1599 Geneva Bible!!!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,902
2,568
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
From a book I am rereading at the moment:

Problems began under James I, whose somewhat extravagant notion of the “divine right of kings” caused considerable political difficulties. The idea had been around since the Middle Ages; James, however, developed it in what many regarded as an unacceptable, even downright eccentric, way.11 The basic idea is summarized neatly in the opening sonnet of James’s Basilikon Doron (1598), written while he was still king of Scotland:

God gives not Kings the style of Gods in vain, For on his throne his Sceptre do they sway.

In some 1609 speeches to Parliament, James made it clear that he regarded himself as above the law, which was his instrument for ruling on God’s behalf.

The king’s subsequent dissolution of Parliament in 1611 was entirely consistent with his theology; it did nothing, however, to endear him to the increasingly powerful and vocal gentry. Sir Edward Coke (1552–1634) led the intellectual opposition to James’s interpretation of the “divine right of kings,” arguing that the king was under the law, not above it. Law was not something the king could use as he pleased to enforce his will; rather, it set limits to his actions.

The Anglican establishment felt that it had no choice but to support James in this matter. It required little critical acumen to notice that James’s theology of kingship lent support to the idea of religious establishment, thus safeguarding their positions, status, and incomes at a time of uncertainty. James had made it clear that he was resolutely opposed to “Papists and Puritans” and that he intended to steer a middle way between these two camps. The theory of the divine right of kings neatly locked church and king together in a robust circle of mutual support and reinforcement, in effect making the established church impervious to significant parliamentary criticism.

Yet the most significant criticism of James’ doctrine was theological. The theological foundation for the doctrine of “monarchomachy” — the idea that severe restrictions were to be placed upon the rights of kings, so that the people had both a right and a duty to resist tyrannical monarchs — was laid in France in response to the massacre of St. Bartholomew’s Day in 1572. Some years earlier, John Calvin — perhaps beginning to recognize the practical and political importance of the question — had conceded that rulers might exceed the bounds of their authority by setting themselves against God; when they did so, he suggested, they abrogated their own power. These ideas were developed and extended by his French followers in the aftermath of the events of 1572. François Hotman, Theodore Beza, and Philippe Duplessis-Mornay all emphasized precisely the same point: tyrants are to be resisted.12 The primary Christian duty to obey God is to be placed above any secondary obligation to obey a human ruler.

Puritan writers thus deconstructed the notion of the divine right of kings with theological ease and personal glee, pointing out its lack of biblical warrant. For them, the king’s excesses highlighted the virtues of the republicanism of Calvin’s Geneva. These virtues were emphasized by one of the most important English translations of the Bible — the so-called Geneva Bible, produced by English exiles at Geneva during the reign of Mary Tudor and published in 1560. It was probably the finest translation of its age. Yet its growing popularity in the reign of James I rested largely on an additional feature of this translation — its marginal notes.13

As we have emphasized time and time again, the vexed issue of biblical interpretation lies at the heart of the Protestant theological enterprise. Where earlier English Protestants, such as William Tyndale, had assumed — not a little optimistically, as it turned out — that the Bible, once translated, could easily be understood by any plowboy, the Geneva Bible explicitly recognized that there were “hard places” — that is, passages of the Bible that needed more than a little explanation. The marginal notes of the Geneva Bible provided its readers with clear explanations of the meanings of important yet potentially obscure biblical texts. Unsurprisingly, the interpretations offered were those associated with Calvin’s Geneva — theologically Reformed and politically republican. And equally unsurprisingly, the notes were highly critical of any idea of the “divine right of kings.”

The Geneva Bible provided powerful ammunition to those who challenged the theological basis of James’s ideology of kingship.14 Commenting on Daniel being thrown into the lions’ den, the Geneva Bible notes that Daniel “disobeyed the king’s wicked commandment in order to obey God.” The implication is clear: God approves of those who resist the unjust demands of kings. Much the same point is made in relation to the account of the Exodus. God ended Pharaoh’s oppression of his people through Moses. And God will deal in the same way with any other kings who oppress his people. It was not difficult to make the connection with James’s abortive attempts to rule England.

