A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

[Wrangler]

If you cannot say that Jesus is the Lord in light of this fact, you do not have the Holy Ghost.

And, I'm sorry to say, that is the bottom line.

I've said it repeatedly. Jesus is my lord but not the LORD God.

 

[101G]

Jhn 8:24, I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

And He was obviously referencing back to Exodus 3:14 in order to make a claim; for that scripture was well-known by all the Jewish people when Jesus spoke those words.

ON point there, see many people say, "Jesus never said that he is God", well he just did, right there in the verse. it also go straight back to Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I." the Lord Jesus "Spoke" this in many, many verses also.

when people have eyes to see, and ears to hear then they will know,

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Wrangler]

Jhn 8:24, I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

And He was obviously referencing back to Exodus 3:14 in order to make a claim; for that scripture was well-known by all the Jewish people when Jesus spoke those words.

Yet, the Jews did not ever take it as trinitarians do. I've stated repeatedly that "I am" is NOT a name of God nor a claim of deity.

 

[101G]

Isaiah 35:4

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Wrangler]

Isaiah 35:4

Nice figurative implication you are making. See posts in other thread about angels in Genesis and Sodom & Gomorra.

 

[101G]

Nice figurative implication you are making. See posts in other thread about angels in Genesis and Sodom & Gomorra.

no need, the answer are in the next verses, Isaiah 35:5 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped."
Isaiah 35:6 "Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert."
Isaiah 35:7 "And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes."
Isaiah 35:8 "And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein."

yes, Jesus is God, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
and the definite article is used here of God.
any reproof here?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

Yet, the Jews did not ever take it as trinitarians do. I've stated repeatedly that "I am" is NOT a name of God nor a claim of deity.

The Jews were predestinated to reject Christianity until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

When that event occurs, many Jews will begin believing the reality of the gospel which includes the doctrine of the Trinity.

Again, the Jews historically have rejected the faith of Christianity.

Therefore, it is no surprise that they would reject the historical tenet of the Christian faith known as the doctrine of the Trinity.

Also, the scribes and Pharisees understood that in John 8:58, Jesus was making a claim to Deity; for they picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy (John 8:59), and because "thou, being a man, makest thyself God." (John 10:31-33).

Every strike of the sword will do damage to your false doctrine of the denial of Christ's Deity (Hebrews 4:12, Ephesians 6:17, Ezekiel 21:14).

 

[101G]

The Jews were predestinated to reject Christianity until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

When that event occurs, many Jews will begin believing the reality of the gospel which includes the doctrine of the Trinity.

Again, the Jews historically have rejected the faith of Christianity.

Therefore, it is no surprise that they would reject the historical tenet of the Christian faith known as the doctrine of the Trinity.

on point, what the JEWS was looking for was a human saviour as was with all those human saviours, in the past.

Here is the misunderstanding, and errors I see in the unitarian belife. those deliverance, or salvation was physical salvation from a physical oppression, and, or, bondage. This also was the great misconception of the Jews in our Lord’s day, (but not all of them). they was expecting physical deliverance from Rome oppression, instead of a spiritual deliverance from their own sins. then, as today, the misconception is in the same error. some of the Jews was always looking for physical deliverance when the root cause of their physical bondage, or oppression was a spiritual condition called sin. and this circle of people sinning, and God putting them in bondage continue until God put an end to sin. so the answer or the solution was to delivered them spiritually so that they would not be physically bound, or oppressed anymore. For when the Son make free you, you’re free indeed. Notice this being set free, is not the same as being made free. simply put, if God deliver you spiritually, its once and for all, you want be physically bound, or oppressed anymore. you will never have to be again be delivered physically anymore. Because spiritual bondage causes physical bondage, (and because his seed remain in us we are FREE and not in the bondage of sin). If one would just look at the book of Judges. every time the children of Israel disobeyed, spiritually, meaning they sinned against God. God allowed other nations to oppress them, or put them in bondage. and when they cried out, God would raise up “a” human to deliver, or save them from their physical bondage, and oppressor. when Jesus, our Lord, came they was looking for physical deliverance from their physical oppressor as before. they was looking for the same old cycle, and routine. they sin, and God would put them in bondage. they cry out, he would send a deliverer. that’s why the law was change, and why he put an end to sin, at the cross. but this time God himself came in the likeness of a human saviour, and delivered them Spiritually, putting an end to sin. knowing this, can a human man fight against a spiritual enemy to deliver a people?, the answer is a resounding NO. only a human can fight against another human to overcome another human. but one need the POWER, the Spirit of God, God himself to fight, or overcome another spirit. so that’s the FAILURE of the unitarian doctrine, or what they believe. you can’t fight a spirit with human flesh. Satan is an spirit,

Hebrews 1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire”.

