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Thank you, bbyrd, for making my evening a little more surreal. ;)

I think we have to remember where those prophets were when God delivered them. This is why I believe it a call of deliverance appealing to the faithfulness of God.

I think that there was "extra help" in that I believe Christ remained on the cross in faith by the power of the Spirit. But like us, He was forsaken to suffer and die (physically). Like @Steve Owen pointed out in his definition of "forsake", God withdrew His help in terms of delivering Him from...

I believe that Jesus' entire life of obedience to the Father was through the power of the Spirit (that Jesus' obedience was not through His own power but through faith). The reason I look it this way is that we are told that Jesus did nothing of his own accord. I think that this is reflective of...

No one is trying to make the question say anything other than what it says. It is a question in the text. Do you believe Christ was confused and did not understand what was happening? If we allow Scripture to interpret the question then it was a cry for deliverance. If we just let it stand...

@marks You made an interesting statement (one that I also affirm) in your reference to Jesus’ words "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?". You said that it means "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?" because we need to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture. I agree. But at the same time are...

And rightly so. Anytime (everytime) someone argues "plain meaning of Scripture" you know they are arguing from a baseless position (it is a fallacy).

Are you serious? I have answered this exact question at least five times. Christ had to share in our infirmities. He was forsaken to suffer and die for us. Not abandoned by God but also not delivered from suffering so that He who had no sin would die in obedience to God for us to deliver us...

I need to be clear as well. I absolutely agree that no one took Christ's life from Him but He lay it down willingly. I also believe He died at the hands of wicked men. I do not see this as a contradiction at all. Where we need to be clear, IMHO, is that Christ's death was not suicide. He did...

Yes. God withheld deliverance from suffering and death yet God delivered Christ through suffering and death. That is a lesson we can all apply to our lives. When forsaken to suffer we should be able to have peace knowing that God is there, will never abandon us, and will deliver us through our...

You misunderstand. My comments are not snide. I legitimately believe your ideas are wrong. Likewise I do not think your position that I am wrong to be snideness on your part. When we disagree (even when we disagree strongly) we need to do so as Christians, as adults, and with honesty. This...

Amen. Scripture tells us a few things about God and how the righteous will fare. God will never abandon or forsake the righteous (as Psalm 22 demonstrates). God will never condemn the righteous. The righteous one is Christ and it is in Him that we find righteousness. On the cross Christ was...

"Yet Michael the archangel by whom is meant, not a created angel, but an eternal one, the Lord Jesus Christ; as appears from his name Michael, which signifies, "who is as God": and who is as God, or like unto him, but the Son of God, who is equal with God? and from his character as the...

Acts 2:23 "this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death." I believe this is literal because of how Peter treats their guilt. They were not innocent of Christ's death, but acted in ignorance...

Sorry. I did not realize that was the extent to which you took the theory. I did not mean to call you personally a heretic. But the belief that God separated from Jesus is heresy. I think we have to appeal to Scripture and not men like A.W. Pink when these types of errors creep in. The reason...

I agree. Christ lay down his life in obedience to the Father (it was by the preordained will of God) and died at the hands of wicked men.

I think it is both. Jesus lay down his life via death at the hands of wicked men. My thinking is that Jesus experienced more than we can understand and his work is do vast so as not to be contained totally in Scripture. But I think we can only stand on what is written in Scripture. I suppose...

You are confused about what I believe. That is probably my fault and I apologize. John 6:43-51 “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. [45] It is written in the prophets, 'And THEY SHALL ALL BE...

You misunderstood, I think. I am not calling you a heretic. I am agreeing with you that Christ felt that he was left to suffer and die. He was forsaken to suffer and die. God did not spare His Son. I am saying it is heresy to believe God abandoned Christ (as in withdrew or separated from...

I think it is twofold. Jesus lay down His life but at the same time Acts tells pointedly that he was killed at the hands of godless men. I do not know if we have to deny one to affirm the other. We are told what happens. Christ suffers, is mocked, shows grace to a thief, speaks with John and...