One of the biblical texts seized upon by the supporters of the “divine right of kings” was Psalm 105:15: “Do not touch mine anointed.” The meaning of the text was clear, they argued: the people are forbidden to take any form of violent action against God’s anointed one — in other words, the king. The Geneva Bible interpreted this verse in a rather different way: kings are forbidden to oppress or take any violent action against God’s anointed people. The implicit theological justification of republicanism could hardly be overlooked — as James himself knew.

James had encountered the Geneva Bible while in Scotland and cordially detested its marginal notes. One of his most significant religious actions as the new king of England was his 1604 command that a new English translation of the Bible was to be made — a translation that eventually appeared in 1611 and is widely known as the King James Bible. This new translation, he insisted, would have no marginal notes. Yet the new translation proved to be a commercial flop. The Geneva Bible reigned supreme until the restoration of the monarchy under Charles II — even though James banned its production in England in 1616.

Perhaps it might be prudent to tell us what book you are reading, who its author is and when it was first published, etc. so that we too can read it and be able to draw our own conclusions.

Thanks
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,566
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The issue is many read it to say God created the earth in that condition, when he did not.


Specifically What "condition" are you in disagreement with?

And you don't see Easter as an error?

No.

That is pure defense of the KJV over accuracy.

No. I simply am not offended by particular words that individuals use to commentate a a particular event regarding Jesus.


Easter and Passover bear no resemblance to each other.

So?


You are offended at the word Easter being used...."according to Herods intentions"....so what? What baring does that have on Peter's beliefs? ZIP.

Easter is a doctrinal statement that is erroneous.

That is your opinion. Did the text need to read.....Herod was putting off his intentions, regarding Peter.....because Herod was going to be busy observing "passover" ?

You are taking a KJVO position.

So? You are not. Proves nothing except that you and I disagree.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Mjh29

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,466
1,433
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Specifically What "condition" are you in disagreement with?



No.



No. I simply am not offended by particular words that individuals use to commentate a a particular event regarding Jesus.




So?


You are offended at the word Easter being used...."according to Herods intentions"....so what? What baring does that have on Peter's beliefs? ZIP.



That is your opinion. Did the text need to read.....Herod was putting off his intentions, regarding Peter.....because Herod was going to be busy observing "passover" ?



So? You are not. Proves nothing except that you and I disagree.

Glory to God,
Taken

... So how do you feel about the Geneva translation? Just curious
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,566
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
... So how do you feel about the Geneva translation? Just curious

In general? I do not own a copy, but have read some from online sources. No complaints.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
 

Mjh29

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,466
1,433
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In general? I do not own a copy, but have read some from online sources. No complaints.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

I imagined so. It is very, very similar to the KJV. A few minor differences in the verses, and the Geneva has notes, but mostly the same. Thanks for the input!
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I imagined so. It is very, very similar to the KJV. A few minor differences in the verses, and the Geneva has notes, but mostly the same. Thanks for the input!
The KJV and the Geneva Bible are simply cousins, with the latter having a more Calvinistic bias. But all Reformation Bibles belong to one family, whereas all modern versions belong to ANOTHER family.

Had the original attempt to update the KJV in 1881 been honest, all Bibles would continue to resemble the KJV (and more distantly the Geneva Bible).

But there was a dishonest and dishonorable attempt to *dethrone* the Received Text and the Authorized Version by people such as Westcott & Hort, in order to replace the text and the translation. Burgon and Scrivener (with a few others) opposed these innovations, but nobody listened to them. However, the truth remains the truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mjh29

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The KJV and the Geneva Bible are simply cousins, with the latter having a more Calvinistic bias. But all Reformation Bibles belong to one family, whereas all modern versions belong to ANOTHER family.

Had the original attempt to update the KJV in 1881 been honest, all Bibles would continue to resemble the KJV (and more distantly the Geneva Bible).

But there was a dishonest and dishonorable attempt to *dethrone* the Received Text and the Authorized Version by people such as Westcott & Hort, in order to replace the text and the translation. Burgon and Scrivener (with a few others) opposed these innovations, but nobody listened to them. However, the truth remains the truth.

Received Text...
from who?

Where was the Bible before 1611 according to your thinking?
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In the least, Not seeing your issue.



Acts 12:4 And when he (king Herod) apprehended him, (Peter), he (King Herod) put him (Peter) in prison, and delivered him (Peter) to four quaternions of soldiers (king Herods soldiers) to keep him (Peter); intending after Easter to bring him (Peter) forth the people (Jews inside the city).

