9/30/17, Rev 12:5, Jubilee etc..

[bbyrd009]

I hate this world, and I dislike my life in it, but presumably, we are here for a purpose and should act like it. Please, no more Rapture guesses...we cannot know G-d's mind!

please, keep bringing the guesses, otherwise how am i to know who the dead are? I mean i certainly get you, ok, i even agree, but at the same time see that these are an important tool

 

[Heb 13:8]

He's not coming back until the wrath is to be poured out

Thank you Questor. I'd like to learn more, what scripture are you referring to, rapture after wrath? God Bless.

they may not be raised according to that understanding, but then who are these "dead" that you believe we are talking about, anyway? If the dead can bury the dead, how sure are you that you are even talking about the right "dead?"

Those that are a part of the body of Christ Col 1:18, like Paul, Peter etc.. anyone in the past who was born again and died.

1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

i mean you might notice that this author includes himself in this "we" of "the future," how do you make "rapture" fit for him? "17After that, we who are still alive and are left..." how can he possibly be one of those "we's?"

Because the author (Paul) lived 2000 years ago bbyrd. He already died. He will be caught up together with them (the dead in Christ). God Bless.

 

[bbyrd009]

Those that are a part of the body of Christ Col 1:18, like Paul, Peter etc.. anyone in the past who was born again and died.

1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

you seem to be missing the point that your past opinions about Scripture have gotten you into trouble, from which if i am not mistaken you made it a point to somehow retain your pride, and not be repentant. Not saying that i don't understand all that, ok, but you might certainly serve yourself better by addressing that imo, and abandoning this role of "teacher" that admittedly pretty much everyone seems so desperate to achieve.

Wouldn't it be better to admit that you do not know, and leave all the "knowing" for the paid shills for Jesus? I mean, at least they are getting paid for being wrong--what are you getting?

 

[bbyrd009]

Because the author (Paul) lived 2000 years ago bbyrd. He already died. He will be caught up together with them (the dead in Christ). God Bless.

well, that cannot be because he has already counted himself among the living, see. So now what you are doing is projecting out that he must have been writing to posterity (us), in order to make the tenses all fit right to your mind, rather than to understand what the passage is really saying. He specifically said "WE, WHO ARE ALIVE."

 

[Angelina]

Hi Angelina. Our responsibility is to warn the people, Ez 33:1-6, 1 Thess 4:13, 18. Be encouraged. - Heb 13:8

Not all believers are called to be watchmen. Our responsibility is to live out our Christianity as believers in Christ and to preach the gospel message that leads to salvation.

 

[Questor]

47,754 people will be raptured that day (and every day).

Really...how is that calculated, and where is it stated in Scripture?

 

[Questor]

Seriously?....*sigh*. So what's going to be the next rapture date when this doesn't occur? You believe yourself to be an eschatologist, you aren't doing a good job of it, neither are these others you speak of.

BY their claims, they are saying they have special revelation and understanding from G-d, and are acting as False Prophets when they turn out to be wrong. In the process, they bring belief in Yeshua into disrepute.

When did people not lose their reputations, at the least, for advocating false future events to others?

 

[Questor]

they may not be raised according to that understanding, but then who are these "dead" that you believe we are talking about, anyway? If the dead can bury the dead, how sure are you that you are even talking about the right "dead?"

Really...you didn't know the dead in this passage Yeshua referenced are the eternally dead...those who will not come after him, and follow him?

 

[Questor]

16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

i mean you might notice that this author includes himself in this "we" of "the future," how do you make "rapture" fit for him? "17After that, we who are still alive and are left..." how can he possibly be one of those "we's?"

We Believers...we Apostles...or even we who happen to be alive at his Yeshua's return? Was not Sha'ul speaking of the future, without knowing the date of his own demise? He had the specific information from Yeshua...it was not his opinion. The Parousia is the 'mystery' he was explaining...not foretelling the future for himself.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 (KJV)
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Heb 13:8]

and not be repentant.

Hi bbyrd. It's not a sin to love the Lord's appearing and study scripture.

He specifically said "WE, WHO ARE ALIVE."

Hi bbyrd. "We who are alive" is us in 2017, those that are born again Christians in 2017. "The dead in Christ" rising first are those who have "died in Christ". "In Christ" meaning that you've received the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Rom 9:1 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit—

Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Not all believers are called to be watchmen. Our responsibility is to live out our Christianity as believers in Christ and to preach the gospel message that leads to salvation.

I agree..

If you're not sure you have eternal life through Jesus Christ please consider...

John 3:3-7, John 3:16, John 14:6, Acts 4:12, Rom 6:23, Rom 10:9-10, 1 John 5:9-15.

- Heb 13:8

BY their claims, they are saying they have special revelation and understanding from G-d, and are acting as False Prophets when they turn out to be wrong.

Hi Questor. False prophets are those who haven't come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Really...how is that calculated, and where is it stated in Scripture?

Without doing the math all over again...it's something like 2/3s of percentage of people who presently claim to be Christian out of the current population of the world that dies every day.

Oh, yeah, scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:23
"But each one in his own order", meaning, each in his own time...meaning the end thereof.

 

[bbyrd009]

Really...you didn't know the dead in this passage Yeshua referenced are the eternally dead...those who will not come after him, and follow him?

so, those who do not believe in God at all will rise first? Am i getting you there?

 

[bbyrd009]

Was not Sha'ul speaking of the future, without knowing the date of his own demise?

surely that is how it is read, yes, but look at all the assumptions you have made based upon this assumption, gliding right over the fact that he counted himself among the "we, who are alive," yet we assume he is among the dead now, right?

and understand that i do not know for a fact that that is necessarily wrong, ok, a perfectly logical argument can be made that "we" is acceptable there because Paul was still alive then, say, but i would like to point out how self-centered such an interpretation is. Give me an explanation for why he would count himself among the living if he were writing for posterity, when saying "those who are still living" would have been the correct tense for that, and then maybe we can see, but my position right now is that a spiritual principle is being related, and we are reading that with carnal eyes because that is what we want to read there.

because if your conclusion is that Paul was aware that he was writing a New Testament at the time, or even that God inspired these writings for posterity, then imo "we" must consider the writings to be perfect, right, ergo Paul counted himself among the living for a reason, and the wording has meaning other than "Paul just happened to die after he wrote that, and he and God slipped up there."

 

[bbyrd009]

The Parousia is the 'mystery' he was explaining...not foretelling the future for himself.

in fact, if he was foretelling his future, "we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," he either failed miserably or was just lying, right? Isn't the premise here that Paul did not live to see 'the coming of the Lord?'

and if he was just explaining The Mystery for all of us in the future, as inspired by God, then either God needs a semantics lesson or we got scribed along the way--a distinct possibility i hadn't considered, btw. Could that "we" be translated differently iow. Dunno, but my limited understanding of Greek tenses tells me that "we" is in the original.

so i ask you to consider that Paul told the truth, and the "we" is not just an accident made in writing to posterity, otherwise "those who are alive" would be the only acceptable way to write it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi bbyrd. It's not a sin to love the Lord's appearing and study scripture.

i agree, but it may be a sin to foretell the future, and fear-monger about tomorrow, and refuse to change your mind, or refuse to be contrite when you have wronged people.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi bbyrd. "We who are alive" is us in 2017, those that are born again Christians in 2017.

there you go, Heb agrees with you, how you likin your theory now? With apologies to Heb, but maybe we can do double-duty here for a minute.

...

 

[Helen]

so, those who do not believe will rise first? Am i getting you there?

I used to think about all these things too..when I was as young as you? ( 55 right?)
You will find as the days go by you will change your thinking as easily as changing socks.
The trouble is, 'everyone' is willing to tell you "just how it all will be" ..everyone has their own ideas about probably (genuinely) believes that they "have all the wise answers".
Of a truth...if we just get on living the very simple life of faith with our Loving Father...when the time comes ( regardless of all the endless 'dating' of when.. YAWN )..God will not somehow overlook us...I am confident that He sees us..
..so whether we go first , last, in between, with a rapture pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib... or whatever...if His eye is on the sparrow....we take no thought for tomorrow...But we DO "seek first the Kingdom of God..". And that is the only place where we can 'lay up treasure'.

All this other stuff is like a dog chasing their tails....grand predictions on what is what and when is when...yet all it is ...is just another opinion. It makes my brain tired.
Have faith in God. He Wins.

 

[Truth]

New rapture watch date: 9/30/17
From other watchmen on the wall, eschatologists (including me)

(1.) Childbirth - Rom 8:22-23, (Rev 12:1-5 fulfilled in the heavens on 9/23/17)
(2.) 9/30/17 - Day of Atonement / Last Trump / Lev 25:10, Acts 2:27, Rom 8:11, 21, 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:16-17, Rev 4:1
(3.) 2017 - Jubilee Year / Last Trump / Lev 25:9-10
(4.) 2017 - Matt 24:32-34 / We are the generation to witness the second coming of Christ
(5.) 1260, 1290, 1335 days - We are inside the time line right now, the ark of repentance or "10 days of awe"
(6.) 1260, 1290, 1335 day time line remains the same - youtube / watch?v=yAfnGx8HfPA

(1.) Jesus Christ himself (wind/trumpet) is our Jubilee (Jubilee translated yobel: a ram, ram's horn (a wind instrument)
(2.) Hebrew - Room translated cheder: a chamber, room (Isa 26:20)
(3.) Greek - Room translated moné: lodging, dwelling-place, room, abode, mansion (John 14:2)
(4.) Chamber room wedding analogy - End Times | Rapture & Jewish Wedding
(5.) Hebrew - Wind translated ruach: breath, wind, spirit (Isa 26:18 Childbirth/Wind represents Holy Spirit inside believers)
(6.) Greek - Wind translated pneuma: breath, wind, spirit (John 3:8 wind/spirit both pneuma), (John 4:24)

(A.) 1897, 1917, 1947, 1967, 2017 are all important Israel dates and Jubilee's 1897 + 120 = 2017 Gen 6:3

(B.) Side Note: 1 Jubilee = 50 years
(1.) From Adam to Noah (Flood) 40 x 50 or 40 Jubilee cycles = 2000 years (Seed)
(2.) Abraham to Christ (Cross) 40 x 50 or 40 Jubilee cycles = 2000 years (Young Plant)
(3.) Christ to now 40 x 50 or 40 Jubilee cycles = 2000 years (Harvest)
(4.) 40 x 3 = 120 Jubilees -- 2000 x 3 = 6000 years -- Gen 6:3

(1.) Rapture, the Day of the Lord and the 70th week of Daniel all point to a woman in labor Isa 13:6-8, Isa 26:17-21, Isa 66:7-9, Jer 30:6-7, Jer 49:24, (Micah 5:2-4 / Verse 2 Time of Jesus / Verse 3 Church Age / Verse 4 Millennium), 1 Thess 5:1-3

(2.) The Rev 12:1-5 sign also points to rapture, the Day of the Lord and the 70th week of Daniel (Rev 12:1-5 woman in labor giving birth)

(3.) Scripture for circumcision eight days after birth Gen 17:9-14, Lev 12:1-8, (Luke 2:21-35 circumcision of Jesus/figurative for head and body/Jesus is the head and the church is the body Col 1:18), and 8/21/17 total solar eclipse to 9/30/17 Day of Atonement is 40 days to repent before the Day of the Lord and the 70th week of Daniel begins (Gen 7:10 9/23/17 to 9/30/17), Lev 25:9, Jonah 3:3-5

Spiritual Significance: In Jeremiah 9:25 and Deuteronomy 30:6 we find the spiritual significance of circumcision. A prophet like Jeremiah was not likely to attach much importance to an external act like circumcision. He bluntly tells his countrymen that they are no better than Egyptians, Edomites, Moabites and Ammonites. They are uncircumcised in heart. Paul uses the term concision for this outward circumcision unaccompanied by any spiritual change (Philippians 3:2). The question of circumcision occasioned a protracted strife among the early Christians. Judaizing Christians argued for the necessity of circumcision. It was a reminiscence of the unrelenting particularism which had sprung up during the prolonged oppression of the Greek and Roman period. According to their view salvation was of the Jews and for the Jews. It was necessary to become a Jew in order to become a Christian. Paul consented to circumcision in the case of Timothy "because of the Jews" (Acts 16:3). But he saw that a principle was at stake and in most of his epistles he points out the sheer futility of the contention of the Judaizers. (See commentaries on Romans and Galatians.)

Figurative Uses: In a few suggestive passages we find a figurative application of the term. For three years after the settlement in Canaan the "fruit of the land" was to be considered as "uncircumcised" (Leviticus 19:23), i.e. it was the property of the Baalim, the gods of Palestine The fruit of the fourth year belonged to Yahweh. Moses with characteristic humility describes himself as a man of "uncircumcised lips" (Exodus 6:30). Jeremiah charges his contemporaries with having their ear uncircumcised (Jeremiah 6:10) and their heart (Jeremiah 9:26). "An uncircumcised heart" is one which is, as it were, closed in, and so impervious to good influences and good impressions, just as an uncircumcised ear (Jeremiah 6:10) is an ear which, from the same cause, hears imperfectly; and uncircumcised lips (compare Exodus 6:12,30) are lips which open and speak with difficulty (Driver on Deuteronomy 10:16)... Circumcision Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

TRUMPETS

Lev 25:9 Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land.

Ez 33:1-6 The word of the Lord came to me: 2“Son of man, speak to your people and say to them: ‘When I bring the sword against a land, and the people of the land choose one of their men and make him their watchman, 3and he sees the sword coming against the land and blows the trumpet to warn the people,

Joel 2:1 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand

Zeph 1:14-16 The great day of the Lord is near— near and coming quickly. The cry on the day of the Lord is bitter; the Mighty Warrior shouts his battle cry. 15That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness— 16a day of trumpet and battle cry against the fortified cities and against the corner towers.

1 Cor 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1 Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

If you're not sure you have eternal life through Jesus Christ please consider...

John 3:3-7, John 3:16, John 14:6, Acts 4:12, Rom 6:23, Rom 10:9-10, 1 John 5:9-15.

- Heb 13:8

I just have a Question! Do you have an understanding of the Biblical Feasts?

 

[bbyrd009]

BY their claims, they are saying they have special revelation and understanding from G-d, and are acting as False Prophets when they turn out to be wrong. In the process, they bring belief in Yeshua into disrepute.

When did people not lose their reputations, at the least, for advocating false future events to others?

ya, now they get promoted lol

 

[Heb 13:8]

so, those who do not believe in God at all will rise first? Am i getting you there?

"In Christ" are those who believed.

i agree, but it may be a sin to foretell the future, and fear-monger about tomorrow, and refuse to change your mind, or refuse to be contrite when you have wronged people.

A rapture watch is not foretelling the future, a rapture knowing is. In regards to fear mongering, most people will be asleep when the rapture hits. Would you rather a watchman stay silent while destruction comes upon you? If you want I can be silent, sure. 1 Thess 5:3

I just have a Question! Do you have an understanding of the Biblical Feasts?

I do.