A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[Kermos]

@Aunty Jane @Keiw @Butch5 @keithr

The Watchtower Society personnel express confusion about 1 Corinthians 15:24-28, that King Jesus Christ's reign in the Kingdom of God has an end, above the proclamation of apostles, prophets, angels, heavenly voices, and the Word of God.

Here are some specific scriptural instances that exhibits the error:

• The angel Gabriel declares that Jesus Christ reigns without end in the Kingdom of God "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end." (Luke 1:32-33).
• God declares the Son's throne endures forever with "But of the Son, He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.'" (Hebrews 1:8)
• Heavenly voices declare that Christ Reigns in the Kingdom of God forever and ever with "Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.'" (Revelation 11:15)
• Daniel declares that Christ's Dominion is an everlasting Dominion with "And to Him was given dominion, glory and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away, and His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed." (Daniel 7:14)
• Peter declares the eternal Kingdom of God of Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with "for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." (2 Peter 1:11)
• Paul wrote "He is excepted" (1 Corinthians 15:27) referring to Jesus, and Paul wrote "He is excepted" inside the 1 Cor 15:24-28 passage. Here is the full verse, "For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, 'All things are put in subjection,' it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him" (1 Corinthians 15:27).
  
  Somehow, according to Paul, the Son is in subjection (1 Corinthians 15:28) while at the same time the Son is NOT in subjection because the Son is excepted (1 Corinthians 15:27), and this is because Jesus is God.
  
  Paul uses only the word "Son" to identify Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28, not specifically "Son of Man" nor "Son of God"; nonetheless, Paul does use masculine pronouns to identify Jesus in the passage.
  
  For coherency among all these scripture such as Luke 1:32-33 and 1 Corinthians 15:24-28, Paul explains the Son of Man will stop reigning, but the Son of God will continue reigning.
  
  Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God.
  
  We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The Truth (John 14:6) according to the Word of God is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Amen! "I AM = Eternally Existing One!" Confirming Scripture:

"Micah_5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among
the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto Me That
Is To Be Ruler in Israel; Whose Goings Forth have been from of old, from
Everlasting."
+
500 Confirming Scriptures "JESUS Is Almighty God!"

Grace And Peace...

 

[PinSeeker]

Prov 8:22--produced me as the beginning of his way( creation)...

Not "produced me," but rather "possessed me at the beginning of His work, the first of His acts of old." To translate קָנָה (qānâ) as "produced me" is a horrible mistranslation, and this is just one of the great many examples of the intentional attempts to re-engineer God's inerrant and infallible word to fit the heretical narrative of the Watchtower organization. Yes, it's pointing to Jesus, and about Him in that sense, but not woodenly, as Jehovah's Witnesses want to suppose.

One should get as far away from the New World Translation as possible.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The context of "all creation" in Colossians 1:15 is the Assembly of God - "He is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15). In context, the "Firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 refers to the Firstborn of all the born by the Spirit of God persons. The context is not the creation around the time of Adam or prior to Adam as verse 15 is approached in Colossians 1. The context up until verse 15 of Colossians 1 is the creation and increasing of the citizenry of the Kingdom of God, even of the building up of the Kingdom of God.

And again, Paul's context is Christ Jesus's preeminence over all creation, which slams the door on the idea that Jesus is at part of God's creation. Even with the mangling of John 1 in the NWT, it still affirms that Jesus was not created, but that He was with God in the beginning, and that all things came into existence through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into existence, the clear result being that the NWT contradicts itself in multiple places, which is just astounding.

Having said that, I realize full that I'm preaching to the choir, here, Kermos, but the stark contrast between Jesus and us that Paul is very clear on there that Christ Jesus is the image of the invisible God...

"He is the image of the invisible God..." (Colossians 1:15)​

...where we creatures are merely created in the image of God:

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)​

And having fallen from this state (in Adam, Genesis 3), those of us who are in Christ (born again of the Holy Spirit, John 3) we are being conformed to the image of Christ (Romans 8) ~ we will eventually be just like Him, but we will never be Him of course, which is a distinction that is (should be, anyway) self-evident ~ and there is no more condemnation for us.

