A Discussion About Truth

[bbyrd009]

There was no natural cause of death in Eden, which means that ageing and sickness would not have taken place

i think the kind of “death” A&E suffered after eating the fruit make it pretty clear that it was spiritual, not literal

My heart fully identifies with God’s original purpose for humankind

which you might, possibly, have misinterpreted, yes?

I can think of many, many vv that are being overlooked here, which would lead to “truth” i guess, although i am not really interested in getting into that with someone who still holds beliefs about tomorrow, or thinks that we might somehow achieve a “sinless” state, ok.

I would again just say that you might keep an open mind there, and be prepared for your interpretation to not work out as you intend. I say this bc i have seen many despair and lose faith when it became apparent that things were not going to work out like they imagined.

And i dont mean for this to be taken as disagreement either ok, bc i do not know. I am running strictly on uneasy feelings (and ignored Scripture) in this exchange, ok. You might possibly even be right. But i highly doubt it.

 

[BarneyFife]

There was no natural cause of death in Eden, which means that ageing and sickness would not have taken place. It only came into the sphere of human existence with the advent of sin. Sinless beings are not subject to ageing, sickness or death.

Unless they were denied access to the tree of life.

The absence of life is death.

 

[Philip James]

Unless they were denied access to the tree of life.

The absence of life is death.

I call heaven and earth today to witness against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live,

Has this not always been the choice offered to man?

Choose LIFE therefore and live!

What an awesome GOD we have!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[BarneyFife]

we are either living up to Christ's teachings, or we aren't

No one is perfect and no one can do all things perfectly

These two statements are conflicting to me. How much sin is permissible in Christianity? The standard is perfect obedience.

God knows if what we offer him is our best. He gave us his best, so we are under obligation to give him our best as well.

Our best will never be good enough. The Pharisees’ righteousness was not acceptable because it did not come from a regenerate heart.

What is "religious liberty"? Can you define that...?

Essentially and spiritually, religious liberty is probation– the power that Christ provides to resist every temptation, and the freedom of choice to give in to temptation in this life.

But civilly it is government protection from religious discrimination.

Many folks don’t realize the difference.

all we can offer is what God requires of us.

Only by the indwelling of His Spirit, which He will force upon no one.

And, generally speaking, we don’t want that, fully.

Are we in some doubt about what that should be?

Well, I had the impression earlier that you were suggesting non-combatancy should be compulsory from a directive of church leadership. I don’t think many Christians would agree with that. I don’t think I would.

He doesn't want mere performance.....all he wants is our compliance without complaint....and that from the heart....

A totally regenerate heart, yes. There is no other way, in my perception of what the Bible teaches.

It is not the elders' job to be the spiritual police, but discipline was necessary in the first century for clear breaches of Christian teachings, and it is just as necessary in this time of the end.

The term “clear breaches” must be defined to be meaningful.

Religious liberty cannot mean "believe and do whatever you wish".

It kinda does, though. Just look around. God is allowing Satan’s experiment to play out until He is ready to stop it.

it is God who "fills" them with his spirit

Not without persuasive hungering and thirsting after righteousness…

He doesn't expect perfection because sin will not allow for that,

Again, how much sin, then, is okay?

but it doesn't mean that they, or we, stop trying.

What we should be trying to do is submit our will to Jesus, no?

I see no paradox.....conforming to the standards set out in the scriptures is all that is asked of us

And we do not do it. What is demanded for redemption is that we believe in the most profound sense of the word.

We are the drivers of our own life. We hand the reigns only to God, not sin.

How can we drive if God has the reins? We are not drivers–we are ‘submitters.’

Yet, if we do fall, we can get back up again, confident that if we are truly repentant, Christ's blood provides forgiveness.

How do we know if we are ‘truly repentant?’

As above, you will have to define what that means....."individual religious liberty". Where will I find Jesus advocating that?

Whosoever will… Whosoever believeth… Choose you this day… It’s everywhere in the Bible.

I don't remember saying it was.... but if you join the military or support politically motivated bloodshed, its a test of one's "Christianity" IMO.

I meant that it was never a test of fellowship in the Adventist church, that I know of. There was actually a schism and a resulting offshoot denomination over this matter during and after WWI.

How can you be "no part of the world" if you are up to your neck in its politic agendas?

