A Thanksgiving Special: Who really was Jesus?

[John Zain]

Let us consider the omnipotence, omnipresense, and omniscience of Jesus.

IMO, the church has always said that Jesus was “fully man” and “fully God”.
However, I am not willing to agree with this.
This is not only a technical issue, but a logical one as well.

Consider that it was “the Word” who came from heaven to be manifested on the earth
in the form of a man (John 1:1,14), and consider that He was to be “called” >>> “Jesus”.

IMO, technically, this is who “Jesus” really was: a very unique human indwelt by the Word.
He was the Word, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Christ, the Messiah.

“Jesus” was born of a virgin, and thus did not inherit man’s sin nature,
so how can He be considered “fully man”?

Next, how can a “fully man” (with his inherited sin nature) be “fully God”?

Also, if a man was “fully God”, He would not need the Father and the Holy Spirit to help Him,
and IMO Jesus constantly needed Them both to help Him carry out His mission.
He received His instructions from the Father, and IMO the Holy Spirit performed the miracles!

Yes, He operated in this manner to demonstrate to us how we are to live our lives,
but could He have done all that He did without the help of the Father and the Holy Spirit?
If He could have, then indeed He was “fully God”.

Another consideration is the following:
If you have one of the Triune Godhead, you have Them all (John 14:16-23, etc.).
But, each One of Them has His own level of authority and function.
E.G. Did Father God ever really perform any miracles, or were they done by the Holy Spirit?

In closing, IMO …
the man who was called “Jesus” was not omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!

 

[KingJ]

1. IMO, the church has always said that Jesus was “fully man” and “fully God”.

However, I am not willing to agree with this.

Then why are you a Christian? Jesus has to be or we can't be grafted into the Vine.


2. Next, how can a “fully man” (with his inherited sin nature) be “fully God”?

Your understanding of 'inherited sin nature' is simply silly / wrong. Babies go to heaven when they die because they...have...no sin.

3. He would not need the Father and the Holy Spirit to help Him, IMO Jesus constantly needed Them both to help Him carry out His mission.

No He didn't. The most trying event is proof of that Luke 22:42.

4. E.G. Did Father God ever really perform any miracles, or were they done by the Holy Spirit.

God the Son did them. No need for them to be done by God the Holy Spirit....when God the Son is with us.

5. In closing, IMO …
the man who was called “Jesus” was not omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.

Jesus did not go to John? Jesus did not prophecy / share parables of the future / unknown? Jesus did not know what He was doing on earth? Jesus did not rise from the dead?

IMO, you are not using lateral thought or a spiritual mind to interpret scripture. Or you are smoking something today as this doesn't sound like you .

 

[John Zain]

1. IMO, the church has always said that Jesus was “fully man” and “fully God”.

However, I am not willing to agree with this.

Then why are you a Christian? Jesus has to be or we can't be grafted into the Vine.

Allow me at this time to just address your point 1.

IMO, Father God could have easily agreed to forgive mankind ...
IF a sinless substitute (who was not God) were to die in Adam's place.

IMO, it was not necessary that GOD die for us!
That was just an additional incredible demonstration of His great love for mankind!

It was/is all about ...
A sinless substitute was produced to die for all of the sins of mankind!

And all Three of the Triune Godhead were heavily involved in producing this Person.

God did not have to die for our sins ... a sinless human had to die for our sins.

 

[truthquest]

I seem to recall Jesus asked his disciples this question. Matt. 16:13 But when Yeshua came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "What is it people say about me that I The Son of Man am?" 14 But they said, " Some say Yohannan The Baptizer, but others Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of The Prophets." 15 But he said to them, "Who is it you say that I am?" 16 Shimeon Kaypha answered, "You are The Messiah, The Son of THE LIVING GOD". 17 Yeshua answered and said to him, "You are Blessed, Shimeon Bar Yona*, because flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in Heaven." (Aramaic bible)

 

[John Zain]

I seem to recall Jesus asked his disciples this question. Matt. 16:13 But when Yeshua came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "What is it people say about me that I The Son of Man am?" 14 But they said, " Some say Yohannan The Baptizer, but others Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of The Prophets." 15 But he said to them, "Who is it you say that I am?" 16 Shimeon Kaypha answered, "You are The Messiah, The Son of THE LIVING GOD". 17 Yeshua answered and said to him, "You are Blessed, Shimeon Bar Yona*, because flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in Heaven." (Aramaic bible)

Yes, of course, we should all realize that Jesus Christ was "the Word",
who is the Second Person of the Triune Godhead.
(At least, the God part of the God-man was "the Word".)
And "the Word" is the One who came from heaven
and dwelt on earth for 33 years in a human body.

