those that came out of the great tribulation when were they saved??

Waiting on him · Nov 5, 2020

Nancy said:
So we see that Peter, John, and James were still alive when Christ came in glory, into His Kingdom.

I’d have to say yes, but it wasn’t on the mountain that night.

Davy · Nov 5, 2020

Nancy said:
@farouk ↑
@Waiting on him I would see it in John 16 as being the tribulation principle that is always there; remembering also that the Lord has overcome the world.

Whereas the wording in Matthew 24 seems to relate to a unique, future event, v. 21: " For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
Matthew 24:14 KJV
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Colossians 1:23 KJV
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
This has already taken place. I believe to teach any differently, is to insight fear.

Coincides well with:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Remember Peter, James and John were present during the transfiguration?

Luke 9:28-36

"Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. As He prayed, the appearance of His face was altered, and His robe became white and glistening. And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. But Peter and those with him were heavy with sleep; and when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who stood with Him. Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. While he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were fearful as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” When the voice had ceased, Jesus was found alone. But they kept quiet, and told no one in those days any of the things they had seen."

I wonder why Lukes account states "8" days where Matt. and Mark say "6" days. hmm.

So we see that Peter, John, and James were still alive when Christ came in glory, into His Kingdom.

Every brick was pulled down in 70 A.D. When Rome destroyed the Temple...and we now have the Wailing Wall from the outer courtyardy type place outside the Temple.

These things I do believe already happened but...much of the warnings in Matthew 24 I cannot see as already have happened.

Matthew 24:15
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." 17

In my own take on this particular part is the: "When you see..."

Imagine the temple, supposedly being built now, already interviewing Priests too. Imagine the Jewish worshippers in the Temple, they at first fall for the "abomination that causes desolation" UNTILL...he places himself in God's house and claims he is God...yeah, I can see the place becoming really desolate really fast! Their period of temporary blindness would lift, recognizing (finally!) Their Messiah and they would probably be screaming "blasphemy, blasphemy and, hopefully seeking out Christians who were saved and gave glory to God through the bad stuff. Their eyes would be opened as...the "times of the Gentiles" would have already have been done , as I believe this takes place right before Christ's return?
Not at all a pro on end times, and could be very far off as, there are still some things that should add up more, I'd think. Some on here are awesome with eschatology and I find it fascinating, looking back in history at prophecy already fulfilled...to a TEE. Exciting to see it all unfold before our eyes.

You are actually just teaching a doctrine of men, and not pulling directly from God's Word. Anyone can select a few specific verses and apply them differently than the flow of the Bible chapter where they are written, and where other scriptures also exist to counter men's false doctrine.

Christ's 2nd coming is still expecting today, and no one knows that day. So men that say it already happened in the Apostle's day are falsely claiming they know what day that is, even with wrongly assigning it back in history. It's ignorance to say it already happened anyway, because the whole world would see Christ Jesus on His throne on earth today in Jerusalem, when the majority of Jews there don't even know Him.

As for Christ's prophesy of not one stone standing atop another in the temple mount area of Jerusalem, it's certainly obvious that has not yet to come to pass, because all one need do is look at the stones of the Dome of the Rock sitting today on that temple mount, and the huge stones of the Wailing Wall. To not be able to see that would mean someone put a blindfold on.

And for those who would claim that pointing to Christ's Olivet discourse as signs for the end leading up to Christ's future return, being an act of inciting fear, those who think that show they don't care... about Christ's command there for His servants to 'watch' for those signs of the end. Those deserve to be deceived by the coming Antichrist and appear in shame when Jesus returns.

Also, Christ's prophesy that The Gospel must first be published among all nations, and then the end would come, that NEVER happened in the Apostle's day, and nor has it happened yet today. The reason is because Jesus gave that prophesy within the subject of His elect being delivered up at the end to give a Testimony for Him, speaking by The Holy Spirit (Mark 13:9-13). That is talking about another manifestation of the Holy Spirit cloven tongue of Pentecost for the end of this world. That... is what that future event is actually about, and it was prophesied in Joel 2, which is teaching about the very end of this world just prior to the "day of the Lord" (when Jesus returns). In Christ's Olivet discourse He included signs linked to events to occur on the "day of the Lord", which is the final day of this present world.