In the Adventist church, it is taught that if a Christian aligns himself with any political party, he immediately alienates himself from candidates for Heaven.

Sorry but you lost me on this one....I don't think I got out of that parable what you did

I anticipated this. That is why I was careful to enlarge and underline the meaning of the parable.

Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The Reformation accomplished what was needed at the time. It broke the power of the Roman church, and it put God’s word into the hands of the people to translate and read for themselves. Like the ancient Be·roeʹans who consulted the scriptures to check whether the apostles were sticking to God’s word. (Acts 17:10) They were commended for doing so.

Johannes Guttenberg inventing the printing press is what ultimately broke Catholicism's stranglehold on the Christian world, not the Reformation. The printing press made it possible for people outside the Catholic clergy to afford and acquire their own copy, which eventually led to more people being able to challenge Catholic dogma. The Reformers had no control over that, and they didn't want their own falsehoods being challenged any more than the pope did.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Unless they were denied access to the tree of life.

The absence of life is death.

Yes, but you are missing the point.....they were denied access to the only means they had to go on living indefinitely....only AFTER sin had overtaken them.
When God told them that they would die in the “day” that they ate, it was God’s counting of a day which was stated by Peter....
“But this one thing forget not, beloved, That one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, And a thousand years as one day.” (2 Peter 3:8)

Look at the genealogy listed in Genesis....not a single human lived to 1,000 years....all died before that “day” ended.

Had the first humans not sinned, access to the tree of life would have guaranteed everlasting life in their mortal flesh. (It would not give them immortality which is not the same as everlasting life.)
Mortal human life was to be extended as long as they obeyed their Creator.....continuing life was always conditional. Obey and live...disobey and die. Free will was never “free” of consequences.

 

[MatthewG]

Thankfully

truth is - Jesus Christ has taken care of sin.

We naturally still sin, however Jesus Christ by the Spirit of Christ can help us in our flesh though we will continue to sin.

Whatever is not of faith is sin.

Sometimes I am can be an a**hole to other people...
Sometimes I become bothered when another needs help...

My choice is to either be an a**hole to the person, or rely on God by the holy spirit and the spirit of Christ and walk by faith in helping the person out.

Facts. Ball is in your court. You make the next decision daily.

 

[Aunty Jane]

These two statements are conflicting to me. How much sin is permissible in Christianity? The standard is perfect obedience.

There are two kinds of sin that the Bible speaks of.....the sin that incurs death, and the sin that doesn’t....but is still inexcusable. There are degrees of seriousness. No human can be free of sin in this system, but there are sins which warrant punishment when committed by “brothers” (or sisters) in the congregation. God authorises the ones taking the lead to offer counsel and discipline to such ones....always lovingly.

“But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.” (1 Corinthians 5:11-13)
There it is....
Only those who show no repentance will be expelled.

Our best will never be good enough. The Pharisees’ righteousness was not acceptable because it did not come from a regenerate heart.

Our best has to be “good enough” because we have nothing more to give. The Pharisees “righteousness” was all in their own mind. They did not have an once of genuine righteousness in them. (Matthew 23) It’s never about how we see ourselves...but only how our appointed judge sees us. He knows every ‘wart’.

Essentially and spiritually, religious liberty is probation– the power that Christ provides to resist every temptation, and the freedom of choice to give in to temptation in this life.

We all have choices, temptations and traps because of who is ruling this world. (1 John 5:19) But we have to know why world rulership was handed to the devil in the first place. (Luke 4:5-8) We have to be aware of why we are living this alien life....and where it is going. What is the purpose of it all?

But civilly it is government protection from religious discrimination.

What about all those Christians who do not enjoy government protection in religious liberty?
In those nations the discrimination is absolute....so they have to function in spite of it, often enduring years of unjust persecution and imprisonment. We were told to expect this.

The term “clear breaches” must be defined to be meaningful.

As above....there has to be something about a person’s conduct or attitude that betrays them as guilty of offences against the commands of God. Witnesses to any breach are sought so that the case can be examined judicially....and fairly.
It even extends to those who want to create divisions in the congregation by promoting their own ideas against the Bible’s clearly stated truths. (2 John 8-11; Proverbs 6:16-19)

It kinda does, though. Just look around. God is allowing Satan’s experiment to play out until He is ready to stop it.

“Satan’s experiment”? If you understand why, and you also understand how long this situation has been going on....then you will see why only now is it coming to an end. All prophesy is long term, but when you understand that earth time is not God’s time, “a thousand years is as a day” to our Creator.....it all makes sense. Look back and see every thousand years as one day....it hasn’t been long at all to God. The end was in sight from the beginning and everything in between was to play out within God’s purpose. (Isaiah 46:10)
What is the outcome? (Revelation 21:2-4)

Again, how much sin, then, is okay?

The degrees of sin are important. Under God’s law certain sins merited the death penalty. Other sins required compensation to be paid to the victims of crime....the seriousness of the sin, dictated the penalty. And yet punishment is not what is hoped for by God.....he would rather the sinner repent and come back to Him with a clean conscience, knowing that he has Christ to thank for his forgiveness (as a result of his repentance). Only humility can produce that good fruit.

And we do not do it. What is demanded for redemption is that we believe in the most profound sense of the word.

Yes....if “the demons believe and shudder” (James 2:19) then “belief” has to be more than a mental acknowledgment.....it is a matter of the heart, which no man can read....but God can.

How can we drive if God has the reins? We are not drivers–we are ‘submitters.’

We are the driver, but God is the navigator. Do you know much about rally driving? It’s is very popular in Australia. The navigator in the passenger seat is relied upon totally to tell the driver what is ahead...every bend and corner is carefully planned out ahead of the race so that the driver never has to second guess his navigator. His life is in the navigator’s hands. How much more can we trust God as our navigator?

How do we know if we are ‘truly repentant?’

Maybe we can tell by how we feel about what we have done. Heartfelt remorse is just that...again, not just a mental acknowledgment. God knows a contrite heart.

In the Adventist church, it is taught that if a Christian aligns himself with any political party, he immediately alienates himself from candidates for Heaven.

In our brotherhood, any alignment with the political entities of this world is an alignment with the ‘puppet master’ behind them. It would be a breach of our strict stance on neutrality and a disfellowshipping offence. There is only one ruler of this world and he can give power to whomever he pleases. (Luke 4:5-6) Jesus told us to be “no part of the world” and he meant it. He said that this would make people hate his disciples, just as the Jews hated him. (John 15:18-21) But he also said that if some listened to him, some would listen to them as well. This can only happen if God issues an invitation to that individual. God will detect growth in a seed of truth that was planted in a heart, and “draw” that person to learn more. (John 6:44, 65) No one can come to the Son without an invitation from his Father......that is the bottom line.

 

[farouk]

Thankfully

truth is - Jesus Christ has taken care of sin.

We naturally still sin, however Jesus Christ by the Spirit of Christ can help us in our flesh though we will continue to sin.

Whatever is not of faith is sin.

Sometimes I am can be an a**hole to other people...
Sometimes I become bothered when another needs help...

My choice is to either be an a**hole to the person, or rely on God by the holy spirit and the spirit of Christ and walk by faith in helping the person out.

Facts. Ball is in your court. You make the next decision daily.

@MatthewG Romans 8 is such an encouragement because the Holy Spirit Who indwells every born again believer also causes them to cry 'Abba, Father'....

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG Romans 8 is such an encouragement because the Holy Spirit Who indwells every born again believer also causes them to cry 'Abba, Father'....

Farouk, you are always on the mark of a section of the bible to read.

Even the encouragement of the Psalms is always amazing to read as well!

 

[farouk]

Farouk, you are always on the mark of a section of the bible to read.

Even the encouragement of the Psalms is always amazing to read as well!

@MatthewG There are many Messianic Psalms, indeed.....

Psalm 110, for example......

 

[Aunty Jane]

i think the kind of “death” A&E suffered after eating the fruit make it pretty clear that it was spiritual, not literal
which you might, possibly, have misinterpreted, yes?

Not at all....spiritual death precedes physical death. If the first humans had not sinned, they never would have died. The “tree of life” guaranteed continuing physical life.....their obedience to God’s commands guaranteed both. They lost more than their spiritual lives that day. (Genesis 3:22-24)

I can think of many, many vv that are being overlooked here, which would lead to “truth” i guess, although i am not really interested in getting into that with someone who still holds beliefs about tomorrow, or thinks that we might somehow achieve a “sinless” state, ok.

As long as you close your mind, your heart will be closed as well.
Please share these verses and we can explore them. I am not aware of overlooking any verses, so please enlighten me. Prophesy is always about the future. Many in the Revelation are still to take place. The future is important because the present is not somewhere we want to spend the rest of our lives.

I would again just say that you might keep an open mind there, and be prepared for your interpretation to not work out as you intend. I say this bc i have seen many despair and lose faith when it became apparent that things were not going to work out like they imagined.

But you yourself have admitted to having closed your mind, which is probably why there are doubts clouding your views? Those who lose faith, have simply not been fed correctly. Good nourishing spiritual food leads to strong spiritual health....Jesus promised that as part of his “sign” concerning these last days, he would appoint a “faithful and wise slave” who would feed his household of fellow slaves, their “food at the proper time”. (Matthew 24:45)

That “slave” exists today, and is feeding life-giving truths to all in that household. Because they all “eat” the same spiritual food, there are no divisions among them, all would speak in agreement. (1 Corinthians 1:10) We have to find that source of truth in a world full of deceit. God will guide us if we are sincere. (John 6:65)

And i dont mean for this to be taken as disagreement either ok, bc i do not know. I am running strictly on uneasy feelings (and ignored Scripture) in this exchange, ok. You might possibly even be right. But i highly doubt it.

Let’s explore your misgivings and the reasons for them. Maybe we can both benefit...?
What do you believe I am missing?

 

[farouk]

Johannes Guttenberg inventing the printing press is what ultimately broke Catholicism's stranglehold on the Christian world, not the Reformation. The printing press made it possible for people outside the Catholic clergy to afford and acquire their own copy, which eventually led to more people being able to challenge Catholic dogma. The Reformers had no control over that, and they didn't want their own falsehoods being challenged any more than the pope did.

Remember also that at the Renaissance revival of learning the methods used by scholars such as Laurentius Valla, and Desiderius Erasmus and many others emphasized going back to the sources. It became apparent that many ecclesiastical claims did not stand up to scrutiny, when put in the light of what Scripture actually said rather than what ecclesiastical ppl claimed it did.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not at all....spiritual death precedes physical death. If the first humans had not sinned, they never would have died

a pop opinion, sure, but unfort just that i reckon

As long as you close your mind, your heart will be closed as well

ok tks

Please share these verses and we can explore them. I am not aware of overlooking any verses, so please enlighten me

maybe at some point we might do that, but we would end up taking over this thread i guess

Prophesy is always about the future.

is it? No prophecies have yet been fulfilled?

Many in the Revelation are still to take place

even for those who died yesterday?

The future is important because the present is not somewhere we want to spend the rest of our lives

and you just cant think of any Scripture that this perception violates huh

But you yourself have admitted to having closed your mind

have i? a quote would help, ty

which is probably why there are doubts clouding your views?

well, that might be your perception, but i am content with today

What do you believe I am missing?

well, you say that it is i who has admitted to having closed my mind, yet i allowed that you may be correct; yet when i suggest that you might have misinterpreted something, you say “not at all” right. So for you it is essentially “We do not yet know what we will become…oh, except for Aj”

and i dont want this to be taken wrong, bc imo you seem to have a pretty good heart, but there is a um speech pattern that accompanies this pov, that you cannot hide, and that most “believers” pretty quickly assume…that i guess just cant really be addressed right now.

Um…do you know everything about the future, Aj? You’re abs sure that you dont have even one single thing wrong? I mean wadr “not at all” more or less says it all

 

[BarneyFife]

@Aunty Jane

Sorry, but I don't like the turn this is taking. We're not communicating very well at all and it seems like you're correcting me for things I'm just not even claiming, and it's just getting too messy for me to sort out at this point, so...

It was worth a try, I guess.

 

[Aunty Jane]

As long as you close your mind, your heart will be closed as well

I will have to stop using the generic “you” and start using the collective “we”. Sorry about that.
I wasn’t trying to be accusatory.

maybe at some point we might do that, but we would end up taking over this thread i guess

I would like to investigate why you think no group can have the truth? If there are “wheat and weeds” in the world as Jesus foretold.....the “wheat” have the truth, and the “weeds” are a failed counterfeit, created by the devil. Those on the road to life are “few” and there is a reason for that. (Matthew 7:13-14) God does not leave us without the truth in this critical point in history. How could he?

If the times we are living in at present are said to be “just like the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37-39) then don’t we need to note the similarities? Can we start a thread to explore these things?

is it? No prophecies have yet been fulfilled?

No prophesy is written after the fact...otherwise it is not a prophesy.
Prophesy is history written in advance...always written before it happens.
Many prophesies have been fulfilled, none so prolific as in the case of the man, Jesus Christ.
The Bible contains many of those prophesies, as well as their fulfilment....Jesus often mentioned them.

even for those who died yesterday?

The dead are included in all prophesy about the future......Revelation 21:2-4 for example. Those alive at the foretold end of the present world system, will see this prophesy fulfilled, but Jesus’ prophesied that he would raise the dead in the future to also enjoy those blessings. (John 5:28-29)

He had already raised his friend Lazarus as a sort of demonstration of what the resurrection was about...a complete restoration of this life. (John 11:11-14) Jesus said that Lazarus was “sleeping” and that he was going to “awaken” him. Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him, restoring him back to the life he had before? Jesus and his apostles raised other dead ones, returning them to their families too.

and you just cant think of any Scripture that this perception violates huh

Do you believe that this world is the one we were meant to live in? What scripture have I violated?
Please tell me....

have i? a quote would help, ty

You indicated that you were not interested in speaking to those with “beliefs about tomorrow or who thinks that we might somehow achieve a “sinless” state”....

Why do you find prophesies about the future so confronting? The Bible says we need “faith” which it describes as.... “the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1)

All the restoration prophesies are about the future. Isaiah spoke about life on earth under Messiah’s kingdom....(Isaiah 65:17-25) Peter spoke about that prophesy as not yet fulfilled. (2 Peter 3:13) “Righteousness” was to dominate that new arrangement. It is yet future.....but the days are well along and the nearness of it is indicated by the state of the world at present. We exist in this world only by the hope of what God’s Kingdom will bring with it..

Hebrews 6:16-19...
“For men swear by someone greater, and their oath is the end of every dispute, since it is a legal guarantee to them. 17 In this same way, when God decided to demonstrate more clearly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, 18 in order that through two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to the refuge may have strong encouragement to take firm hold of the hope set before us. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, both sure and firm”...
If we lose our anchor, we will drift with the tide....

well, that might be your perception, but i am content with today

I could never be content with this life. Everything in me is repulsed by the disgusting conduct of human beings on this planet. When I hear the word “inhuman” attached to what humans do to each other, it reminds me of what the word means......“not human”.....“outside of what is considered normal human behaviour”.
So it explains to me who is the major influence in human affairs.....the “god of this world” who is capable of “blinding the minds” of those who refuse to believe. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

well, you say that it is i who has admitted to having closed my mind, yet i allowed that you may be correct; yet when i suggest that you might have misinterpreted something, you say “not at all” right. So for you it is essentially “We do not yet know what we will become…oh, except for Aj”

Since it is my belief that these words were spoken by one of God’s elect, it stands to reason that he could say that. No other human apart from Jesus himself was ever resurrected as a spirit creature from being human, and taken to heaven in a different body. So any wonder the elect could say that they did not know what they would become.....

Whereas those who will experience the general resurrection of which Jesus spoke, will return to life as they do know it.....as all those ones who experienced a resurrection did, back in the first century. Resurrection is a return to this life, minus the wickedness of those whom the devil influenced to desert their Creator. Living in a world without sin or wickedness was God’s first purpose for us.

and i dont want this to be taken wrong, bc imo you seem to have a pretty good heart, but there is a um speech pattern that accompanies this pov, that you cannot hide, and that most “believers” pretty quickly assume…that i guess just cant really be addressed right now.

It’s called confidence.....not to be confused with arrogance.....OK?
Confidence comes from knowing where you come from, why you’re here, and where you are going.

Um…do you know everything about the future, Aj?

Only what the Bible tells us. What more do we need to know?

You’re abs sure that you dont have even one single thing wrong? I mean wadr “not at all” more or less says it all

I believe that I have all the important things right....that is what I have faith in. Can I do everything perfectly? Not a chance....sin will not allow for perfection...but God already knows this. Yet I do not believe that God would leave us without his truth at this juncture. It can be right under our noses and we just don’t see it. Go back to the days of Noah and see that one man with an unpopular message could have saved a lot of people if only they had listened. Jesus used that situation to explain how it would be at his return. (Matthew 24:37-39)

There are so many ideas out there....but only one truth......it’s in the Bible, right under our noses....but lack of faith prevents many from accepting the message. It doesn’t suit what they want to believe.

Why do some have strong faith, where others do not? What is it that makes people weak in faith and has them giving way to doubt? (James 1:5-8)

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane

Sorry, but I don't like the turn this is taking. We're not communicating very well at all and it seems like you're correcting me for things I'm just not even claiming, and it's just getting too messy for me to sort out at this point, so...

It was worth a try, I guess.

I’m sorry you feel that way Qo. What “turn” did it take? Did I misunderstand the purpose of this thread?

Problems interpreting what others are saying is always present in these kinds of exchanges. Are you interpreting the statements of my beliefs as correcting you? We are all free to express our own truth, so how is it getting uncomfortable for you?

Wasn’t the purpose of this thread to discuss “truth” as we understand it? Haven’t we all just done that?

Again my apologies if I have overstepped....

 

[bbyrd009]

I will have to stop using the generic “you” and start using the collective “we”. Sorry about that.
I wasn’t trying to be accusatory

i just learned that one myself, no prob
Paul should read quite a bit diff to you now i guess!

God does not leave us without the truth in this critical point in history. How could he?

there’s a little joke involved in you shall know the truth i guess…but how to bring it out so that it can be heard, hmm

If the times we are living in at present are said to be “just like the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37-39) then don’t we need to note the similarities?

ah, “if,” the biggest word…lol
just like every gen before us, surely

Can we start a thread to explore these things?

be my guest; debate the possibilities with the other meat eaters if you like, sure; i mean ill try, dont get me wrong, but…ya

No prophesy is written after the fact...otherwise it is not a prophesy.
Prophesy is history written in advance...always written before it happens.
Many prophesies have been fulfilled, none so prolific as in the case of the man, Jesus Christ.
The Bible contains many of those prophesies, as well as their fulfilment....Jesus often mentioned them

so, buried in all the “this is that, that is this” somewhere is the admission, so understand the point, if you will

also Jesus of Nazareth you may not…have the same understanding there as i do; or as anyone else does, for that matter i guess. Ya, that helped lol
the Nazareth part? That was not put in there for nothing i guess, ok? That has a crucial meaning that is not being comprehended, imo
can anything good come from Nazareth?

 

[bbyrd009]

Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him, restoring him back to the life he had before?

well, not where you imagine, i guess; but imo you dont know who “Lazarus” was yet either, Eleazar

but bam imagine him as literal, if you like

Do you believe that this world is the one we were meant to live in? What scripture have I violated?
Please tell me....

well, I came that you might have life, more abundantly springs to mind

You indicated that you were not interested in speaking to those with “beliefs about tomorrow or who thinks that we might somehow achieve a “sinless” state”

oh, im just like the next guy surely, plenty interested, but who would hear lol

Why do you find prophesies about the future so confronting? The Bible says we need “faith” which it describes as.... “the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1)

All the restoration prophesies are about the future. Isaiah spoke about life on earth under Messiah’s kingdom....(Isaiah 65:17-25) Peter spoke about that prophesy as not yet fulfilled

bc it was not yet fulfilled for him maybe?

All the restoration prophesies are about the future. Isaiah spoke about life on earth under Messiah’s kingdom....(Isaiah 65:17-25) Peter spoke about that prophesy as not yet fulfilled. (2 Peter 3:13) “Righteousness” was to dominate that new arrangement. It is yet future.....but the days are well along and the nearness of it is indicated by the state of the world at present.

so leave the world, and make the future the present, imo

We exist in this world only by the hope of what God’s Kingdom will bring with it

more with the statements of absolute truth that have no bas…look, even if you didnt have this, wouldnt you still have that?

If we lose our anchor, we will drift with the tide

but still “existing,” see, so your prev statement has been made a lie, right; you absolutely do not exist in this world only by the yadayadayada

I could never be content with this life. Everything in me is repulsed by the disgusting conduct of human beings on this planet. When I hear the word “inhuman” attached to what humans do to each other, it reminds me of what the word means......“not human”.....“outside of what is considered normal human behaviour”.

if your right eye offends you, pluck it out and toss it

So it explains to me who is the major influence in human affairs.....the “god of this world” who is capable of “blinding the minds” of those who refuse to believe

well, so leave the world, pluck the right eye, become like a little child, etc

Since it is my belief that these words were spoken by one of God’s elect, it stands to reason that he could say that

So any wonder the elect could say that they did not know

not sure what, how to reconcile these two contra statements, sorry; gimme awhile to absorb here and ill prolly get what you meant

Whereas those who will experience the general resurrection of which Jesus spoke, will return to life as they do know it

as all those ones who experienced a resurrection did, back in the first century

Resurrection is a return to this life, minus the wickedness of those whom the devil influenced to desert their Creator

Living in a world without sin or wickedness was God’s first purpose for us

its like this and like that…lol. Got any Scrip for that assertion? One v, not even asking for a witness

look, are they going to return to the same life that they hate too, just like you already said you didnt wanna do? why do you think this? Leave the world, and live those bottom two right now, why not?

 

[bbyrd009]

It’s called confidence.....not to be confused with arrogance.....OK?

imo you are a very nice meat eater, yes
but it isnt called what is it? for nothing i guess Aj

Confidence comes from knowing where you come from, why you’re here, and where you are going

no one knows where they go when they die or since that is ecclesiastes, from a…weird pov iow, you might address that confidence from a secular pov for a second—iow w/o just regurgitating some Scripture that might be being misinterpreted—and splain to me where you were, before you were born in layman’s terms, and why you are here now, and where you are going, Aj? Bc tbh idk any of that stuff, except maybe very broadly speaking, and wadr idt you do either!

i happen to have a little kid here next to me…and i wish i could convey her answers lol. Suffice it to say that she thinks im nuts now i guess

anyway, got any Script for that?

Only what the Bible tells us. What more do we need to know?

youre avoiding the q Aj, and also claiming that you know what the Bible tells us? dangerous ground, imo. I sure dont know lol. Maybe 5%. maybe.

I believe that I have all the important things right....that is what I have faith in

ha well why not just set up an altar to yourself that we may all join in worship to you then, Aj lol. J/k of course, but see how that might be a problem? Any little kids you know of going around with that perspective?

of course i am being dramatic here ok, i totally get why you are…there, but, um…remember when you first came to your cult? Sect, whatever? JW? Your first love, day 1?

I believe that I have all the important things right....that is what I have faith in

yes ok and what do you imagine the guy here below is saying Aj
3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.
4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God

Can I do everything perfectly? Not a chance....sin will not allow for perfection...but God already knows this

little kids we give a pass to alla time tho, huh? Our right eye we dont use on them, right

Yet I do not believe that God would leave us without his truth at this juncture. It can be right under our noses and we just don’t see it

tell me about it

you have a good heart Aj, but you are in…a sect that it is going to be very hard to um overcome, to advance from…ya, so later for that. But fwiw i am often accused of being JW, i follow many of their tenets…but all trees are places to start, to be from, to overcome, imo; they are wood

Go back to the days of Noah and see that one man with an unpopular message could have saved a lot of people if only they had listened

as it was then, so now, meaning that also in every single gen in between, same spiritual deal, diff time; nothing new in the world, i guess

Jesus used that situation to explain how it would be at his return

yes Aj, the “return” that we cannot Quote, that will not happen like we imagine, until we see Him as He is, ok

lol, just had to go back and change every “you” to “we” there, lol

There are so many ideas out there....but only one truth..

well, or so you say anyway, are convinced of, perhaps. Doesnt make it true though, right. State one Absolute truth for me, that exists (“objective evidence”), from the Bible, if you think you can

....it’s in the Bible, right under our noses....but lack of faith prevents many from accepting the message. It doesn’t suit what they want to believe

so believe all things, eh? that one took a while…so, believe what you like, see, i can walk together with you agreeing that that is what you believe, and believe it or not i have no desire or interest to convert you to my “beliefs,” which would not suit you at this point anyway i imagine

Why do some have strong faith, where others do not?

faith in what? specifically?

What is it that makes people weak in faith and has them giving way to doubt?

again, doubt about what?

see how the answer does not present itself as apparent, like it (ostensibly) should? I suggest that that is bc it is a non-question, a question about nothing, essentially. “Faith” as a noun, iow, when it should be a verb

or i mean are you asking why Jacob wrestled with God?