book of revelation I see it says no one on earth repents, it says this several times.

Yet I here many preachers claiming that during the tribulation many people turned to Christ, I dont see this in scripture

9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.

10 And they cried out in a loud voice: Salvation to our God,who sits on the throne,and to the Lamb!

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes, he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?

14“Sir, I answered, “you know.

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


For years I have herd preachers say these are the one that came to Christ during the trinulation, these are preachers that also teach the pre trib....Now I just dont see it saying they came to CHrist during the tribulation, only that they died for Christ during the tribulation.

And as we dig more and more in the book of revelation it keeps saying no one repents, if we have so many people coming to Christ during the tribulation why does it says NO ONE REPENT...??

Revelation 16:9
They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Revelation 9:21
Nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,

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You are very correct. By the time the period of "great tribulation" starts, each individual will have decided already who they are going to follow. That is one of the main points of the coming tribulation, to represent a dividing line between followers of the devil vs. followers of Christ Jesus. This is why the majority of the world it is written will worship the "dragon", as per Revelation 13:4-8. And it is why Jesus forewarned that His servants would be hated, and delivered up to death (Mark 13).

The reason the false pre-trib rapture school made up the lie about 'tribulation saints', which they say is about Jews that come to Jesus 'during' the tribulation, is just to try and drum up support for their pre-trib rapture. They believe that when Jesus does return, the Jew's will have their kingdom restored on earth, while the Church will have been raptured to Heaven prior to the trib, and then reign in Heaven with Jesus after His return. That of course ain't written anywhere in God's Holy Writ.

One of the main reasons that pre-tribbers like John Darby had to dream up the trib saints idea is because of the Biblical written proof of saints going through the tribulation! They had to create some theory to explain why some of the Church will go through the tribulation! Kind of sick idea though. What's amazing though is how God's Word shows those going through the trib represent CHRIST'S VERY ELECT (Matthew 24:24). It's easy to attest, that if Christ's very elect go through the great trib, the rest of the Church will also.

What is... written in God's Word, is that the Church will... go through the "great tribulation" here on earth, and some of us will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ against the beast, and some of us will be killed for it, while others will fall away to the Antichrist and appear in shame when Jesus appears afterwards. And at the end of the trib Lord Jesus will return and destroy the Antichrist and deliver His 'faithful' Church, and take them with Him to Jerusalem (on earth) to reign with Him over all nations, which is about His future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14.

So if a believer finds his/herself in the great trib, will they be faithful waiting on Jesus' return to end it, that is the question? Our Lord Jesus even asked this question Himself...

Luke 18:7-8
7 And shall not God avenge His own elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them?
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?
KJV

JohnDB said:

The great tribulation lasts for how long?

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3 1/2 plus 3 1/2 equals 7 years.

@farouk ↑
@Waiting on him I would see it in John 16 as being the tribulation principle that is always there; remembering also that the Lord has overcome the world.

Whereas the wording in Matthew 24 seems to relate to a unique, future event, v. 21: " For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
Matthew 24:14 KJV
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Colossians 1:23 KJV
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
This has already taken place. I believe to teach any differently, is to insight fear.




Coincides well with:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Remember Peter, James and John were present during the transfiguration?

Luke 9:28-36

• 
  
  
  • "Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. As He prayed, the appearance of His face was altered, and His robe became white and glistening. And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. But Peter and those with him were heavy with sleep; and when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who stood with Him. Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. While he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were fearful as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” When the voice had ceased, Jesus was found alone. But they kept quiet, and told no one in those days any of the things they had seen."

I wonder why Lukes account states "8" days where Matt. and Mark say "6" days. hmm.

So we see that Peter, John, and James were still alive when Christ came in glory, into His Kingdom.

Every brick was pulled down in 70 A.D. When Rome destroyed the Temple...and we now have the Wailing Wall from the outer courtyardy type place outside the Temple.

These things I do believe already happened but...much of the warnings in Matthew 24 I cannot see as already have happened.

Matthew 24:15
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." 17

In my own take on this particular part is the: "When you see..."

Imagine the temple, supposedly being built now, already interviewing Priests too. Imagine the Jewish worshippers in the Temple, they at first fall for the "abomination that causes desolation" UNTILL...he places himself in God's house and claims he is God...yeah, I can see the place becoming really desolate really fast! Their period of temporary blindness would lift, recognizing (finally!) Their Messiah and they would probably be screaming "blasphemy, blasphemy and, hopefully seeking out Christians who were saved and gave glory to God through the bad stuff. Their eyes would be opened as...the "times of the Gentiles" would have already have been done , as I believe this takes place right before Christ's return?
Not at all a pro on end times, and could be very far off as, there are still some things that should add up more, I'd think. Some on here are awesome with eschatology and I find it fascinating, looking back in history at prophecy already fulfilled...to a TEE. Exciting to see it all unfold before our eyes.

This is truly the terminal generation!

Luke 21:32 (NKJV)
32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.