A question about the rapture

[PinSeeker]

Revelation 20 happens chronologically after all of Revelation 1 through 19.

Disagree. Merely reading something sequentially ~ verse two after verse one, three after two, etc. ~ and even chapters (again, two after one, three after two, etc.) does not necessarily mean the events described are sequential or purely chronological. Even concerning Revelation 19 alone, I would disagree that even it, from verse 1 to 21, is purely chronological. My outline of Revelation and its cycle of judgments is on the record here (post 281).

Who thinks Revelation 20 happens before 6BC?

This question is quite absurd... which is why you're posing it, I guess, but I'm fairly certain that I understand it as an... absurdity... in at least somewhat a different way than you do. But yes, in answer, nobody, I hope...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

I think this is my cue to bow out gracefully, David. I mean, I cited several passages of Scripture in my post in support of my position, which I would not have done, of course, if I was "looking to deny Holy Scripture." My goodness.


I do understand that to be your opinion, David. I would say quite the opposite... and I have no problem with you calling that my opinion.


Well, yes and no...


Agreed.

Grace and peace to you, David.

Scripture MUST be in Harmony with Scripture = 'apples to apples'

roman catholics, jws, pre-fibbers, cessationists and whirled peas all quote scripture to justify their position

PLEASE find a single scripture/passage that says "satan is locked up, sealed over and cannot deceive the nations as of TODAY or anytime in the past 2,000 Years since Christ walked this earth.

CLUE #1 - Satan being defeeated on the Cross by Christ does not fulfill Rev ch20 and NEVER can it.

 

[Timtofly]

Well, they're not the same vision, really, unless we lump it all together generally as John's prophecy, which he himself did in his introduction in Revelation 1:3. And, as I said to another poster, I'd say the fact that there's this epic battle going on in Revelation 10:11-21 and Revelation 20:7-10 is a really big similarity.

Was there only 1 WW in the last 100 years? Just 2 views from different angles? Obviously they were very similar.

Any one arguing that there were two in chronological order is just giving their opinion. Obviously one should go with parallels instead of facts. Parallelism definitely means there was only 1 WW.

 

[Davy]

Jesus himself indicated 3 comings.
One before the gt
one after
and one in rev 14 which is during the gt,

No, Jesus did not indicate 3 comings.

Jesus only revealed ONE time of His future return, and I showed you.

And when the New Testament speaks of the idea of Jesus' "coming", it is pointing to His future return, His only one time coming at the end of this world.

Sorry, but the idea of a Pre-tribulational Rapture is not Biblical, and that is what you are espousing with that idea of "3 comings".

 

[PinSeeker]

Scripture MUST be in Harmony with Scripture = 'apples to apples'

Absolutely. God is His own arbitor.

roman catholics, jws, pre-fibbers, cessationists and whirled peas all quote scripture to justify their position;

Well, I'm not quite sure who these "whirled peas" are... ... but yeah, wrongly, for the most part... And some ~ names withheld ~ use reengineered and heretical texts to do so... And some are just plain wrong...

PLEASE find a single scripture/passage that says "satan is locked up, sealed over and cannot deceive the nations as of TODAY or anytime in the past 2,000 Years since Christ walked this earth.

Well, if you are looking for the exact words you use hear, a verbatim quote, you won't find it, but that's being quite unreasonable. But there are numerous passages that indicated it, and this will not be the first time in this thread I have pointed them out, David, although I didn't actually quote them before, but will here. Yes, so, I'm reasonably certain you won't accept this, but you should see it in each of these passages, all four of them, but in my opinion maybe ~ maybe ~ especially the first and fourth ones below (the John 12 and Matthew 12 passages):

• “Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? But for this purpose I have come to this hour. Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not Mine. Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out." John 12:27-31; emphasis mine

• "For in Him (Christ) the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in Him, Who is the Head of all rule and authority. In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, Who raised Him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This He (God) set aside, nailing it to the cross. He (the Father) disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him (Christ)." Colossians 2:9-15; emphasis mine

• "Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world ~ he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, 'Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.'" Revelation 12:7-10; emphasis mine

• "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, 'It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.' Knowing their thoughts, He said to them, 'Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man?'" Matthew 12:24-29; emphasis mine

Satan being defeated on the Cross by Christ does not fulfill Rev ch20 and NEVER can it.

Not the whole of chapter 20, no, but I never insinuated that.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Davy]

You will soon see, and I am sure the Lord will not be happy with you, at all. You spared untruths and have the audacity to call other people liars. You are silly, and not worth chatting unto. On IGNORE.

