Rev 4:11 mentions “forever and ever”
forever
αἰῶνας (aiōnas)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Plural
Strong's 165: From the same as aei; properly, an age
[and] ever.
αἰώνων (aiōnōn)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's 165: From the same as aei; properly, an age;
It's clearly two different words used here. Both of which, literally, refer to an "age". Naturally, ages continue, one after a another, so you can see here, how it literally means "from an age to an age".
Now, tell me, if someone is the age of 1 years old, how long are they 1 years old? A year, obviously. But, someone does not stay at the same "age" as a 1 year old forever.
Clearly, the word aionios refers to a temporary length of time, as is written in the original Greek of the New Testament.
But how many verses mention this limited duration?
Gen. ix:12-16; Gen. xvii:8,13,19; and Num. xxv:13; Ex. xii:14,17; xxvii:21; xxviii:43; xxix:28; xxx:21; xxxi:16,17; Lev. vi:18,22; vii:34,36; x:15; xvi:29,31,34; xvii:7; xxiii:14,31,41; xxiv:3,8,9. Num. x:8; xv:15; xviii:8,11,19,23; xix:10,21; II Sam. xxiii:5; I Chron. xvi:17; Isa. xxiv:5; Ezek. xvi:60; Psa. lxxvii:5; Isa lxiii:11; Jer. vi:16; xviii:15; Job xxi:11; xxii:15; Isa. lviii:12; lxi:4; Ezek. xxvi:20; Prov. xxii:28; xxiii:10; Ezek. xxxvi:2; xxxv:5; Isa. liv:4; Jer. v:22; xviii:16; xxv:9,12; Ezek. xxxv:9; Jer. xx:17; xxiii:40; li:39; Micah ii:9.
How can an aion be endless if it’s plural? Why are these phrases repeated, aion to aion? A forever and a forever? One forever should take up the whole space already! If it’s two “forever words”, then neither forever words can be forever. A child who’s a 1-year-old forever would not age into the next age of a 2 year old! Yes, because we go beyond aions! It’s impossible to go beyond forever! But when we see “aion” as age, then this makes sense!-- ton aiona kai ep aiona kai eti: eis tous aionas kai eti. -- See (Sept.) Ex. 15:18; Dan. 12:3; Micah 4:5. And even still, we reach the end of the aion? -- Matt. 13:39,40,49; 24:3; 28:20; I Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26. A 1 year old child who’s 1 year old forever must always stay 1 years old, yet here you go, their 2nd birthday parties coming up in these verses! And the cherry on top of this yummy Christian Universalist cake is that aion is literally defined as finite: Mark 4:19; Acts 3:21; Rom. 12:2; I Cor. 1:20, 2:20, 2:6, 3:18, 10:11.
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (NIV)
Merely states that the condition of entering heaven is not saying "Lord, Lord". I agree with this. To be saved, one must have faith alone in Christ. A lot of people pretend to be Christian by title, but aren't. It's not enough to merely recognize that God is one, like the demons do, but to believe in Christ to be made clean of all sins.
Just because someone is unable to enter Heaven at a present time period, does not mean that they are banned from Heaven forever. It’s like if someone below 18 wants to go to a bar, where only those above 18 can enter. Are they permanently banned from entering the bar? No. Only for that age, but in the next aion, when they are above 18, then behold, they can enter.
Look, for everybody, since we’re all sinners. At one point or another we were all “banned” from entering Heaven for a present moment. Yes, there was a time where none of us knew who Christ Jesus really was! But were we banned forever? No! If Christ is permanently banning one person from Heaven, then well, we’re all banned from Heaven, because we’re all sinners. Yet, some of us are going to Heaven, and because some are by mercy and grace of the Father, therefore all of us will eventually.
Whether it's KJV, ASV, NASB, etc like all the verses shown, the Bible was not written in English, simply put. No matter how many English translations say “forever”, the Bible was not written in English! All of those are English translations, at the end of the day. The only thing that matters is, literally, the original language that these verses were written in.
Look, I could make up a fake language and randomly assigned any sort of meaning to Bible words.
Certainly, Strong is merely a man who speaks English. It's interesting that you include a link to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, because the definition literally says
Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age
Definition: a space of time, an age
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages
It is, therefore, impossible for a single age to be infinite, because it must be occupied by mutliple ages. If a child stays a 1 year old forever, then they cannot progress into a 2 year old. Yet, clearly, the Bible teaches that there is a series of ages.
A series of ages...... Yet, people are only torment for one age, or maybe many ages if you want to go that route. But how can a person be tormented for every single age? Would they not have had to been tortured since the beginning?
If you look at the wording "forever and ever". Why is there another ever?
Mark 9:42-48
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
γέενναν (geennan)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 1067: Of Hebrew origin; valley of Hinnom; ge-henna, a valley of Jerusalem, used as a name for the place of everlasting punishment.
"everlasting" of course, meaning aionios meaning "pertaning to an age" meaning temporary
Unquenchable fire, God is a consuming fire Hebrews 12:29. Who can stop God? Nobody. Yet, does God ever stop doing good, no. God is a God that is not angry forever, therefore who does not torture forever
Matthew 8:11-13
merely states that there's an outer darkness, but does not say that that state of weeping ang gnashing of teeth lasts forever
Matthew 13:41-43 Matthew 13:49-50
furnace of fire. alright, but no mention that the state of being in a furnace of fire lasts forever. in fact, no blacksmith would leave an iron ingot in the fire forever, but puts it in their temporarily so it can be molded into a desired shape. it's like leaving bread in the oven, you leave it in there until it's cooked, not forever.
Jude 4-7, 12-13
everlasting meaning aionios meaning an age, which is a temporary limited amount of time
Revelation 20:10
forever and ever, describing aion, an age, which is a limited amount of time, or even aions if you want, a limited ser
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
All those terms not show that the torment lasts forever
eternal fire = aionios fire = fire for an age
PSALM 103:8-14 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy. He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever.
He will not always strive with us because eventually all people will be molded into the desired shape by the unquenchable fire that is the Lord's love, mercy and grace. Surely, the Lord is unquenchable, His will can not be stopped. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Lord's desire is to torture forever, that is not His will.
"Hell" here is translated as
2 Timothy 4:1
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: (NIV)
Certainly there will be judgment, but let's not forget James 2:13
Mercy triumphs over judgment.
And as we know, judgment is not permanent, as all punishment is meant to be correctional. The Lord does not cast off forever
LAMENTATIONS 3:31-33 For men are not cast off by the Lord forever. Though he may punish cruelly, yet he will have compassion in the fullness of his love; he does not willingly afflict or punish any mortal man.
forever
αἰῶνας (aiōnas)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Plural
Strong's 165: From the same as aei; properly, an age
[and] ever.
αἰώνων (aiōnōn)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's 165: From the same as aei; properly, an age;
It's clearly two different words used here. Both of which, literally, refer to an "age". Naturally, ages continue, one after a another, so you can see here, how it literally means "from an age to an age".
Now, tell me, if someone is the age of 1 years old, how long are they 1 years old? A year, obviously. But, someone does not stay at the same "age" as a 1 year old forever.
Clearly, the word aionios refers to a temporary length of time, as is written in the original Greek of the New Testament.
But how many verses mention this limited duration?
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
Printed in 1875, this book written by John Wesley Hanson offers a thorough examination the meaning of the Greek word AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS, translated Everlasting -- Eternal, proving it denotes Limited Duration.
www.tentmaker.org
How can an aion be endless if it’s plural? Why are these phrases repeated, aion to aion? A forever and a forever? One forever should take up the whole space already! If it’s two “forever words”, then neither forever words can be forever. A child who’s a 1-year-old forever would not age into the next age of a 2 year old! Yes, because we go beyond aions! It’s impossible to go beyond forever! But when we see “aion” as age, then this makes sense!-- ton aiona kai ep aiona kai eti: eis tous aionas kai eti. -- See (Sept.) Ex. 15:18; Dan. 12:3; Micah 4:5. And even still, we reach the end of the aion? -- Matt. 13:39,40,49; 24:3; 28:20; I Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26. A 1 year old child who’s 1 year old forever must always stay 1 years old, yet here you go, their 2nd birthday parties coming up in these verses! And the cherry on top of this yummy Christian Universalist cake is that aion is literally defined as finite: Mark 4:19; Acts 3:21; Rom. 12:2; I Cor. 1:20, 2:20, 2:6, 3:18, 10:11.
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (NIV)
Merely states that the condition of entering heaven is not saying "Lord, Lord". I agree with this. To be saved, one must have faith alone in Christ. A lot of people pretend to be Christian by title, but aren't. It's not enough to merely recognize that God is one, like the demons do, but to believe in Christ to be made clean of all sins.
Just because someone is unable to enter Heaven at a present time period, does not mean that they are banned from Heaven forever. It’s like if someone below 18 wants to go to a bar, where only those above 18 can enter. Are they permanently banned from entering the bar? No. Only for that age, but in the next aion, when they are above 18, then behold, they can enter.
Look, for everybody, since we’re all sinners. At one point or another we were all “banned” from entering Heaven for a present moment. Yes, there was a time where none of us knew who Christ Jesus really was! But were we banned forever? No! If Christ is permanently banning one person from Heaven, then well, we’re all banned from Heaven, because we’re all sinners. Yet, some of us are going to Heaven, and because some are by mercy and grace of the Father, therefore all of us will eventually.
Whether it's KJV, ASV, NASB, etc like all the verses shown, the Bible was not written in English, simply put. No matter how many English translations say “forever”, the Bible was not written in English! All of those are English translations, at the end of the day. The only thing that matters is, literally, the original language that these verses were written in.
Look, I could make up a fake language and randomly assigned any sort of meaning to Bible words.
Certainly, Strong is merely a man who speaks English. It's interesting that you include a link to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, because the definition literally says
Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age
Definition: a space of time, an age
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages
It is, therefore, impossible for a single age to be infinite, because it must be occupied by mutliple ages. If a child stays a 1 year old forever, then they cannot progress into a 2 year old. Yet, clearly, the Bible teaches that there is a series of ages.
A series of ages...... Yet, people are only torment for one age, or maybe many ages if you want to go that route. But how can a person be tormented for every single age? Would they not have had to been tortured since the beginning?
If you look at the wording "forever and ever". Why is there another ever?
Mark 9:42-48
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
γέενναν (geennan)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 1067: Of Hebrew origin; valley of Hinnom; ge-henna, a valley of Jerusalem, used as a name for the place of everlasting punishment.
"everlasting" of course, meaning aionios meaning "pertaning to an age" meaning temporary
Unquenchable fire, God is a consuming fire Hebrews 12:29. Who can stop God? Nobody. Yet, does God ever stop doing good, no. God is a God that is not angry forever, therefore who does not torture forever
Matthew 8:11-13
merely states that there's an outer darkness, but does not say that that state of weeping ang gnashing of teeth lasts forever
Matthew 13:41-43 Matthew 13:49-50
furnace of fire. alright, but no mention that the state of being in a furnace of fire lasts forever. in fact, no blacksmith would leave an iron ingot in the fire forever, but puts it in their temporarily so it can be molded into a desired shape. it's like leaving bread in the oven, you leave it in there until it's cooked, not forever.
Jude 4-7, 12-13
everlasting meaning aionios meaning an age, which is a temporary limited amount of time
Revelation 20:10
forever and ever, describing aion, an age, which is a limited amount of time, or even aions if you want, a limited ser
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
All those terms not show that the torment lasts forever
eternal fire = aionios fire = fire for an age
PSALM 103:8-14 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy. He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever.
He will not always strive with us because eventually all people will be molded into the desired shape by the unquenchable fire that is the Lord's love, mercy and grace. Surely, the Lord is unquenchable, His will can not be stopped. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Lord's desire is to torture forever, that is not His will.
"Hell" here is translated as
2 Timothy 4:1
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: (NIV)
Certainly there will be judgment, but let's not forget James 2:13
Mercy triumphs over judgment.
And as we know, judgment is not permanent, as all punishment is meant to be correctional. The Lord does not cast off forever
LAMENTATIONS 3:31-33 For men are not cast off by the Lord forever. Though he may punish cruelly, yet he will have compassion in the fullness of his love; he does not willingly afflict or punish any mortal man.