And then the "abomination of desolation", which is about the placing of an idol in false worship in a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem, Jesus warned us about that sign for the end also in His Olivet discourse. Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. almost fulfilled that event to a tee, ending the daily sacrifices and going inside the temple in Jerusalem and sacrificing swine upon the altar, spiritually desolating it, and then in further desolation setting up an idol to Zeus and demanding the Jews to bow to it. Jesus proclaimed that type of event about 200 years AFTER... Antiochus had been dead, so that means look to the future for that coming event by the final Antichrist.

And just to prove further how men's false doctrines play games with God's Word and work against His faithful servants, they will claim all this above is a Dispensationalist view, trying to categorize me with the Pre-tribulationalists, when in fact I hold to a Post-tribulational future return of Jesus because that is what is written in God's Word (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27).

Davy · Nov 5, 2020

kcnalp said:
This is truly the terminal generation!

Luke 21:32 (NKJV)
32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

The other examples of Christ's Olivet discourse go with that, and actually is more specific on that subject...

Mark 13:30
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
KJV

Matt 24:34
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

All what "things"? "these"... things.

The Luke 21 version isn't as specific, so one might think He meant everything written.

But the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 versions are more specific, showing He was pointing specifically to the Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse there in those chapters. So in essence, He was saying, this generation shall not pass until all these Signs are fulfilled. Since the last Sign He gave there is the Sign of His 2nd coming and gathering of His Church, that means all those Signs are to happen to the FINAL generation on earth that will SEE His literal return.

Nancy · Nov 5, 2020

Davy said:
You are actually just teaching a doctrine of men, and not pulling directly from God's Word. Anyone can select a few specific verses and apply them differently than the flow of the Bible chapter where they are written, and where other scriptures also exist to counter men's false doctrine.

Christ's 2nd coming is still expecting today, and no one knows that day. So men that say it already happened in the Apostle's day are falsely claiming they know what day that is, even with wrongly assigning it back in history. It's ignorance to say it already happened anyway, because the whole world would see Christ Jesus on His throne on earth today in Jerusalem, when the majority of Jews there don't even know Him.

As for Christ's prophesy of not one stone standing atop another in the temple mount area of Jerusalem, it's certainly obvious that has not yet to come to pass, because all one need do is look at the stones of the Dome of the Rock sitting today on that temple mount, and the huge stones of the Wailing Wall. To not be able to see that would mean someone put a blindfold on.

And for those who would claim that pointing to Christ's Olivet discourse as signs for the end leading up to Christ's future return, being an act of inciting fear, those who think that show they don't care... about Christ's command there for His servants to 'watch' for those signs of the end. Those deserve to be deceived by the coming Antichrist and appear in shame when Jesus returns.

Also, Christ's prophesy that The Gospel must first be published among all nations, and then the end would come, that NEVER happened in the Apostle's day, and nor has it happened yet today. The reason is because Jesus gave that prophesy within the subject of His elect being delivered up at the end to give a Testimony for Him, speaking by The Holy Spirit (Mark 13:9-13). That is talking about another manifestation of the Holy Spirit cloven tongue of Pentecost for the end of this world. That... is what that future event is actually about, and it was prophesied in Joel 2, which is teaching about the very end of this world just prior to the "day of the Lord" (when Jesus returns). In Christ's Olivet discourse He included signs linked to events to occur on the "day of the Lord", which is the final day of this present world.