Good, I don't want to hear anymore of your untruths and butchering of God's written Word. May God rebuke you, so that you learn to listen to Him instead of men.

 

[PinSeeker]

..and yet it vividly describes the rapture of the church.

Not in the sense that the church is "removed" from anything. The parable illustrates the suddenness of the end, for sure. As in the days of Noah and the suddenness of the flood that came upon the earth, which Jesus states late in Matthew 24, just a few sentences before His telling of the parable of the ten virgins.

But you choose to make the bride and groom into a "Jewish only" dynamic.

vs 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Wow thats great!
only Jews have to "watch and wait"

Well, if whoever you were talking to here means to say ethnic Jews only, then I would agree with you. But it is, actually, a Jewish only dynamic, in the sense of who God's Israel is, and who are the true Jews. Paul expounds on this in various places in many of his letters, but never more clearly than in the latter part of Romans 2 and then Romans 9-11. God's Israel includes both ethnic Jew and Gentile... people whom He calls, an innumerable multitude, from every tongue, tribe, and nation. These are Jews inwardly (rather than outwardly) ~ circumcision being a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter ~ whose praise is not from man but from God (Romans 2:28-29). Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring (Romans 9:6-9). And finally, a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in... and in this way all Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-26).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

Absolutely. God is His own arbitor.


Well, I'm not quite sure who these "whirled peas" are... ... but yeah, wrongly, for the most part... And some ~ names withheld ~ use reengineered and heretical texts to do so... And some are just plain wrong...


Well, if you are looking for the exact words you use hear, a verbatim quote, you won't find it, but that's being quite unreasonable. But there are numerous passages that indicated it, and this will not be the first time in this thread I have pointed them out, David, although I didn't actually quote them before, but will here. Yes, so, I'm reasonably certain you won't accept this, but you should see it in each of these passages, all four of them, but in my opinion maybe ~ maybe ~ especially the first and fourth ones below (the John 12 and Matthew 12 passages):

• “Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? But for this purpose I have come to this hour. Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not Mine. Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out." John 12:27-31; emphasis mine

• "For in Him (Christ) the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in Him, Who is the Head of all rule and authority. In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, Who raised Him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This He (God) set aside, nailing it to the cross. He (the Father) disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him (Christ)." Colossians 2:9-15; emphasis mine

• "Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world ~ he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, 'Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.'" Revelation 12:7-10; emphasis mine

• "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, 'It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.' Knowing their thoughts, He said to them, 'Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man?'" Matthew 12:24-29; emphasis mine

Not the whole of chapter 20, no, but I never insinuated that.

Grace and peace to you.

John 12:27-31 = "cast out" YES, locked up in chains with a seal over him that he cannot deceive the nations = NO

Colossians 2:9-15 = YES - disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him - YES
satan locked up in chains with a seal over him that he cannot deceive the nations = NO

Revelation ch12 = YES - Satan cast down to earth - YES
satan locked up in chains with a seal over him that he cannot deceive the nations = NO

1 Peter 5:8 = YES - Devil/Satan is NOT locked up, sealed over.........
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 - YES - But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
whose minds the god(satan) of this age has blinded/deceived, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Ephesians 6:10 - YES - Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Amil on Rev ch20 is FALSEHOOD according to Rev ch12, 1Peter5:8, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Ephesians 6:10-13 and more

 

[PinSeeker]

Was there only 1 WW in the last 100 years? Just 2 views from different angles? Obviously they were very similar.

LOL! Yes, I disagree that the battles described in Revelation 19:16-21 and Revelation 20:7-10 are different battles in different places in different times. Look at the result of the battle in both places, Timtofly. In Revelation 19, they were captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur, and in Revelation 20, fire came down from heaven and consumed them and they were thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur. Very similar, no? Yes, so much as to be the same result. I say you make a false dichotomy between the devil (or dragon) and the beast and the false prophet, Timtofly. You will not accept that; so be it.

Any one arguing that there were two in chronological order is just giving their opinion. Obviously one should go with parallels instead of facts. Parallelism definitely means there was only 1 WW.

LOL!