Isn't the Gospel of Christ a beautiful and amazing thing? Good news indeed.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[keithr]

Amen! "I AM = Eternally Existing One!" Confirming Scripture:

"Micah_5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among
the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto Me That
Is To Be Ruler in Israel; Whose Goings Forth have been from of old, from
Everlasting."

The WEB translates it as:

(2) But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, being small among the clans of Judah, out of you one will come out to me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings out are from of old, from ancient times.​

The Cambridge Bible Notes says:

The passage will then become a statement either of the pre-existence of the Messiah in the eternal purposes of God (comp. Isaiah 22:11; Isaiah 37:26); or, which is more obvious and perfectly suitable to the context, of his descent from the ancient Davidic family—comp. Amos 9:11, where ‘the days of old’ evidently refer to the reign of David. (David was already three centuries behind Micah.) In the latter case, we ought to render the passage before us, Whose origin hath been from aforetime, from the days of old. There is, in fact, properly speaking, no word in Hebrew exactly answering to ‘everlasting.’ See also Micah 7:14; Micah 7:20, where Auth. Vers. rightly has, ‘the days of old.’​

So no, it doesn't confirm that Jesus is Almighty God. In fact verse 4 makes it obvoius that the one that "comes forth unto" God is not God - it says:

(4) He shall stand, and shall shepherd in the strength of Yahweh, in the majesty of the name of Yahweh his God: and they will live, for then he will be great to the ends of the earth.​

 

[Butch5]

Jesus does not stop at Exodus with His words recorded in John 8:58, but He goes back to Genesis by mentioning Abraham, and He goes back eternally because He establishes His existence as perpetual prior to Abraham.

Oh, so you claim there are two gods based upon that which you wrote in your quoted post.

You disagree with the Word of God because the Word of God states there is One True God (Isaiah 45:5).

That's funny. You saying some disagrees with the word of God. You disagree with Jesus Himself. He said to the Father that He was the only Ture God. You disagree with that.

 

[Butch5]

You cannot identify a time prior to Jesus saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) in which Jesus did not exist, nor can anyone. According to the Christ, Jesus existed in eternity past.

Actually, I can. But, even if I couldn't that doesn't prove He did exist. You're making an assumption.

 

[Butch5]

@Aunty Jane @Keiw @Butch5 @keithr

Confusion about Jesus mentioned near the word "creation" in Revelation 3:14 and Colossians 1:15 abounds, but this compilation clarifies the matter scripturally and Spiritually. First, here are the passages.

"To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this" (Revelation 3:14).

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15),

Here are some specific scriptural instances that prove your error:

• Paul explained the firstborn in relation to the born of God persons (John 3:3-8) in this passage related to Colossians 1:15 "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers" (Romans 8:29).
• Jesus is the beginning of creation (Revelation 3:14) and the firstborn of creation in that:
  • "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3), SO THE SON OF GOD, JESUS, BEGINS THE CREATION AND COMPLETES THE CREATION (REVELATION 3:14).
  • "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15), SO THE SON OF MAN, JESUS, IS THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL THE BORN OF GOD PERSONS (JOHN 3:3-8).
  Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God.
  • In Revelation 3:14 we find Christ referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God, Almight Creator of Heaven and Earth.
  • Since Jesus can say one sentence with multiple meanings; therefore, in Revelation 3:14, also, we find Christ referring to Himself in His capacity of the Son of Man - He is the Beginning of the resurrection among many brothers born of God for He says to the self same assembly "He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne" (Revelation 3:21). Jesus is the leader among the Assembly of God (God's Ecclesia).
  • In Colossians 1:15 we find Paul referring to Christ in His capacity of the Son of Man - He is the firstborn after the crucifixion among many brothers born of God. Jesus is the leader among the Assembly of God (God's Ecclesia).
• Colossians 1:15 does not state that the Son of God, Jesus Christ, was created.
• Revelation 3:14 does not state that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was created.
• Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He is YHWH God for there is NO other (Isaiah 45:5).

Here in lies your problem. You're buying into arguments against Scripture. You're defying sound logic and grasping fantasies. Jesus Himself said that the Father is the only true God. Jesus said, He came out of the Father. Paul said, 'to us there is one God, the Father'. Both Jesus and Paul make distinctions between God and Jesus. You can listen to people try to explain this all away and hold to a 5th century doctrine that is not found in Scripture, or you can believe Jesus, Paul, and the Scriptures. The choice is yours.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The WEB translates...we ought to render the passage before us...

Precious friend, thanks for your input.

Yes, we understand many New world (over 100 now?) translations
change/omit words found in The PRESERVED Word Of Truth,
so no surprise there!

How about All Of the Sufficient Evidence From The Preserved Word
Of Truth, Itself, "SELF explanatory," and don't have the need of:

"OUGHT to be rendered" a Different way?:​

500 Plain And Clear Passages Confirming JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!

You do realize, of course, the adversary uses FIVE tactics Against
God's Preserved Word Of Truth, Correct?

1) question IT! 2) add to IT! 3) subtract from IT! 4) water IT down 5) DENY IT!
Why should we follow these?

GRACE And Peace...

 

[keithr]

• Heavenly voices declare that Christ Reigns in the Kingdom of God forever and ever with "Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.'" (Revelation 11:15)

Note that Rev. 11:15 says "the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ", that is, of God and of His anointed (Jesus). Clearly, once again, the Scriptures distinguish between God and His Son Jesus. It says "he" will rule forever, that is, God will rule forever, but God has chosen Jesus to rule for Him:

Col 1:18) ... that in all things he [Jesus] might have the preeminence.
Php 2:9-11 (WEB):

(9) Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name;
(10) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth,
(11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

God will rule over the world forever, with His Son Jesus exalted to the position of Lord (or king) over all. In the Old Testament Joseph was a type for Jesus. Joseph ruled over all of Egypt, and only Pharoh (a type for God) was above him in authority. Christians will also become kings in God's kingdom:

Revelation 1:5-6 (KJV):

(5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.​

• Paul wrote "He is excepted" (1 Corinthians 15:27) referring to Jesus, and Paul wrote "He is excepted" inside the 1 Cor 15:24-28 passage. Here is the full verse, "For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, 'All things are put in subjection,' it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him" (1 Corinthians 15:27).

You've got that wrong! Paul is quoting Psalms 8:6, which says:

(6) You make him ruler over the works of your hands. You have put all things under his feet:​

and applying it to Jesus. He says "He [God] put all things in subjection under his [Jesus'] feet" and "it is evident that he [God] is excepted who subjected all things to him". All things are under Jesus, but Jesus is under God:

1 Corinthians 11:3 (WEB):

(3) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.​

• Somehow, according to Paul, the Son is in subjection (1 Corinthians 15:28) while at the same time the Son is NOT in subjection because the Son is excepted (1 Corinthians 15:27), and this is because Jesus is God.

Your confusion continues. Instead, the conflict should have alerted to you to the possibility that you had misinterpreted it - which you had!

 

[keithr]

Yes, we understand many New world (over 100 now?) translations
change/omit words found in The PRESERVED Word Of Truth,
so no surprise there!

My post had nothing to do with the New World Translation (and I am not a Jehovah's Witness). I was quoting the 'Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges', a commentary on the KJV, published between 1882 - 1921 (before the creation of the JWs).

You do realize, of course, the adversary uses FIVE tactics Against God's Preserved Word Of Truth, Correct?

1) question IT! 2) add to IT! 3) subtract from IT! 4) water IT down 5) DENY IT!
Why should we follow these?

Indeed, like the Trinity doctrine that was added to it!

 

[Kermos]

A already told you god small g is not calling that one God. But in plain english your second line at John 1:1 reads--And God was with God--that is more than 1 God.