 

[Johnlove]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus personally told me he is God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Also Jesus was conceived by God, and no other man has been conceived by God, that we know of.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 17:50 “While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered ...when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 1: 18-20) “This is how Jesus Christ came to be born. His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph; but before they came to live together she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Her husband Joseph, being an upright man and wanting to spare her disgrace, decided to divorce her informally. He had made up his mind to do this when suddenly the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, 'Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because she has conceived what is in her by the Holy Spirit.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Personally I don’t believe anyone who does not know Jesus as his Lord and God, is not a Christian. And there is no way such a person could ever be given the Holy Spirit. [/SIZE]

 

[John Zain]

[SIZE=16pt]Personally I don’t believe anyone who does not know Jesus as his Lord and God, is <not> a Christian. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]And there is no way such a person could ever be given the Holy Spirit. [/SIZE]

It is quite an interesting question ...

Does one need to believe that Jesus is God
... not just the Son of God, but actually God
... to be saved and given eternal life?

Some Christians just cannot affirm that "Jesus is God".
All they can say is, "Jesus is the Son of God",
which is blatantly obvious since Scripture states this so often.

The only Scripture I have found, which even hints at this is:
"... for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." (John 8:24)

Please note: there is no "He" after "I AM" in the original Greek.

 

[Johnlove]

It is quite an interesting question ...

Does one need to believe that Jesus is God
... not just the Son of God, but actually God
... to be saved and given eternal life?

Some Christians just cannot affirm that "Jesus is God".
All they can say is, "Jesus is the Son of God",
which is blatantly obvious since Scripture states this so often.

The only Scripture I have found, which even hints at this is:
"... for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." (John 8:24)

Please note: there is no "He" after "I AM" in the original Greek.

[SIZE=16pt]Scripture says Jesus is God, but those who don’t believe that also don’t believe the bible is the written Word of God. Those people will believe their human logic, and will never come to the truth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Those who don’t believe Jesus is God and are those who have not been called by God to be his people.[/SIZE]

 

[aspen]

Jesus is God's heart broken on the Cross for us to understand how our betrayal in the Garden affected Him and how much He still wants to be in relationship with us.

 

[JimParker]

Let us consider the omnipotence, omnipresense, and omniscience of Jesus.

IMO, the church has always said that Jesus was “fully man” and “fully God”.
However, I am not willing to agree with this.
This is not only a technical issue, but a logical one as well.

Consider that it was “the Word” who came from heaven to be manifested on the earth
in the form of a man (John 1:1,14), and consider that He was to be “called” >>> “Jesus”.

IMO, technically, this is who “Jesus” really was: a very unique human indwelt by the Word.
He was the Word, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Christ, the Messiah.

“Jesus” was born of a virgin, and thus did not inherit man’s sin nature,
so how can He be considered “fully man”?

Next, how can a “fully man” (with his inherited sin nature) be “fully God”?

Also, if a man was “fully God”, He would not need the Father and the Holy Spirit to help Him,
and IMO Jesus constantly needed Them both to help Him carry out His mission.
He received His instructions from the Father, and IMO the Holy Spirit performed the miracles!

Yes, He operated in this manner to demonstrate to us how we are to live our lives,
but could He have done all that He did without the help of the Father and the Holy Spirit?
If He could have, then indeed He was “fully God”.

Another consideration is the following:
If you have one of the Triune Godhead, you have Them all (John 14:16-23, etc.).
But, each One of Them has His own level of authority and function.
E.G. Did Father God ever really perform any miracles, or were they done by the Holy Spirit?

In closing, IMO …
the man who was called “Jesus” was not omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!

<< IMO, technically, this is who “Jesus” really was: a very unique human indwelt by the Word.
He was the Word, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Christ, the Messiah.>>

That is the heresy of Nestorius. You can look on line to find out what his teaching was and the controversy which resulted and was the subject of the counsel of Chalcedon.

In order for Jesus to defeat the power of death to hold mankind. (We shall all be raised.) He had to be both man and God.

He had to die as a human being who had no sin for which he should be required to die. He couldn't die in an accident or by sickness or by old age. He had to be unjustly put to death and be raised again from the dead.

John's gospel says that the word (λόγος/logos) was (εἰμί/eimi) God.(θεός/theos) (John 1:1)

John also said that the word (λόγος/logos) became (γίνομαι/ginomai) flesh.(σάρξ sarx) (John 1:14)

The word translated "became" (ginomai) refers to a state of being. The word used to refer to indwelling is oikeō (οἰκέω).

The language does not permit the understanding of a man being indwelt by God.

Essentially, if Jesus was not wholly God and wholly man then no one can be saved.

Another consideration is the following:
If you have one of the Triune Godhead, you have Them all (John 14:16-23, etc.).

Jesus is the God-man by nature. We, as believers, having the Holy Spirit, (and the Father and the Son [John 17:23) are God-bearing men and women.

E.G. Did Father God ever really perform any miracles, or were they done by the Holy Spirit?

Consider the miracle of creation:

Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.

and

Col 1:15-16 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.