Love that GIF. Brando, man.... He was great.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

 

[PinSeeker]

John 12:27-31 = "cast out" YES, locked up in chains with a seal over him that he cannot deceive the nations = NO

Colossians 2:9-15 = YES - disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him - YES
satan locked up in chains with a seal over him that he cannot deceive the nations = NO

Revelation ch12 = YES - Satan cast down to earth - YES
satan locked up in chains with a seal over him that he cannot deceive the nations = NO

1 Peter 5:8 = YES - Devil/Satan is NOT locked up, sealed over.........
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 - YES - But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
whose minds the god(satan) of this age has blinded/deceived, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Ephesians 6:10 - YES - Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Amil on Rev ch20 is FALSEHOOD according to Rev ch12, 1Peter5:8, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Ephesians 6:10-13 and more

Sure, as expected. Opinion noted. Here we go back into the nations versus individuals back-and-forth. As I also said before, this is an earthly thing, of course, but even prisoners in federal penitentiaries can exert influence on people on the outside. And so it is with Satan in the spiritual sense. So, I say you are misapplying Revelation 12, 1 Peter 5, 2 Corinthians 4, Ephesians 6, and more in making your point... or trying to, anyway. We can agree to disagree... or, well, at least I can...

And, like I said, I'm very much okay with you calling what I have said my opinion.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

Sure, as expected. Opinion noted. Here we go back into the nations versus individuals back-and-forth. As I also said before, this is an earthly thing, of course, but even prisoners in federal penitentiaries can exert influence on people on the outside. And so it is with Satan in the spiritual sense. So, I say you are misapplying Revelation 12, 1 Peter 5, 2 Corinthians 4, Ephesians 6, and more in making your point... or trying to, anyway. We can agree to disagree... or, well, at least I can...

And, like I said, I'm very much okay with you calling what I have said my opinion.

Grace and peace to you.

Dear Friend,
The Holy Spirit urges you to turn away from false doctrine(s).

You say:
"but even prisoners in federal penitentiaries can exert influence on people on the outside. And so it is with Satan in the spiritual sense."

Your statement is 100% human conjecture and 100% error when attempting to circumvent Rev ch20

God says: "the Devil is still roaming about, on earth, seeking whom he may devour" = 1 Peter 5:8

God says: "the god of this world/satan, is FREE to blind the minds of people lest the light of the Gospel should shine in them"
2 Corinthians 4:3-4

Revelation 20:1-3 God says only at this Point in Time, AFTER the LORD Returns is satan finally locked up, whereby he cannot deceive.

PLEASE receive the PEACE and TRUTH of "It is written"

 

[Timtofly]

Disagree. Merely reading something sequentially ~ verse two after verse one, three after two, etc. ~ and even chapters (again, two after one, three after two, etc.) does not necessarily mean the events described are sequential or purely chronological. Even concerning Revelation 19 alone, I would disagree that even it, from verse 1 to 21, is purely chronological. My outline of Revelation and its cycle of judgments is on the record here (post 281).


This question is quite absurd... which is why you're posing it, I guess, but I'm fairly certain that I understand it as an... absurdity... in at least somewhat a different way than you do. But yes, in answer, nobody, I hope...

Grace and peace to you.

Not absurd. That is when Satan would be bound prior to the thief being born.

I mean the dragon was seen prior to the woman giving birth. You think the dragon with 7 heads was bound before the woman gave birth. Now that is absurd. I am not misrepresenting your opinion on parallel viewpoints. Here is your binding verse, no?

"But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

Do you not place Jesus as the one breaking into Satan's domain and binding him prior to the NT Covenant?

 

[PinSeeker]

The Holy Spirit urges you to turn away from false doctrine(s).

Hmmm… I’ll let the Holy Spirit, Who brings to mind all that Jesus has said and even gives us utterance when needed speak for Himself…

You say:
"but even prisoners in federal penitentiaries can exert influence on people on the outside. And so it is with Satan in the spiritual sense.

I’m… well aware of what I said… and have said before…

Your statement is 100% human conjecture and 100% error when attempting to circumvent Rev ch20

No, but I respect your opinion, and your passion in expressing it.

God says: "the Devil is still roaming about, on earth, seeking whom he may devour" = 1 Peter 5:8

God says: "the god of this world/satan, is FREE to blind the minds of people lest the light of the Gospel should shine in them"
2 Corinthians 4:3-4

Revelation 20:1-3 God says only at this Point in Time, AFTER the LORD Returns is satan finally locked up, whereby he cannot deceive.

I’m well aware of all these passages, and take them to heart every bit as much as you seem to, David.

PLEASE receive the PEACE and TRUTH of "It is written"

Right, right, well, I appreciate your persistence. I would maintain that I have very much done so.

