A very simple question.

[bbyrd009]

Demons believe Jesus is their savior?

19You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe — and they shudder.
29Suddenly they shouted, "What do You have to do with us, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

well they obviously believe something, Heb; it is you that is forcing "belief" into "their Savior" it seems to me. Those who cry "Lord, Lord" def seem to believe that "Jesus" is their Savior, yes. So let's discuss them, perhaps.

We believe in the finished work of the cross.

Who is this "We," Heb? Aren't "We" just the ones who have made an arbitrary division so as to, ultimately, exclude a "They?" Define your "We" if you would, so that i can cross examine them in your presence, and "we"--the real we--can see more clearly who this "We" is, ok? Do you imagine that any of these "We" will be standing behind you at judgement?

It's finished, so why are u trying to save yourself?

Wouldn't you be better advised to contemplate James, rather than try and characterize me as "trying to save myself?" James is Scripture, after all, whereas i am not. Let me make it easy for you, in that regard; "We are just deceived, over here," ok? Yes, "It" is finished, but that will not help you if you have a bad def of "It," i guess. So are you telling me that James just got "It" wrong? Or what exactly?

 

[bbyrd009]

well, one will do, or whichever convinced you that you have already been clothed in this dress or garment, iow.

whichever verses support this, iow, ty.

where you at here, Sword.

 

[H. Richard]

19You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe — and they shudder.
29Suddenly they shouted, "What do You have to do with us, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

well they obviously believe something, Heb; it is you that is forcing "belief" into "their Savior" it seems to me. Those who cry "Lord, Lord" def seem to believe that "Jesus" is their Savior, yes. So let's discuss them, perhaps.

Who is this "We," Heb? Aren't "We" just the ones who have made an arbitrary division so as to, ultimately, exclude a "They?" Define your "We" if you would, so that i can cross examine them in your presence, and "we"--the real we--can see more clearly who this "We" is, ok? Do you imagine that any of these "We" will be standing behind you at judgement?

Wouldn't you be better advised to contemplate James, rather than try and characterize me as "trying to save myself?" James is Scripture, after all, whereas i am not. Let me make it easy for you, in that regard; "We are just deceived, over here," ok? Yes, "It" is finished, but that will not help you if you have a bad def of "It," i guess. So are you telling me that James just got "It" wrong? Or what exactly?

***
Why do religious people use James to put those under grace under the law. Are they blind to James 1:1? Yes they are. Even though the Holy Spirit told James to write James 1:1 they refuse to accept that James was writing to the Jews who were under the Law. In Acts 21.20 we see that James is still teaching that the Jews were still under the law.

 

[Sword]

where you at here, Sword.

I got bored again. whats the question. I am the bride of Christ and I see my self in the mirror as His beautifhl bride. He loves me died for me anfd I am His bride as in the church. So we should look in the mirror see our selves as beutifull. I have a wedding dress, but right now I still have my combat boots on. Capich?

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, but the question was "how do you know you have this dress?" Don't those who cry "Lord, Lord" claim to have this dress too?

***
Why do religious people use James to put those under grace under the law. Are they blind to James 1:1? Yes they are. Even though the Holy Spirit told James to write James 1:1 they refuse to accept that James was writing to the Jews who were under the Law. In Acts 21.20 we see that James is still teaching that the Jews were still under the law.

and you think this justifies you ignoring the rest of James, is that what you are saying? Convenient, at least.

 

[Heb 13:8]

well they obviously believe something, Heb; it is you that is forcing "belief" into "their Savior" it seems to me. Those who cry "Lord, Lord" def seem to believe that "Jesus" is their Savior, yes. So let's discuss them, perhaps.

Demons have the knowledge of the Lord, similar to the nonbelievers in Rom 1:18-32 and also Catholics and Jehovah Witnesses. They know the scriptures well, they even cut out parts that don't suit them. But their hearts are far from God, they are not born again. Demons will never accept Jesus as their savior. Jesus in Matt 7:21-23 is talking to the crowd in His time, before resurrection and the seal of God.

Who is this "We," Heb? Aren't "We" just the ones who have made an arbitrary division so as to, ultimately, exclude a "They?" Define your "We" if you would, so that i can cross examine them in your presence, and "we"--the real we--can see more clearly who this "We" is, ok? Do you imagine that any of these "We" will be standing behind you at judgement?

We, as in born again Christians. The born again crowd and the non born again crowd go to two separate judgment seats.

rather than try and characterize me as "trying to save myself?"

ok? Yes, "It" is finished, but that will not help you

Isn't that what you're doing, saving yourself. It is finished, but but but...

the finished work of the cross won't help me?

ok, but the question was "how do you know you have this dress?" Don't those who cry "Lord, Lord" claim to have this dress too?

Jesus in Matt 7:21-23 is talking to the crowd in His time, before resurrection and the seal of God. How many christians do you know in 2017 that are driving out demons and performing miracles? They're all asleep, shopping at the mall, working their 9-5 jobs, fighting on forums and watching american idol.

and you think this justifies you ignoring the rest of James, is that what you are saying? Convenient, at least.

Richard is simply stating a fact of life. The religious constantly put true believers back under the law when we are no longer a part of the law. We are under Grace.

 

[Sword]

ok, but the question was "how do you know you have this dress?" Don't those who cry "Lord, Lord" claim to have this dress too?
and you think this justifies you ignoring the rest of James, is that what you are saying? Convenient, at least.

No there atire is as guests. And one guy was not even dressed as a guest I am not a guest. I am the bride. Do you call it metaforicly speaking?

 

[bbyrd009]

the finished work of the cross won't help me?

not if you don't avail yourself of it, of course not. You point to Nehushtan worship, believing that looking to a Snake on a Pole will "save" you with this, imo. No picking up of your own cross required. You will be judged for your works, according to Rev. You must forgive if you want to be forgiven. You must confess your sins one to another if you want to be forgiven. These are not optional, regardless of what your pastor is telling you, sorry.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus in Matt 7:21-23 is talking to the crowd in His time, before resurrection and the seal of God. How many christians do you know in 2017 that are driving out demons and performing miracles? They're all asleep, shopping at the mall, working their 9-5 jobs, fighting on forums and watching american idol.

what does any of that have to do with the question, again? Sorry, but i am not following.

ok, but the question was "how do you know you have this dress?" Don't those who cry "Lord, Lord" claim to have this dress too?

 

[bbyrd009]

Richard is simply stating a fact of life. The religious constantly put true believers back under the law when we are no longer a part of the law. We are under Grace.

Grace fulfills the Law, however, and no one is excused from the tiniest little bit of the Law. You must fulfill the Law. As for what the religious do, so what. The religious claim "grace" too. You are not under Grace if you do not avail yourself of Grace. These are "hypocrites."

 

[bbyrd009]

No there atire is as guests. And one guy was not even dressed as a guest I am not a guest. I am the bride. Do you call it metaforicly speaking?

yes, ok, fine, metaphorically speaking. Hitler claimed to be following Christ, too, so what.

 

[bbyrd009]

We, as in born again Christians. The born again crowd and the non born again crowd go to two separate judgment seats.

ya i remember this baloney, and i am aware of the justification. You have been invited into a logical "either/or" trap, and can only perceive yourself as already having a dress because, after all, who judges themselves to be deficient? Don't be a sucker. You have to change your mind to be born again. "We" all yearn to be in the "in" crowd, and so naturally a bunch of wolves will sell you what you want to hear, which is "all you have to do is believe; really hard though, and finger-crossies don't count."

Of course your pastor has never told you about Nehushtan--for fear of being found out--if he even knows about him, which he likely does not. False wheat is a powerful drug precisely because it caters to our fondest desires imo. No doubt you even have some requirements that you deem compulsory in order to be considered one of these "born again" people? Let's hear them then.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You will be judged for your works, according to Rev.

Right, and you will be judged for your belief. Always remember, in this world it's not what you do, it's who you know.

You must fulfill the Law.

which nobody can do. why do you think God became flesh and died on a cross.

The religious claim "grace" too.

Actually they don't. they try to earn grace.

You are not under Grace if you do not avail yourself of Grace.

No, we are under Grace because of what Jesus did on the cross. Trying to earn grace is a one way ticket to hell.

You have to change your mind to be born again.

Change your mind about what bbyrd? What about your heart..

Rom 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

No doubt you even have some requirements that you deem compulsory in order to be considered one of these "born again" people? Let's hear them then.

The only requirements to be born again is to confess and believe. Rom 10:9-10.

 

[OzSpen]

4. This is the verse THAT CLINCHES THE ANSWER TO THIS TOPIC. It states that the gift of tongues is NOT for everyone and it is found in 1 Cor 12:30, part of which reads, 'Do all speak with tongues? Therefore, Paul clearly teaches that NOT ALL will speak in tongues.

5. However, it is his desire that 'I want you all to speak in tongues' (1 Cor 14:5). But we know from that the Spirit does not give tongues to all. He also stated that 'I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you' (1 Cor 14:18).



So paul speaking for God said I want you all speaking in tougnes. So its God who said I WANT YOU ALL SPEAKING IN TOUNGES.

Then Paul speaking for God asked a question. Do all speak with tounges? The very very obvious answer is NO. They dont.

So why does the question asked By paul superseed, What God said He wanted for everyone? Paul merely stated a fact . You dont, But God wants you to have it.
I dont see how a question turns it in to a no for you.