And then the "abomination of desolation", which is about the placing of an idol in false worship in a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem, Jesus warned us about that sign for the end also in His Olivet discourse. Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. almost fulfilled that event to a tee, ending the daily sacrifices and going inside the temple in Jerusalem and sacrificing swine upon the altar, spiritually desolating it, and then in further desolation setting up an idol to Zeus and demanding the Jews to bow to it. Jesus proclaimed that type of event about 200 years AFTER... Antiochus had been dead, so that means look to the future for that coming event by the final Antichrist.

And just to prove further how men's false doctrines play games with God's Word and work against His faithful servants, they will claim all this above is a Dispensationalist view, trying to categorize me with the Pre-tribulationalists, when in fact I hold to a Post-tribulational future return of Jesus because that is what is written in God's Word (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27).

Well, I am not a teacher and never claimed to be. Hence when I said "My take on this" or "I'm not a pro with eschatology. Can't you just fellowship and not be so harsh? We can and we ALL certainly DO give our opinion even when quoting scriptures. Everyone gives an opinion even when they "back it all up" with scripture. It is their OWN interpretation so...please do not say I am a teacher as I never claimed to be. It is bordering on bearing false witness.

kcnalp · Nov 5, 2020

Davy said:
The other examples of Christ's Olivet discourse go with that, and actually is more specific on that subject...

Mark 13:30
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
KJV

Matt 24:34
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

All what "things"? "these"... things.

The Luke 21 version isn't as specific, so one might think He meant everything written.

But the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 versions are more specific, showing He was pointing specifically to the Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse there in those chapters. So in essence, He was saying, this generation shall not pass until all these Signs are fulfilled. Since the last Sign He gave there is the Sign of His 2nd coming and gathering of His Church, that means all those Signs are to happen to the FINAL generation on earth that will SEE His literal return.

Preterist?

Davy · Nov 5, 2020

Nancy said:
Well, I am not a teacher and never claimed to be. Hence when I said "My take on this" or "I'm not a pro with eschatology. Can't you just fellowship and not be so harsh? We can and we ALL certainly DO give our opinion even when quoting scriptures. Everyone gives an opinion even when they "back it all up" with scripture. It is their OWN interpretation so...please do not say I am a teacher as I never claimed to be. It is bordering on bearing false witness.

I wasn't giving opinion Nancy, not even in my final paragraph. I pointed to what the Scriptures actually show vs. what men say. I know you don't follow what all men's doctrines teach, but I'd lie if I said you don't pick up certain ideas from preachers.

Davy · Nov 5, 2020

kcnalp said:
Preterist?

Absolutely not! Post-tribulationalist/pre-Millennialist.

Nancy · Nov 5, 2020

Waiting on him said:
I’d have to say yes, but it wasn’t on the mountain that night.

Not sure what you mean here Waiting. "but it wasn't on the mountain that night"?

Nancy · Nov 5, 2020

Davy said:
I wasn't giving opinion Nancy, not even in my final paragraph. I pointed to what the Scriptures actually show vs. what men say. I know you don't follow what all men's doctrines teach, but I'd lie if I said you don't pick up certain ideas from preachers.

Funny thing is that, there are very few preachers I listen to. This site and my bible is my go to for learning and fellowship. I'm no scholar, for sure yet...God knows that I am open to whatever He has to reveal to me, I do not and never have had good study habits and am learning with a new Inductive study bible. It is helping me with study and understanding as, there is a bible study at the end of each book...it is helping me to discern things I never saw before so, please forgive my ignorance, I'm learning bro.

God Bless!
Nancy

CharismaticLady · Nov 5, 2020

Nancy said:
Well, I am not a teacher and never claimed to be. Hence when I said "My take on this" or "I'm not a pro with eschatology. Can't you just fellowship and not be so harsh? We can and we ALL certainly DO give our opinion even when quoting scriptures. Everyone gives an opinion even when they "back it all up" with scripture. It is their OWN interpretation so...please do not say I am a teacher as I never claimed to be. It is bordering on bearing false witness.

It is interesting that you can quote a scripture that completely undoes another's view, and they either do not respond, or respond with silly human reasoning. You're a smart cookie, and I love you!!!

kcnalp · Nov 5, 2020

Davy said:
Absolutely not! Post-tribulationalist/pre-Millennialist.

Jesus said that we can indeed know when THE END is coming. Not the day nor hour, but we can know. The time is at hand.

Luke 21:28 (NKJV)
28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

CharismaticLady · Nov 5, 2020

kcnalp said:
Jesus said that we can indeed know when THE END is coming. Not the day nor hour, but we can know. The time is at hand.

Luke 21:28 (NKJV)
28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

In relation to when Jesus comes in Revelation and where the GT ends, try to see where Revelation 8 plays out as that is most likely on April 13, 2029, and count back the 7 years of tribulation. That is when the Antichrist will be revealed. It could be 17 months away! No more Gentiles will come into the Church when the Antichrist is revealed.

kcnalp · Nov 5, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
In relation to when Jesus comes in Revelation and where the GT ends, try to see where Revelation 8 plays out as that is most likely on April 13, 2029, and count back the 7 years of tribulation. That is when the Antichrist will be revealed. It could be 17 months away! No more Gentiles will come into the Church when the Antichrist is revealed.

Revelation 8:1 (NKJV)
1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

Does that mean there won't be any women in Heaven? lol

Ziggy · Nov 5, 2020

The hard part is (tribulation) getting the Jews and the Gentiles to walk together with One God. with One Spirit, One Baptism..
and i don't know which side is more stubborn.. they both seem pretty obstinate in my opinion.

HUGS

Nancy · Nov 5, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
It is interesting that you can quote a scripture that completely undoes another's view, and they either do not respond, or respond with silly human reasoning. You're a smart cookie, and I love you!!!

Well, gee...that is something I NEVER hear, thank you!!!!! I love you too my friend and sister

And that seems to be the way sometimes on here, I only seem to get "corrected" and labeled a "false teacher", basically, lol...funny thing? I am NOT A TEACHER! LOL. Is everyone on here who reply's to posts a teacher ?

And is "opinion" not allowed?
Thanks for the kind words sissy.
xoxo

CharismaticLady · Nov 5, 2020

Nancy said:
Well, gee...that is something I NEVER hear, thank you!!!!! I love you too my friend and sister
And that seems to be the way sometimes on here, I only seem to get "corrected" and labeled a "false teacher", basically, lol...funny thing? I am NOT A TEACHER! LOL. Is everyone on here who reply's to posts a teacher ? And is "opinion" not allowed?
Thanks for the kind words sissy.
xoxo

"Sissy"??? I'm no sissy! I take on the big guns! LOL

Nancy · Nov 5, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
"Sissy"??? I'm no sissy! I take on the big guns! LOL

You go girl!

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Waiting on him · Nov 5, 2020

kcnalp said:
Revelation 8:1 (NKJV)
1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

Does that mean there won't be any women in Heaven? lol

I personally believe this is when my Lord was hanging upon the cross.

Waiting on him · Nov 5, 2020

Nancy said:
Well, gee...that is something I NEVER hear, thank you!!!!! I love you too my friend and sister
And that seems to be the way sometimes on here, I only seem to get "corrected" and labeled a "false teacher", basically, lol...funny thing? I am NOT A TEACHER! LOL. Is everyone on here who reply's to posts a teacher ? And is "opinion" not allowed?
Thanks for the kind words sissy.
xoxo

Lol, I guess I do seem absolute in some of the things I post, nothing could be further from the truth. I’m not alleging to be a teacher either.

CharismaticLady · Nov 5, 2020

Waiting on him said:
I personally believe this is when my Lord was hanging upon the cross.

That sounds nice, but the timing seems off. Besides only half an hour when He was suffering much longer than that?

Someone also suggested silent prayer. Personally, I haven't a clue what that verse is referring to. Do you think half an hour would be long enough for heaven to be abandoned with all the angels and saints coming with Jesus to earth for the second coming?

those that came out of the great tribulation when were they saved??

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