So yes. As I said, I anticipated your response. I disagree, but would stop well short of labeling you in any way… or ~ David, pointedly speaking ~ presuming you to be inferior to me in any way, especially spiritually or regarding your spiritual state. At the very least, we should be able to agree that none of what we are talking about here is salvific… no “side” of this makes any of us somehow not (or less) saved, not (or less) in Christ, not (or less) having the Holy Spirit, not (or less) Christian, than anyone else. On the millennium and most other matters regarding John’s Revelation, we can agree to disagree, and that’s… okay.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

Hmmm… I’ll let the Holy Spirit, Who brings to mind all that Jesus has said and even gives us utterance when needed speak for Himself…

I’m… well aware of what I said… and have said before…


No, but I respect your opinion, and your passion in expressing it.


I’m well aware of all these passages, and take them to heart every bit as much as you seem to, David.

Right, right, well, I appreciate your persistence. I would maintain that I have very much done so.

So yes. As I said, I anticipated your response. I disagree, but would stop well short of labeling you in any way… or ~ David, pointedly speaking ~ presuming you to be inferior to me in any way, especially spiritually or regarding your spiritual state. At the very least, we should be able to agree that none of what we are talking about here is salvific… no “side” of this makes any of us somehow not (or less) saved, not (or less) in Christ, not (or less) having the Holy Spirit, not (or less) Christian, than anyone else. On the millennium and most other matters regarding John’s Revelation, we can agree to disagree, and that’s… okay.

Grace and peace to you.

Yeah and Amen that our Salvation is in the Finished Work of Christ on the Cross and the Victory over Death via His Resurrection.

The LORD Jesus Christ and myself would ask you = How can satan be roaming about seeking whom he may devour if Rev ch20 has
already ocurred?

In Rev ch20 in addition to chains and locked up with a SEAL placed upon him that completely neuters his ability to deceive anyone.

Applying a earthbound prison system run by earthbound sinful men that permits inmates to move within the confined walls and have communication with the outside is COMPLETELY antithetical to Rev ch20

If Rev ch20 has occurred, why has the Second Coming and the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ not ocurred?

This again leaves Amil doctrine as completely antithetical to the CLEAR Prophecy of the Second Coming and the First Resurrection.

This is why the Holy Spirit within me urges you to return to sound doctrine = "It is written"

PEACE and Blessing be upon you in your search of TRUTH = John ch17 "Thy word is Truth"

 

[Davy]

I'm going to start a Thread about why Lord Jesus wants His servants to make a stand for Him DURING the coming tribulation, and actually why we are here during this present world.

 

[PinSeeker]

Not absurd.

Okay, well, we disagree on that, too, then…

That is when Satan would be bound prior to the thief being born.

I mean the dragon was seen prior to the woman giving birth. You think the dragon with 7 heads was bound before the woman gave birth. Now that is absurd. I am not misrepresenting your opinion on parallel viewpoints.

Well, you are, but obviously unintentionally. Or, at the very least, applying your own context, with regard to at least sequence of events, to what I am saying, and that really can’t be done without making what I am saying something very different than what it is.

Here is your binding verse, no?

"But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

Hmm, well, no, actually. I cited (twice, at least, in this thread alone, a passage in Matthew 12, not 24 (among others elsewhere ~ John 12, Colossians 2, Revelation 12), namely:

• "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, 'It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.' Knowing their thoughts, He said to them, 'Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man?'" Matthew 12:24-29; emphasis mine

I did reference Matthew 24 in another post above, but that was in response to something someone else said about Jesus’s ten virgins parable.

Do you not place Jesus as the one breaking into Satan's domain and binding him prior to the NT Covenant?

I do say (repeating myself yet again) that Satan was bound at Jesus’s first coming ~ restricted in his ability to deceive the nations… to prevent the spread of the Gospel… If that’s what you mean, then… okay. With regard to Matthew 12, Jesus is presently “plundering the strong man’s (Satan’s) house,” so, necessarily, the “strong man” (Satan) has been bound, else this would not be possible. Just as Jesus said.

As I said to David, Timtofly, so I would say to you also: At the very least, we should be able to agree that none of what we are talking about here is salvific… no “side” of this makes any of us somehow not (or less) saved, not (or less) in Christ, not (or less) having the Holy Spirit, not (or less) Christian, than anyone else. On the millennium and most other matters regarding John’s Revelation, we can agree to disagree, and that’s… okay.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The LORD Jesus Christ and myself would ask you = How can satan be roaming about seeking whom he may devour if Rev ch20 has
already ocurred?

Chuckles… Are you actually saying Revelation 20 has already occurred? Surely not….