What does Peter's Belief in the passover celebration, have to do with king Herods belief in Easter and Herods Intent to do something after an Easter day, that pertained to Herods intentions?



First of all, you made a comment, and I asked you specifically about YOUR comment. I can look up naysayers all day long on the net and read their opinions...not my interest.

I have yet to see you reveal a point of error in the KJV.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

If one part of the Bible is erroneous and cannot be trusted none of the Bible or is accurate.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,566
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If one part of the Bible is erroneous and cannot be trusted none of the Bible or is accurate.

I disagree.

Numerous men spoke, taught, to numerous crowds. Numerous Scribes took notations of what they were hearing. Numerous Recorders transcribed the notations in to Books and Scrolls. Numerous Books and Scrolls were copied and distributed. Even destroyed books were rewritten from memory.

So, eh, no, I do not in the least consider your claim or opinion on that matter.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I disagree.

Numerous men spoke, taught, to numerous crowds. Numerous Scribes took notations of what they were hearing. Numerous Recorders transcribed the notations in to Books and Scrolls. Numerous Books and Scrolls were copied and distributed. Even destroyed books were rewritten from memory.

So, eh, no, I do not in the least consider your claim or opinion on that matter.

Glory to God,
Taken

I repeat, by your thinking where was the Bible before 1611?

As for you accepting error because it is the King James version.

jaw[1].gif
 

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Perhaps it might be prudent to tell us what book you are reading, who its author is and when it was first published, etc. so that we too can read it and be able to draw our own conclusions.

Thanks
Ya think so? I doubt it. Why should that make any difference to people, most of whom who won't read it anyway? It was written in the last months of 2008, by the way. The thing that would rip most people is that it is not just opinion; dates and names are given for almost everything mentioned.
But, here is the ISBN-13number anyway: 978-0061436864.
 
Last edited:

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Received Text...
from who?
From God. The doctrine of the divine preservation of Scripture is of equal importance as the doctrine of the divine inspiration of Scripture. Had there been no preservation, we could not confidently say that we have God's Word in our hands.

While the enemies of the Received Text tried to set it aside dishonestly, they could not possible avoid the HISTORICAL FACT that the printed Received Text which supported the Reformation Bibles goes all the way back to the inspired autographs. Westcott & Hort, and Bishop Ellicott were the proponents of the Critical Text of W&H. However they had to admit that the Received Text was exactly that -- the Received Text, handed down through the mass of Greek manuscripts.

Thus we have Burgon's rebuttal of Bishop Ellicott through quoting his own words about the Received Text:

And,—What standard more reasonable and more convenient than the Text which, by the good Providence of GOD, was universally employed throughout Europe for the first 300 years after the invention of printing? being practically identical with the Text which (as you yourself admit) was in popular use at the end of three centuries from the date of the sacred autographs themselves: in other word, being more than 1500 years old...

Notwithstanding all that has gone before, you are constrained to confess in the very next page that:—“The manuscripts which Erasmus used differ, for the most part, only in small and insignificant details from the bulk of the cursive manuscripts. The general character of their text is the same. By this observation the pedigree of the Received Text is carried up beyond the individual manuscripts used by Erasmus.... That pedigree stretches back to a remote antiquity.

The first ancestor of the Received Text was at least contemporary with the oldest of our extant manuscripts, if not older than any one of them.”—pp. 11, 12... By your own showing therefore, the Textus Receptus is, “at least,” 1550 years old. Nay, we will have the fact over again, in words which you adopt from p. 92 of Westcott and Hort's Introduction [see above, p. 257], and clearly make your own:— “The fundamental text of late extant Greek MSS. generally is beyond all question identical with the dominant Antiochian or Græco-Syrian Text of the second half of the fourth century.”— p. 12. [Burgon, The Revision Revised, pp 400,404]
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,566
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I repeat, by your thinking where was the Bible before 1611?


Where Was the Bible?

I would say, it is of less importance of WHERE something called the Bible "WAS" before 1611, and more so focus on Where the Word of God WAS before mankind and when First man was created and following men were born, and WHAT the Word of God, is Gods desire to be conveyed throughout the world.


As for you accepting error because it is the King James version.

Well, no need for you to make false claims...."YOU call it an error, and it is your right to have such an opinion".

It doesn't make you RIGHT, and all others WRONG, to disagree with you.

Perhaps you are too wrapped up in your own opinions, you have failed to notice, it is the Lord one needs to be in agreement with, not you.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
From God. The doctrine of the divine preservation of Scripture is of equal importance as the doctrine of the divine inspiration of Scripture. Had there been no preservation, we could not confidently say that we have God's Word in our hands.

While the enemies of the Received Text tried to set it aside dishonestly, they could not possible avoid the HISTORICAL FACT that the printed Received Text which supported the Reformation Bibles goes all the way back to the inspired autographs. Westcott & Hort, and Bishop Ellicott were the proponents of the Critical Text of W&H. However they had to admit that the Received Text was exactly that -- the Received Text, handed down through the mass of Greek manuscripts.

Thus we have Burgon's rebuttal of Bishop Ellicott through quoting his own words about the Received Text:

And,—What standard more reasonable and more convenient than the Text which, by the good Providence of GOD, was universally employed throughout Europe for the first 300 years after the invention of printing? being practically identical with the Text which (as you yourself admit) was in popular use at the end of three centuries from the date of the sacred autographs themselves: in other word, being more than 1500 years old...

Notwithstanding all that has gone before, you are constrained to confess in the very next page that:—“The manuscripts which Erasmus used differ, for the most part, only in small and insignificant details from the bulk of the cursive manuscripts. The general character of their text is the same. By this observation the pedigree of the Received Text is carried up beyond the individual manuscripts used by Erasmus.... That pedigree stretches back to a remote antiquity.

The first ancestor of the Received Text was at least contemporary with the oldest of our extant manuscripts, if not older than any one of them.”—pp. 11, 12... By your own showing therefore, the Textus Receptus is, “at least,” 1550 years old. Nay, we will have the fact over again, in words which you adopt from p. 92 of Westcott and Hort's Introduction [see above, p. 257], and clearly make your own:— “The fundamental text of late extant Greek MSS. generally is beyond all question identical with the dominant Antiochian or Græco-Syrian Text of the second half of the fourth century.”— p. 12. [Burgon, The Revision Revised, pp 400,404]

From God? Prove it.

Popularity does not equal accuracy.

The heyday of Christian growth occurred before there was even a Bible. Back when there was a printed OT circulated with handwritten copies of the apostles letters.

I did not say the TR was at least 1550 years old. I said it's manuscripts were created in the 1500s, making them less than 600 years old.

Why do you keep misquoting me?

Believe what you wish but the facts deny your claims.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where Was the Bible?

I would say, it is of less importance of WHERE something called the Bible "WAS" before 1611, and more so focus on Where the Word of God WAS before mankind and when First man was created and following men were born, and WHAT the Word of God, is Gods desire to be conveyed throughout the world.




Well, no need for you to make false claims...."YOU call it an error, and it is your right to have such an opinion".

It doesn't make you RIGHT, and all others WRONG, to disagree with you.

Perhaps you are too wrapped up in your own opinions, you have failed to notice, it is the Lord one needs to be in agreement with, not you.

Glory to God,
Taken

Perhaps your too accepting of error that are clearly demonstrated.

Anyone that denies Easter doesn't belong in the Bible has blinded themselves.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why do you feel Easter doesn't belong in the Bible?

It is the adoption and adaption of the worship of Ishtar by Roman Catholicism.

The Bible says there are no holy days, sabbaths, etc. now.

Each of us is to choose our own days of rest, how we commemorate, with the exclusion of the Lord's table, etc..

Same with Christmas. Another pagan adoption by Catholicism.

Or wearing crosses. Crucifixes are even worse.
 

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is the adoption and adaption of the worship of Ishtar by Roman Catholicism.

The Bible says there are no holy days, sabbaths, etc. now.

Each of us is to choose our own days of rest, how we commemorate, with the exclusion of the Lord's table, etc..

Same with Christmas. Another pagan adoption by Catholicism.

Or wearing crosses. Crucifixes are even worse.
Oh...……… That stuff again. OK, thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,232
113
North America
I imagined so. It is very, very similar to the KJV. A few minor differences in the verses, and the Geneva has notes, but mostly the same. Thanks for the input!
Yes; both the KJV and the Geneva Bible were based on the previous Bishops' Bible, I believe.