That like coming to a gunfight with a knife. you will lose every time. one need the most all powerful Spirit to overcome a spirit that have power. yes Satan have, (deception), or had power. listen to our Lord Jesus. Matthew 12:24 "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house”. so before one can deliver, one must be able to deliver. one must have the POWER to bind the strongman. and it was clear that no “human man”, was found worthy to deliver the people from their sin. supportive scripture, Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him”. so God himself came. this is also supported in Chapter 5 of Revelation. "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?. 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon”. and John wept, because no human saviour was found worthy. why was this?. because it would call for a sacrifice of ones life, which no man could continue after death, because of his own sin. salvation required a sinless sacrifice. and this life that was required was a giving of ones life, “blood”, (which is the life of the flesh). scripture, Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul”. now our Lord’s Blood. Matthew 26:26 "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins”. that word remission, is the Greek word, G859 ἄφεσις aphesis (af'-es-is) n. it means, freedom, pardon, deliverance, forgiveness, liberty. WAIT A MINUTE, liberty?, yes, scripture, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty”. LIBERTY is in the Spirit, and not in a man. so the notion of our Lord Jesus as being a mere human man is nonsense. Jesus our God came in the LIKNESS of human flesh to deliver us, Spiritually. he, God took part, and was not a partaker of human nature. TOOK PART IS NOT THE SAME AS PARTAKE. who is the real man, (the Last Adam), and why , and how he came. Will the REAL SAVIOUR STAND UP. Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am “he”: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour”. my God Jesus just told us who he is. notice two things here, as we have already stated, the small case “s” in saviour, and the “a” as the only saviour. “and beside me there is no saviour”. that means only one saviour. here, our Lord and God is referring to himself in flesh and blood as in the likeness of a human man, “diversified” in spirit. Isaiah 60:16 "Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob”. Here God is telling us that it will be him that saves.

hence the scripture, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."
Yes God came and save us, and that God is Jesus, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
O God, and God is used with the definite article without any DOUBT Jesus is God.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Wrangler]

"I am" is not a claim of divinity. The vid explained it in detail. It is a trinitarian myth.

The reason Christian's deny Jesus is God in Flesh has been expounded on in great detail. I am a unitarian and started a thread, The Case Against Trinitarianism. The trinity is not in the Bible. Sad that you cannot admit that simple fact.

Trinitarianism is not logical. It is absurd that Jesus fathered himself, commended his soul into his own hands, prayed to himself, asked himself to pass the bitter cup, was going to himself after being resurrected from the dead, knows more than himself and is greater than himself. Who sits at the right hand of God? No one can sit at their own right hand.

 

[justbyfaith]

The doctrine of the Trinity is in the Bible.

True Trinity. (posts #1-#6)

Sad that you cannot admit that fact, @Wrangler.

Very sad.

Because it means that you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

 

[Wrangler]

The trinity is NOT in the Bible. "I am" is not a claim of divinity. Desperate reach - and sad attempt at intimidation.


This is the beginning of the good news of Jesus, the Anointed One, the Liberating King, the Son of God.
Mark 1:1

 

[justbyfaith]

The trinity is NOT in the Bible. "I am" is not a claim of divinity. Desperate reach - and sad attempt at intimidation.


This is the beginning of the good news of Jesus, the Anointed One, the Liberating King, the Son of God.
Mark 1:1

The Son shall have the name of "The everlasting Father" according to Isaiah 9:6...

He is the same Spirit as the Father, the distinction being that the Son exists in the flesh.

The Trinity IS in the Bible.

Maybe you haven't read your Bible thoroughly enough; or maybe the following is true of you,

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

so that you cannot see this teaching in your Bible; even though it is right there in front of you.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, it was not my intention to be intimidating; but I feel that it is also important to explain to you the danger that you are in as long as you continue to deny this faithful doctrine in holy scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

The Son shall have the name of "The everlasting Father" according to Isaiah 9:6...

Did you not read the link that debunked the trinitarian claim that Isaiah 9:6 is a prophecy of Jesus?

The other point that I've made repeatedly is how the man-is-God thesis is so strong, you do not even realize that Isaiah 9:6 does not even mention the HS and therefore, cannot be used to support trinitarian doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

The Trinity IS in the Bible.

If the trinity were in the Bible, you would have been able to present the verse that states the trinitarian doctrine.

In lieu of that, you present species verses that only by imposing trinitarian doctrine onto it does it seem to support your position but falls under the slightest scrutiny. For instance verses are written by Jews who reject trinitarian doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

Maybe you haven't read your Bible thoroughly enough; or maybe the following is true of you

I've thoroughly read the Bible. The trinity is not in the Bible. Supposing the Gospel = trinitarian doctrine is ridiculous. You seem to ignore the fact that trinitarian doctrine came about 4 centuries after Jesus walked the Earth.

 

[Wrangler]

What verses appear to support some of the Trinity?

The verses trinitarians distort by supposing it must support trinitarians, such as John 1:1. (But after learning more, one realizes these verses do not support trinitarianism)

There is more than one way to say something.

Right. Saying something 'differently' is not the same as not saying ANYTHING LIKE There is one God, who is trinitarian in nature - consisting of the F, S & HS - and if you do not believe this you cannot be saved.

However, the big reveal of Jesus is found in John 4:26, which is that he is the Messiah, not God incarnate.

 

[justbyfaith]

you do not even realize that Isaiah 9:6 does not even mention the HS

Sure it does. The Holy Spirit is "the Wonderful Counsellor".

If the trinity were in the Bible, you would have been able to present the verse that states the trinitarian doctrine.

You didn't previously ask me to. I can present two that specifically state the Trinity in and of themselves as singular verses: Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 (kjv).

I've thoroughly read the Bible. The trinity is not in the Bible.

You have not seen it in the Bible because the following is true of you.

Act 28:26, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

You seem to ignore the fact that trinitarian doctrine came about 4 centuries after Jesus walked the Earth.

Trinitarian doctrine is established in the heavenlies and has been the reality throughout eternity. It simply was not revealed until the 4th century.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5, Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

 

[Wrangler]

You didn't previously ask me to. I can present two that specifically state the Trinity in and of themselves as singular verses: Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 (kjv).

OMG! You are getting increasingly desperate. Click here to understand how Matthew 28:19 is likely a corruption. Beyond that, if you read the text you will discover it does not even speak of the nature of God (let alone, if you do not believe this nature of God, you cannot be saved). If Jesus said to baptize people in the name of Moe, Larry and Curly, it does not mean these 3 are God.

Regarding 1 John 5:7, most people realize this is one KJV got wrong. (And I think you know this since you specified KJV.) Most translations recognize this verse also has nothing to do with the trinity.

7 So there are three testifying witnesses: 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood. All three are in total agreement.
1 John 5:7-8 (Voice)

Trinitarian doctrine is established in the heavenlies and has been the reality throughout eternity. It simply was not revealed until the 4th century.

You got to be kidding me. The trinity is 4th century man-made doctrine. I wonder what else you imagine might qualify as violating the 1C & 2C other than this doctrine? Too bad you cannot admit that this being 4th century man-made doctrine is why some Christians do not believe Jesus is God in the flesh.

And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition.
Mark 7:13 (NLT)

 

[justbyfaith]

OMG! You are getting increasingly desperate.

No desperation here.

Click here to understand how Matthew 28:19 is likely a corruption.

There is no corruption in the word of God; and to say that there is, is one of satan's biggest lies.

If Jesus said to baptize people in the name of Moe, Larry and Curly, it does not mean these 3 are God.

No; obviously there is one God (James 2:19). And He is the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (John 4:24, Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9), and the Holy Ghost (Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

The Father descended to take on an added nature of human flesh.

And, because He dwells in eternity; and it is the nature of those who dwell in eternity that they are there eternally: He did not vacate eternity/heaven when He descended to become a Man.

So, you have the Father in heaven and the Son on earth; in whom is the Spirit of the Father (John 14:7-11), who is a Spirit (John 4:23-24).

Now, Jesus released His Spirit (the Father) into eternity in Luke 23:46. And His Spirit, being the Spirit of the Father and the Son, is entitled Holy Ghost. Nothing evil can be said about Him and the person have forgiveness; because, while the Father from His perspective never lived a human life, the Holy Ghost has lived a human life and therefore He understand humanity. And after being the Spirit dwelling in the Man who died upon the Cross, if you speak against Him, He has already endured enough and does not have to endure any more from you. This is why blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin.

Regarding 1 John 5:7, most people realize this is one KJV got wrong. (And I think you know this since you specified KJV.) Most translations recognize this verse also has nothing to do with the trinity.

I am of the kjv-superior understanding.

I believe that when people go to other translations, they are doing what was prophesied in 2 Timothy 4:3 and are heaping to themselves teachers in the translators of other Bibles, to tell them what their itching ears want to hear. And while you may not believe this, I believe that it would be expedient for you to consider it as a possibility.

7 So there are three testifying witnesses: 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood. All three are in total agreement.
1 John 5:7-8 (Voice)

Your version butchers 1 John 5:7; so that it says practically nothing at all on its own.

1Jo 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8, And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Furthermore, it deletes the first part of 1 John 5:8 and places it as 1 John 5:7 so that 1 John 5:7 can be a verse.

1 John 5:7 was also obviously a verse in the Bible as a predecessor to Bibles that did not include it; for they did not make the decision to simply make 1 John 5:8 to be 1 John 5:7, 1 John 5:9 to be 1 John 5:8, and so forth.

In other words, 1 John 5:7 was not added to the kjv but was subtracted from other Bibles.