Or are you saying that’s what you hear me to be saying? Again, surely not, at least not in full; but not at all regarding Revelation 20:7-15…

And I surely don’t mean to insult your intelligence or spiritual state in any way, David, but… well, I wouldn’t presume to speak for Jesus, certainly. Wow.

In Rev ch20 in addition to chains and locked up with a SEAL placed upon him that completely neuters his ability to deceive anyone.

Nope. Deceive the nations, as Revelation 20 is crystal clear on, actually verbatim, but exerting influence on individuals is a different thing entirely; that he is able to do.

Applying a earthbound prison system run by earthbound sinful men that permits inmates to move within the confined walls and have communication with the outside is COMPLETELY antithetical to Rev ch20

Oh, my. You may not mean to be, David, but you’re blowing what I said completely out of proportion. Which I guess I should have known you would do. My goodness.

If Rev ch20 has occurred…

I have never ~ never ~ said or insinuated this…

why has the Second Coming and the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ not ocurred?

This again leaves Amil doctrine as completely antithetical to the CLEAR Prophecy of the Second Coming and the First Resurrection.

…so this does not apply and has no merit. Again, no personal disrespect to you intended. I’m just talking about your comment, here.

This is why the Holy Spirit within me urges you to return to sound doctrine = "It is written"

Hmm, well, the Holy Spirit is moving me to disregard the things you have leveled against me.

PEACE and Blessing be upon you in your search of TRUTH = John ch17 "Thy word is Truth"

Thank you, and all the same to you, David. Grace and peace in the name of Christ to you!

 

[PinSeeker]

I'm going to start a Thread about why Lord Jesus wants His servants to make a stand for Him DURING the coming tribulation, and actually why we are here during this present world.

You’re not “making a stand for Him” now, Davy? Um… Uh-oh…

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Davy]

Chuckles… Are you actually saying Revelation 20 has already occurred? Surely not….

Or are you saying that’s what you hear me to be saying? Again, surely not, at least not in full; but not at all regarding Revelation 20:7-15…

And I surely don’t mean to insult your intelligence or spiritual state in any way, David, but… well, I wouldn’t presume to speak for Jesus, certainly. Wow.

I think you're playing games, and that you well understand what he said. I certainly understood what he said about Rev.20.

The Rev.20 chapter, for it to have already be fulfilled, then it would mean Satan is no more, and already having been cast into the future "lake of fire". It would also mean that his time of being literally locked in his pit prison during that "thousand years" by Christ and His elect, would be past history also.

However, ANY idea that ANY PART of Rev.20 has already happened is ludicrous.

Nope. Deceive the nations, as Revelation 20 is crystal clear on, actually verbatim, but exerting influence on individuals is a different thing entirely; that he is able to do.

You insult your own... intelligence with a silly statement like that about Rev.20. The Scripture is very clear...

Rev 20:2-3
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
KJV

The devil will NOT be able to deceive anyone during that whole "thousand years" period. That is what that above Scripture is declaring.

Now if you don't really believe God's Word as written there, as that above declaration is very clear, and no room for other meanings, then that reveals a doubting mentality regarding God's Word. That makes any credibility you might have had fall by the wayside.

 

[David in NJ]

Chuckles… Are you actually saying Revelation 20 has already occurred? Surely not….

Or are you saying that’s what you hear me to be saying? Again, surely not, at least not in full; but not at all regarding Revelation 20:7-15…

And I surely don’t mean to insult your intelligence or spiritual state in any way, David, but… well, I wouldn’t presume to speak for Jesus, certainly. Wow.


Nope. Deceive the nations, as Revelation 20 is crystal clear on, actually verbatim, but exerting influence on individuals is a different thing entirely; that he is able to do.


Oh, my. You may not mean to be, David, but you’re blowing what I said completely out of proportion. Which I guess I should have known you would do. My goodness.


I have never ~ never ~ said or insinuated this…


…so this does not apply and has no merit. Again, no personal disrespect to you intended. I’m just talking about your comment, here.

Hmm, well, the Holy Spirit is moving me to disregard the things you have leveled against me.

Thank you, and all the same to you, David. Grace and peace in the name of Christ to you!

You better SEE what the LORD Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit has to say = Revelation 20:1-6 has NOT occurred as yet.
@PinSeeker believes Revelation 20:1-6 has occurred per erroneous Amil doctrine.

Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of prophecy in this book, because the time is near. 11Let the unrighteous continue to be unrighteous, and the vile continue to be vile; let the righteous continue to practice righteousness, and the holy continue to be holy.”

12“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

14Blessed are those who wash their robes,c so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

Nothing May Be Added or Removed

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints.