19th Century Dispensationalism and Double Gospels

[veteran]

Then perhaps you can tell me what these scriptures I referenced mean.

Galatians 3:6-8
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Why did Paul use all these future tense words?

You can't post those Gal.3:6-7 verses and then totally disregard them in relation to the 8th verse. ALL those verses go together.

But what you're wanting to do is to separate that 8th verse from the 6-7th verses.

A simple analogy of what the difference is: If you were given a promise that was to come in the future, but it was not fulfilled in your lifetime, but you believed it and passed it down to your son's and daughters and it was fulfilled in their time, that's the difference. Abraham was given the Gospel Salvation Promise, but Christ Jesus was not born in his lifetime, but in a later generation of Abraham's seed. Abraham's Faith was that God would make His Promise to him come to pass like He said. It did. That's how Abraham believed by Faith and Paul shows it's the same Faith that we have believed, and why Paul says we are called the children of Abraham.

 

[RichardBurger]

You can't post those Gal.3:6-7 verses and then totally disregard them in relation to the 8th verse. ALL those verses go together.

But what you're wanting to do is to separate that 8th verse from the 6-7th verses.

A simple analogy of what the difference is: If you were given a promise that was to come in the future, but it was not fulfilled in your lifetime, but you believed it and passed it down to your son's and daughters and it was fulfilled in their time, that's the difference. Abraham was given the Gospel Salvation Promise, but Christ Jesus was not born in his lifetime, but in a later generation of Abraham's seed. Abraham's Faith was that God would make His Promise to him come to pass like He said. It did. That's how Abraham believed by Faith and Paul shows it's the same Faith that we have believed, and why Paul says we are called the children of Abraham.

I give up. I have not separated verse 6 and 7 from verse 8. I gave an ENTER key to put so that you could SEE IT. But I see you have used this to put up a smoke screen so you wouldn'e hav to answer to question I asked.

SPECIFICALLY, WHY ARE THE FUTURISTIC WORDS, "FORSEEING" - "WOULD" -- "BEFOREHAND" used in verse 8. ---- It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what I am asking. But I know you will not give an answer.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Veteran may not articulate these points to you Biblically, but what he is saying is Biblically true.

Gentile: 2) in a wider sense the name embraces all nations not Jews that made the language, customs, and learning of the Greeks their own; the primary reference is to a difference of religion and worship.

One of the primary reasons for the foreknowledge that God would justify the Gentiles by faith is because there were no Gentiles before God made Abraham's decendants a nation through Israel, which came after the initial promise. There was no people yet through whom the promise was going to be delivered and through whom all nations would be blessed by God. This required foreknowledge that only God had, but Abraham was given to trust God for what revelation and promise he had thus far received. And he believed in the promise, that is Christ, which is the same faith required of us to be saved, but only now we can understand the benefits of the promise in full.

Faith is what God requires for our salvation. Because our actions have eternal consequences, the consequence of faith in God is eternal life, and that life was gained despite any personal foreknowledge of how this salvation through Christ would come about. All Abraham had was God's word, and that "Word" who is and is to come, became flesh.

The words "preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand", meant that the faith required to trust the gospel message was given and ready as soon as the promise was declared/preached/made known, which is salvation by Christ Jesus. The same God who spared his son Isaac, and saved his cousin Lot, Abraham believed to be the One who would remain faithful in the same way to future generations as He promised. Abraham did know Him by trusting the promise for all nations, and not just Israel, and not just those after Jesus' death and resurrection, but all includes the nations before Jesus time as well, for many turned to God and his promises outside the Jewish faith far before Jesus' time, but this fact was hidden.

The promise for our righteousness by faith of the salvation to come can be seen as early as:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

No man is born without the faith necessary to be saved. It is the heart of a man which must be directed for his faith to be placed in God for the redemption from our state only God can offer.

It is not the Promise that has changed, but the revelation of the gospel by which we preach. If we don't trust one part of God, we don't trust any of God, and our revelation of who God in his vastness is, and of what he has promised in completeness, has only grown through history. But the faith deemed necessary by God for our salvation has never changed, as was Abraham's faith in the promise, who is our same promise received by faith, Our savior Christ Jesus.

 

[lawrance]

What's you're point?

What you've been espousing is known as Hyper-Dispensationalism. That's where the dual Gospel idea originated. The dual Gospel idea was NOT part of the original Dispensationalist ideas from 1800's Great Britain.

Early Dispensationalists only saw one Gospel, but two different stewardships or administrations of the one Gospel with the ministries of Paul and Peter.

Just as with what Paul showed Peter in Galatians, Gentile Christians should be able visit assemblies of Jewish believers on Jesus Christ and be welcomed as fellow-brethren, and visa versa. In the time of Acts, Christ's Church included both believing Israelites and Gentiles together as one body. That's how it really still should be today.

I agree with you totally.
I was looking to see if there was a connection some where, i remember something about that but could not remember to pin point it.
Thanks.

 

[veteran]

I give up. I have not separated verse 6 and 7 from verse 8. I gave an ENTER key to put so that you could SEE IT. But I see you have used this to put up a smoke screen so you wouldn'e hav to answer to question I asked.

SPECIFICALLY, WHY ARE THE FUTURISTIC WORDS, "FORSEEING" - "WOULD" -- "BEFOREHAND" used in verse 8. ---- It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what I am asking. But I know you will not give an answer.

I'm not willing to separate Paul's Message in Galatians 3 into pieces, if that's what you mean. Paul's Message there must be taken as a WHOLE, not torn into fragments with men's leaven added to it...


Gal 3:1-29
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore That ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth He it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Paul begins his Message with an idea that ought to be right up your alley, contrasting Faith against seeking to be saved by following the law. Some "false brethren" (Gal.2:4) were among those Gentile Galatians trying to get them to believe in Christ's Salvation by following the law.

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

All those 6-9 verses go together specifically speaking about Abraham in relation to Faith. Who's Faith? His AND ours. When God told Abraham in Gen.14-17 that through him ALL nations would be blessed, Paul is speaking of The Gospel Faith. That was one of the ways HOW The Gospel was also preached to Abraham. The Promise God gave Abraham then involved that very Faith eventually coming to the Gentiles also, i.e. to ALL nations being blessed through Abraham. That's what Paul's Message is here so far.


10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.'
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, 'The just shall live by faith.'
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Then Paul contrasts the idea of the law between the idea of Faith a bit more, showing how they are two separate things. We are not justified by following the law, but by Faith on Jesus Christ. But the man that is a doer of the law shall live in them. All it means is that we can still do the things in the law that is good, for like Paul said in Rom.7, the law is good and just. But we are to NEVER think that the law can offer Salvation. Only by Faith on The Father through Christ Jesus crucified is Salvation accounted.


13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:'
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Now Paul gives a bit more about Abraham's Faith in relation to The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ redeemed those who believe from the curse of the law, so that "the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ". That whose 'blessing' might come on the Gentiles? The blessing God gave to Abraham!! Per Genesis 14-17 that blessing is about the Promise by Faith which God first gave to Abraham, and the things associated with that Promise of Salvation.


15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

God specifically made the Promise that it would come through Abraham and his seed. Christ's lineage goes all the way back to the man Adam through Abraham per Luke 3. When we read about God's Promise to Abraham later with Isaac, then with Jacob, then to Israel, etc., it is about that same Promise of The Gospel by Faith first given to Abraham.


17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The Old Covenant didn't come until 430 years AFTER God had already given Abraham the Promise by Faith. God's Promise to Abraham by Faith was always FIRST, long before the law was given through Moses later. So the law cannot ever disannul that Promise by Faith which came first, nor ever make the Promise of none effect. It's simple.


18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

If the Promise by Faith God first given to Abraham was of inheritance by the law, then it would no longer be by promise.


19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law through Moses was added later BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS, up to the time when the seed would come unto whom Jesus Christ would manifest. It's simply about the time when Christ would die on the cross and through His Blood shed on the cross to offer those of Israel who believe Salvation. The "seed" is about Christ's seed which Paul just mentioned back at Gal.3:16 which would come through Abraham. That's who the Promise was given to through Abraham at the first per Genesis. The Promise then later went to the Gentiles (along with scattered Israelites of the ten tribes) after the majority of Jews at Jerusalem rejected Christ Jesus.


20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

But is the law against The Promise by Faith from God? NO. We have ALL been concluded under sin, so that Salvation could ONLY come by Faith on Jesus Christ, and ONLY for those who believe on Jesus Christ by Faith.


23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Before The Gospel was manifest by Christ's crucifixion, we were only kept under the law unto the Promise by Faith that would later be revealed (Greek apokalupto - made manifest, disclosed). In other words, the only thing involving The Gospel that was manifest prior to Christ's first coming was the Promise by Faith only.


24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

There's what the law was given for, to point towards Christ Jesus when He would come to manifest The Gospel Promise by His crucifixion, defeating death and the devil for us (Hebrews 2:14). We now await the glory of our redemption by Christ at His return. But again, does that mean the law is no more, and of no benefit? No.


26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(KJV)

Regardless of what nation or people one is born of, if they believe The Gospel Promise by Faith like Abraham's Faith, then they are counted as "Abraham's seed". The Promise was first to Abraham, and to his literal flesh seed, and also included the promises to Abraham God gave along with it. The Promise by Faith includes all the other promises from God that began with Abraham. THAT IS WHAT WE GENTILES ARE ALSO 'HEIRS' OF ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

This is why we cannot separate God's Promise by Faith first given through Abraham, nor His promises to Abraham's seed apart from Christ's Church. If we Gentiles in Christ Jesus are heirs of the Promise to Abraham, then we are heirs WITH Abraham. That right there is what Paul was teaching in that Galatians 3 chapter with Abraham.

Furthermore, this means Christ's Church INHERITED God's promises with Abraham, especially since The Gospel was refused by the majority of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi in Jerusalem, just as the majority of those STILL refuse The Gospel Promise today!

For those who understand that, this is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to separate God's concept of Israel apart from Christ's Church! Trying to do that would be like trying to separate Abraham from The Promise God first gave through him which he believed by Faith. If it were possible to do that, then it would mean Abraham would no longer be heir, and nor us with him. That's is the ONLY way believers on Christ could not be counted as children of Abraham. This is why those in Christ Jesus need to CLAIM the promises God gave to Abraham and his seed, and start actually believing what Paul said there that we now are inheritors with faithful Abraham.

 

[veteran]

It is not the Promise that has changed, but the revelation of the gospel by which we preach. If we don't trust one part of God, we don't trust any of God, and our revelation of who God in his vastness is, and of what he has promised in completeness, has only grown through history. But the faith deemed necessary by God for our salvation has never changed, as was Abraham's faith in the promise, who is our same promise received by faith, Our savior Christ Jesus.

That part in bold is a good way to say it.

It's easy for us now to go back in Bible history and understand on a deeper level what it meant with God giving the Promise by Faith first to Abraham, even 430 years before the law. But there actually is a whole lot... more to learn about it per Bible history.


Gen 15:5-6
5 And He brought him forth abroad, and said, "Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be."
6 And he believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness.
(KJV)

Gen 13:16
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
(KJV)

Apostle Paul quoted that about Abraham in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 when preaching The Gospel Promise by Faith to Gentiles. Would Abraham have at that time of Genesis understood that promise would also include children of ALL nations by Faith on Christ Jesus? Most likely Abraham understood it to mean just his flesh seed lineage, but there is a possibility that our Lord Jesus showed him that it would also include those of Faith from all peoples. I won't rule that possibility out.


Gen 28:1-4
1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, "Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
2 Arise, go to Padan-aram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.
3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;
4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.
(KJV)

Can one see how Isaac above (counted as the 'seed' of The Promise - Rom.9:7; Gal.4:28) gave his son Jacob that SAME Promise of a multitude of seed which God first gave to Abraham? This is why God is called The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob. We can TRACE The Promise by Faith God first gave to Abraham through that literal seed in the beginning, and FURTHER, all the way to the Gentiles that would also believe.

That is especially why I see God's Salvation Plan through His Son, i.e., The Gospel, beginning first through Abraham and progressing all the way down to our time. In a way, our times of that same Faith is like their times, in that we now await the hope of redemption at Christ's return. In 'their' days, they awaited the time when Christ Jesus would be revealed to place the Promise into effect. We today did not see Christ's crucifixion when the Promise was put in effect. yet we have believed. Likewise, I feel Abraham and an election among Israel prior to Christ's first coming believed the Gospel Promise first given to Abraham, awaited it to manifest, but simply didn't get to live in the times when it would come to pass.

I know some will argue that the Old Testament saints didn't know about The Gospel of Jesus Christ, but our Lord Jesus did say that Abraham rejoiced to see His day, and was glad (John 8:56). So I believe Abraham understood a LOT more about The Gospel than we give him credit.

Here's a bit of Scripture evidence for what I'm saying about the Old Testament saints, that they may have been given to know early on about The Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
(KJV)

Who is That Who comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgement upon all? Unmistakeably, that is about our Lord Jesus Christ's SECOND coming with His saints.

So how in the world could Enoch, the 7th from Adam, prophesy about Christ's SECOND coming with ten thousands of His saints unless God had shown him?

Enoch was born even before Noah! So could Noah have also been shown, since Enoch lived in the times of Noah also? And if Enoch knew about Christ's second coming with His saints, just who else among God's people in Old Testament Bible history might also have known? Clearly, Moses knew something, when God spoke through him about The "Prophet" God was to send per Deut.18:15, pointing to our Lord Jesus Christ as That Prophet.

If that understanding is kept in mind when we study Old Testament Bible history, a whole lot more about Christ's Salvation will be understood from back then. One would also be surprised how much more Apostle Paul's preaching of The Gospel comes to light, since he taught The Gospel a lot from the OT Books.

 

[RichardBurger]

I'm not willing to separate Paul's Message in Galatians 3 into pieces, if that's what you mean. Paul's Message there must be taken as a WHOLE, not torn into fragments with men's leaven added to it...


Gal 3:1-29
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore That ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth He it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Paul begins his Message with an idea that ought to be right up your alley, contrasting Faith against seeking to be saved by following the law. Some "false brethren" (Gal.2:4) were among those Gentile Galatians trying to get them to believe in Christ's Salvation by following the law.

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

All those 6-9 verses go together specifically speaking about Abraham in relation to Faith. Who's Faith? His AND ours. When God told Abraham in Gen.14-17 that through him ALL nations would be blessed, Paul is speaking of The Gospel Faith. That was one of the ways HOW The Gospel was also preached to Abraham. The Promise God gave Abraham then involved that very Faith eventually coming to the Gentiles also, i.e. to ALL nations being blessed through Abraham. That's what Paul's Message is here so far.


10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.'
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, 'The just shall live by faith.'
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Then Paul contrasts the idea of the law between the idea of Faith a bit more, showing how they are two separate things. We are not justified by following the law, but by Faith on Jesus Christ. But the man that is a doer of the law shall live in them. All it means is that we can still do the things in the law that is good, for like Paul said in Rom.7, the law is good and just. But we are to NEVER think that the law can offer Salvation. Only by Faith on The Father through Christ Jesus crucified is Salvation accounted.


13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:'
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Now Paul gives a bit more about Abraham's Faith in relation to The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ redeemed those who believe from the curse of the law, so that "the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ". That whose 'blessing' might come on the Gentiles? The blessing God gave to Abraham!! Per Genesis 14-17 that blessing is about the Promise by Faith which God first gave to Abraham, and the things associated with that Promise of Salvation.


15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

God specifically made the Promise that it would come through Abraham and his seed. Christ's lineage goes all the way back to the man Adam through Abraham per Luke 3. When we read about God's Promise to Abraham later with Isaac, then with Jacob, then to Israel, etc., it is about that same Promise of The Gospel by Faith first given to Abraham.


17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The Old Covenant didn't come until 430 years AFTER God had already given Abraham the Promise by Faith. God's Promise to Abraham by Faith was always FIRST, long before the law was given through Moses later. So the law cannot ever disannul that Promise by Faith which came first, nor ever make the Promise of none effect. It's simple.


18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

If the Promise by Faith God first given to Abraham was of inheritance by the law, then it would no longer be by promise.


19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law through Moses was added later BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS, up to the time when the seed would come unto whom Jesus Christ would manifest. It's simply about the time when Christ would die on the cross and through His Blood shed on the cross to offer those of Israel who believe Salvation. The "seed" is about Christ's seed which Paul just mentioned back at Gal.3:16 which would come through Abraham. That's who the Promise was given to through Abraham at the first per Genesis. The Promise then later went to the Gentiles (along with scattered Israelites of the ten tribes) after the majority of Jews at Jerusalem rejected Christ Jesus.


20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

But is the law against The Promise by Faith from God? NO. We have ALL been concluded under sin, so that Salvation could ONLY come by Faith on Jesus Christ, and ONLY for those who believe on Jesus Christ by Faith.


23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Before The Gospel was manifest by Christ's crucifixion, we were only kept under the law unto the Promise by Faith that would later be revealed (Greek apokalupto - made manifest, disclosed). In other words, the only thing involving The Gospel that was manifest prior to Christ's first coming was the Promise by Faith only.


24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

There's what the law was given for, to point towards Christ Jesus when He would come to manifest The Gospel Promise by His crucifixion, defeating death and the devil for us (Hebrews 2:14). We now await the glory of our redemption by Christ at His return. But again, does that mean the law is no more, and of no benefit? No.


26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(KJV)

Regardless of what nation or people one is born of, if they believe The Gospel Promise by Faith like Abraham's Faith, then they are counted as "Abraham's seed". The Promise was first to Abraham, and to his literal flesh seed, and also included the promises to Abraham God gave along with it. The Promise by Faith includes all the other promises from God that began with Abraham. THAT IS WHAT WE GENTILES ARE ALSO 'HEIRS' OF ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

This is why we cannot separate God's Promise by Faith first given through Abraham, nor His promises to Abraham's seed apart from Christ's Church. If we Gentiles in Christ Jesus are heirs of the Promise to Abraham, then we are heirs WITH Abraham. That right there is what Paul was teaching in that Galatians 3 chapter with Abraham.

Furthermore, this means Christ's Church INHERITED God's promises with Abraham, especially since The Gospel was refused by the majority of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi in Jerusalem, just as the majority of those STILL refuse The Gospel Promise today!

For those who understand that, this is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to separate God's concept of Israel apart from Christ's Church! Trying to do that would be like trying to separate Abraham from The Promise God first gave through him which he believed by Faith. If it were possible to do that, then it would mean Abraham would no longer be heir, and nor us with him. That's is the ONLY way believers on Christ could not be counted as children of Abraham. This is why those in Christ Jesus need to CLAIM the promises God gave to Abraham and his seed, and start actually believing what Paul said there that we now are inheritors with faithful Abraham.

My such a long sermon that says nothing more than you have been saying all along.

You said: "6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

You still fail to see that the words "foreseeing" "would" indicate that it would be true "IN THE FUTURE" and that future is this age of God's grace.

 

[veteran]

My such a long sermon that says nothing more than you have been saying all along.

You said: "6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

You still fail to see that the words "foreseeing" "would" indicate that it would be true "IN THE FUTURE" and that future is this age of God's grace.

But you still cannot see the forest for the trees. What does it mean with failing to recognize WHEN God gave that Promise to Abraham in Genesis, and instead ONLY wanting to recognize it with the time of Paul?

The mere fact that Paul links the Promise with Abraham's day is enough to show WHEN God first gave it.

 

[RichardBurger]

But you still cannot see the forest for the trees. What does it mean with failing to recognize WHEN God gave that Promise to Abraham in Genesis, and instead ONLY wanting to recognize it with the time of Paul?

The mere fact that Paul links the Promise with Abraham's day is enough to show WHEN God first gave it.

You can't seem to be able to tell the difference between a promise and the fulfilment of that promise.

But you still cannot see the forest for the trees. You have people being saved before the shed blood of Jesus and that is not true. The O.T. saints had their sins covered but we have them forgiven and there is a difference.

 

[veteran]

You can't seem to be able to tell the difference between a promise and the fulfilment of that promise.

But you still cannot see the forest for the trees. You have people being saved before the shed blood of Jesus and that is not true. The O.T. saints had their sins covered but we have them forgiven and there is a difference.

I do know the difference, because forgiveness of sins through Christ's Blood shed on the cross didn't begin until after Christ's crucifixion and with His telling His Apostles to go preach The Gospel to ALL nations. But the belief by Faith that The Father would send His Son to do that was FORETOLD centuries before through Moses and the Old Testament prophets, including David. That's why our Faith on Christ Jesus is compared with Abraham's Faith according to Apostle Paul. Paul makes sure you cannot leave out the Old Testament faithful in that, which is what your doctrine wants to do.

 

[RichardBurger]

I do know the difference, because forgiveness of sins through Christ's Blood shed on the cross didn't begin until after Christ's crucifixion and with His telling His Apostles to go preach The Gospel to ALL nations. But the belief by Faith that The Father would send His Son to do that was FORETOLD centuries before through Moses and the Old Testament prophets, including David. That's why our Faith on Christ Jesus is compared with Abraham's Faith according to Apostle Paul. Paul makes sure you cannot leave out the Old Testament faithful in that, which is what your doctrine wants to do.

Neither Jesus or the 12 Apostles taught the Gospel of God's grace. They are were under the Law of Moses. What they taught was that the promised Kingdom was at hand. The Apostles had about 40 years to get the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as their king but they couldn't do it so God gave Paul the gospel of grace.