To avoid confusion here is the verse:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)

First, your small "g" claim for the final word in the verse results in you having two gods because you claim Jesus is another god which clearly violates YHWH God's commandment "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

Second, your proposition of "God was with God" cannot be linguistically expanded to "this God was with that God" without you breaking from the accurate translation, and both occurrences of God in "God was with God" represents the same God, so your "more than 1 God" claim crumbles.

Truly, Jesus is God with us (Matthew 1:23). Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Kermos]

No the us = YHWH and his master worker--Theone whom he created all other things through. The Hebrew rule is Elohim is never plural for the true God, that is fact.

Behold your evil lie for you wrote "Theone whom he created all other things through."; on the other hand, the Apostle John wrote "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3).

You added the word "other".

You "all other things".

John "All things".

Since John proclaimed "All things", then Jesus cannot be created for Jesus created "All things"; furthermore, since John proclaimed "All things", then Jesus is Creator God, that is, YHWH God.

Your evil deception includes that you think Jesus is not YHWH God, so you disbelieve in Jesus.

Now, this brings us to the "Us" in Genesis 1:26.

The Hebrew word Elohim is the English word God in Genesis 1:26.

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness'" (Genesis 1:26).

The Hebrew word Elohim represents God in plurality, that is, One Being called God in multiple persons.

Your imaginary rule about Elohim not being plural IS YOUR EVIL LIE.

The plurality of "Us" matches precisely with the plurality of "Elohim" ("God"); therefore, the "Us" is representative of the person of the Father and the person of the Word of God and the person of the Holy Spirit of God.

There are NO created creatures in "Elohim" nor the "Us" in Genesis 1:26.

Incorporating John's message of "All things" (John 1:3) with "Let Us make man" (Genesis 1:26) proves that the "Us" absolutely demonstrates that Jesus is YHWH God because the "Us" is "God" in Genesis 1:26.

Your WICKED LIE that the "Us" in Genesis 1:26 represents created creatures is tantamount to you denying Jesus thus your deception results in everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46) - whether you believe in everlasting punishment or not.

 

[Kermos]

Michael is Chief over all angels, thus ruler over all mortals as well. But He hands the kingdom back to his God and Father and subjects himself. That is not what God does. God is king of eternity, not in subjection to any ever.

You wickedly bear false witness against Jesus because you make the Christ out to be the angel Michael, so you violate "You shall not bear false witness" (Exodus 20:16).

There is NO scripture that states Jesus is Michael nor Michael is Jesus.

You bear false witness against King Jesus, truly God, and you lie about the Kingdom of God by way of you misrepresenting Paul's explanation in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 while you subtract many other passages, but
post #381 in this thread truthfully exhibits the passages about King Jesus, His reign forever, and the Kingdom of God without end.

 

[Kermos]

And there you have it.....no amount of scripture will convince a person who cannot acknowledge the clear scriptural evidence. It’s a certain kind of blindness.....but not unexpected.

We will let Jesus tell us HIS truth when he brings down his judgment.....shall we? Then we will all know.

Look at you, Aunty Jane, you repeat your failure about scripture in the first paragraph below, and you stumble about the Truth (John 14:6) in the second paragraph below.

You prove that you disbelieve the Word of God which states "so shall My Word be that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it" (Isaiah 55:11).

Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5). See post #261 in this thread for a scriptural examination of this matter.

 

[Kermos]

He said--The Father is greater than i)--no equality.

"The Father and I are One" (John 10:30).

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." (John 5:18)

The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (John 10:31-33)

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28) - the Son of God.

The Son of Man says "I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

The equality of the Son of God with God remains intact!!!

 

[Keiw]

Yes on YHWH. That is indeed the name of the one true God. And you are right about it being a bit confusing if we read most English translations. That's why I had to get into the Greek. Anyone proficient in Greek would have to agree with me. That's just how it is. Greek was probably the most precise language ever. Like I said, it might take a bit of work to get to the meat of things, but we are supposedly workmen who rightly divide the Word (2 Tim 2:15).

I'm sorry, I didn't write the Bible, I'm just point out what it says. I'm not even "translating" anything. All the verses I quoted just say what they say.

I don't think I'd be far off in saying you didn't really dig into what I wrote. I say that because it is just too much to digest in one sitting. I know it took me many hours of study, comparing verse to verse, to arrive at my conclusion in the matter. Of course, you could just say from the git-go that it's all lies, but you really wouldn't know without spending some time in serious study and honest introspection.

But everyone is right in their own eyes, so maybe I'm missing something. Which verse do you think I'm mis-translating? What would be the correct translation?

God bless.

Oh no you took me wrong. I wasnt saying you mistranslated, i mentioned trinity translations have errors. Yes everyone thinks they are right, but all creation can see a mass of confusion in sights like these. One would think there are 20 different truths. But there is only one. And God requires one to serve him in spirit and truth. John 4:22-24. Are the failing to realize that satan is behind the other 19 truths, misleading one to fail Gods will of John 4:22-24-- yet all claim to have holy spirit. Its a mass of confusion.

 

[Keiw]

The people in the Watchtower Society design, develop, and promote deceptions that lead themselves and other people astray from the Truth (John 14:6).

Such people alter scripture, and they claim their humanistic writings are required for salvation and for knowledge.

It is written of such people "evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived" (2 Timothy 3:13).

The Truth (John 14:6) according to the Word of God is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

You will find out you are wrong. Catholicism mistranslated to fit false council teachings=100% fact. There own encyclopedia shows it is fact. They created false truths at the 5 councils they held back in the 300,s. No trinity was being served at the first council of Nicea in 325 it was added later about 381. There encyclopedia says the apostles knew nothing of God being a trinity. They were with Jesus serving the true living God. Its not very hard to figure out.

 

[Keiw]

You are breaching the context of the word "creation" in Colossians 1:15.

The phrase "all creation" in Colossians 1:15 refers to all the born by the Spirit of God persons after the crucifixion of Christ, He being the "Firstborn of all creation".

The context is clear as we look at other verses in Colossians 1 - please take note of the word "increasing".

"which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as in you also since the day you heard and understood the grace of God in truth" (Colossians 1:6).

"so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God" (Colossians 1:10).

"For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins" (Colossians 1:13-14).

See, the context of "all creation" in Colossians 1:15 is the Assembly of God - "He is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15).

In context, the "Firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 refers to the Firstborn of all the born by the Spirit of God persons.

The context is not the creation around the time of Adam or prior to Adam as verse 15 is approached in Colossians 1.

The context up until verse 15 of Colossians 1 is the creation and increasing of the citizenry of the Kingdom of God, even of the building up of the Kingdom of God.

Subsequent to Colossians 1:15, we find "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16).

The phrase "all things" in Colossians 1:16 indicate that Jesus is Creator, and it is revealed that God is Creator (see Genesis 1 to Genesis 3).

The clause "all things have been created through Him and for Him" in Colossians 1:16 indicates that Jesus was not created because of the phrase "all things" forces the fact that Jesus cannot be a part of the "all things" created - He is separate from the "all things" group thus uncreated.

The phrase "all things" in Colossians 1:16 includes all the born by the Spirit of God persons.

As is typical of Watchtower Society personnel, you add to scripture and you subtract from scripture.

Created for him by the one who is greater than him-his God and Father.

 

[Keiw]

Clearly you do not understand the English language sufficiently, in order to understand the concept of context.

The context of "all creation" in Colossians 1:15 is the Assembly of God - "He is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15).

In context, the "Firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 refers to the Firstborn of all the born by the Spirit of God persons.

The context is not the creation around the time of Adam or prior to Adam as verse 15 is approached in Colossians 1.

The context up until verse 15 of Colossians 1 is the creation and increasing of the citizenry of the Kingdom of God, even of the building up of the Kingdom of God.

Anyone who understands english knows all creation is talking about the beginning creation. That is when it occurred.