2 Cor 12:2 NIV I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.JimParker said:I didn't say anything about any "third heaven." The Bible does not define "third heaven."
3rd - Deut 10:14 NIV To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.
3rd - 1 Kings 8:27 NIV "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!
3rd - Psalm 78:23 NIV Yet he gave a command to the skies above and opened the doors of the heavens;
3rd - Psalm 115:16 NIV The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to mankind.
3rd - Psalm 148:4 NIV Praise him, you highest heavens and you waters above the skies.
3rd - Isa 14:13-14 NIV You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. 14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”
3rd - Ez 1:1 NIV In my thirtieth year, in the fourth month on the fifth day, while I was among the exiles by the Kebar River, the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God.
3rd - Mark 1:10 NIV Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.
3rd - Luke 23:43 NIV Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
3rd - Acts 7:56 NIV "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
3rd - 2 Cor 12:2 NIV I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.
3rd - 2 Cor 12:4 NIV was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.
3rd - Gal 4:26 NIV But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
3rd - Heb 4:14 NIV Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.
3rd - Heb 7:26 NIV Such a high priest truly meets our need--one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
3rd - Heb 8:1 NIV Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
3rd - Heb 12:22 NIV But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
3rd - Rev 2:7 NIV Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
3rd - Rev 3:12 NIV The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
Hades is only used once in the Bible as hell fire, in Luke 16:19-31. The remainder of the Bible, Hades is the grave. I would submit that in that passage Jesus is alluding to something the Pharisees would have been familiar with. The Song of Moses was a description of how Israel would turn away from Him. In the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man I believe Jesus is speaking of the priesthood and their demise. Here is the passage I believe Jesus is alluding too. Hell in this passage of Deu 32 is Sheol. Because Sheol/Hades is the grave and Gehenna is the place of fire. I think the Pharisees would see the connection between Jesus' words and the Song of Moses...JimParker said:Jesus used the illustration of Lazarus, the rich man and Abraham, all being dead in the body but, in some manner, alive, awake, conscious and conversing with each other after their death. If it weren't an accurate description of reality, then it would be a meaningless teaching and Jesus would have been babbling.
Deut 32:18-22 YLT The Rock that begat thee thou forgettest, And neglectest God who formeth thee. 19And Jehovah seeth and despiseth — For the provocation of His sons and His daughters. 20And He saith: I hide My face from them, I see what [is] their latter end; For a froward generation [are] they, Sons in whom is no stedfastness. 21They have made Me zealous by ‘no-god,’ They made Me angry by their vanities; And I make them zealous by ‘no-people,’ By a foolish nation I make them angry. 22For a fire hath been kindled in Mine anger, And it burneth unto Sheol — the lowest, And consumeth earth and its increase, And setteth on fire foundations of mountains.
The Priesthood - I'm thinking that he used Hades instead of Gehenna or the Lake of Fire, so we would make the distinction between the priesthood in this life vs. the afterlife. If Luke used Gehenna or the Lake of Fire, then we would be certain he was referring to the afterlife, but he didn't. So we know he was simply telling a story about the demise of the priesthood and has nothing to do with the afterlife. Luke could of wrote it like this, but he didn't......
Example 1: Verse 22-23 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In Gehenna, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Example 2: Verse 22-23 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In the Lake of Fire, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Let's take a look at Luke 16:19 NIV “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
1. Purple is a color which is used in Scripture for the following: priestly garments (Ex 39:2, 24, 29); royal apparel (Judges 8:26; Esther 8:15); and is synonymous with wealth in Rev 18:16.
2. Fine linen was used extensively in the priestly garments such as the ephod, robe, mitre, and bonnet. (Ex 39). Linen is used as a symbol of wealth in Rev 18:16.
3. Only one class in Israel was habitually clothed in purple and linen and fared sumptuously every day4 - the High Priestly class of Sadducees.
It was a vision Jim. Do you understand what a vision is. It is a vision about the second coming of Christ.JimParker said:Moses, after he had been dead for 1500 years, appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration, in some manner, alive, awake, conscious and conversing with Jesus. Either that's what took place or Matthew and Mark are making up stories.
Well, technically you're in the present. Tomorrow is the future brother, and Rev 20 takes place in the future.JimParker said:We are in the future.
So who are the “cloud of witnesses,” and how is it they “surround” us? To understand this, we need to look at the previous chapter, as evidenced by the word therefore beginning chapter 12. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the rest of the Old Testament believers looked forward with faith to the coming of the Messiah. The author of Hebrews illustrates this eloquently in chapter 11 and then ends the chapter by telling us that the forefathers had faith to guide and direct them, but God had something better planned. Then he begins chapter 12 with a reference to these faithful men and women who paved the way for us. What the Old Testament believers looked forward to in faith—the Messiah—we look back to, having seen the fulfillment of all the prophecies concerning His first coming.JimParker said:In Hebrews, we are told of the cloud of witnesses who surround us and yet have been dead for centuries and millennia. In order to do surround us they have to move and in order to be witnesses, they must be, in some manner, alive, awake, conscious and watching and listening.
We are surrounded by the saints of the past in a unique way. It’s not that the faithful who have gone before us are spectators to the race we run. Rather, it is a figurative representation and means that we ought to act as if they were in sight and cheering us on to the same victory in the life of faith that they obtained. We are to be inspired by the godly examples these saints set during their lives. These are those whose past lives of faith encourage others to live that way, too. That the cloud is referred to as “great” indicates that millions of believers have gone before us, each bearing witness to the life of faith we now live.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/cloud-of-witnesses.html#ixzz3Wh6FMisR