So all the scriptures that say ask for anything and I will do it mean nothing to you. If God says I want you to talk in tounges and you say Ok Lord I want to talk in tounges. You are saying you might or might not get it, depends on the Holy Spirit if He things yes or no. So God and the Holy Spoirirt dont want the same thing You are saying. This is crazy blindness. and totally makes no sense what so ever. Total confusion.

God says I want you to have tounges and Then The Holy Ghost contadicts God and says maybe I will and maybe I wont who know. Total confusion

Sword,

The confusion seems to be yours.

• Paul through the inspiration of the Spirit did NOT say, 'You will all speak in tongues'. He said: 'Now I want you all to speak in tongues' (1 Cor 14:5 ESV). 'I want you all' does NOT MEAN, 'You will all'.
• The Greek language in I Cor 12:29 asks, 'Do all speak with tongues?' The nature of the Greek construction is that the answer is NO.
• Therefore, 1 Cor 12:29 is not in conflict with 1 Cor 14:5.

Would you please learn to spell 'tongues'? Is is not 'tounges'. It is not 'superseed' but 'supersede'. It is not 'Spoirirt' but 'Spirit'. It is not 'contadicts' but 'contradicts'.

Instead of spoofing at my education, I suggest that you consider what Paul taught under the inspiration of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12-14. The human body has diverse members, just as there is a diversity of gifts in the body of Christ. My gift is different from yours. Therefore, there is no need for you to ridicule my education and make your lack of education sound superior.

In the grace of Jesus,
Oz

 

[H. Richard]

ok, but the question was "how do you know you have this dress?" Don't those who cry "Lord, Lord" claim to have this dress too?
and you think this justifies you ignoring the rest of James, is that what you are saying? Convenient, at least.

***
2 Tim 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
NKJV

If it was meant to be to the Gentiles too then the Holy Spirit would not have said it was to the Jews only. The book of James was writen to the Jews who were under the law of Moses. I take it you wish to be under the law of Moses too. Remember this verse?


James 2:9-10
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
NKJV

So you want to be under the law?

The children of God have been set free from the condemnation of the Law. But the religious just refuse to believe it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Right, and you will be judged for your belief. Always remember, in this world it's not what you do, it's who you know.

then it seems to me that James would make you pretty uncomfortable, i guess. As well as the many supporting passages, "Love...believes all things..." "Don't be deceived, those who practice doing right are the righteous," on and on. And on. You will have to conflate beliefs (laqach) with faith (pistis), and the lesson of Job's sin will also not be understood.

which nobody can do. why do you think God became flesh and died on a cross.

Nobody can apologize when they are wrong? Nobody can confess their mistakes out loud, in the same venue where they committed them, and admit that the other person was right, and profess a desire to rebound in the future, going forward? I hope you remember this convo come Sept 25th, lol, when you will be given the opportunity to manifest it in living color.
Then what good is belief? See why tax collectors and prostitutes beat the religious into the kingdom.

Actually they don't. they try to earn grace.

Funny, seems exactly the opposite to me. Imo you are conflating attempting to earn salvation via altar works with doing good deeds from the heart, wherein the former are condemned while the latter are encouraged, even required. In many, many places, not just James.

The "religious" are trying to "earn" grace via what actions, in your estimation? The very ones that you are claiming afford us salvation, it seems to me. your argument does not even make logical sense.

12But the law is not based on faith; instead, the one who does these things will live by them.
21Is the law therefore contrary to God's promises? Absolutely not!

No, we are under Grace because of what Jesus did on the cross. Trying to earn grace is a one way ticket to hell.

yes, and you may certainly take that to mean that all you need do is look to Jesus like a Snake on a Pole for your salvation, if you like, ok. I am not suggesting that you can earn Grace. You are not forced to pick up your cross and follow, either. But i am saying that you have likely never even heard of Nehushtan, and you will almost certainly never hear the name said from a pulpit.

Change your mind about what bbyrd? What about your heart..

now we are leaving the interminable "faith v works" debate, and entering a semantics discussion on "mind v heart," which wadr is just another religious flip-flop, a similar pointless distraction, as the heart is acknowledged to be a reference to the mind in a different aspect http://biblehub.com/hebrew/3820.htm. The verse is "change your mind" so i will stick with "change your mind," and you can do or think whatever you like, and just rip James and the many supporting passages from your Bible, if you like too.

Rom 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.


The only requirements to be born again is to confess and believe. Rom 10:9-10.

Ok no problem, you can certainly read that that way if you like, and believe that you can accept Christ with your mouth if you want, no hating your life or picking up your cross required, whew that's a relief huh. Now all you maybe have to do is differentiate yourself from those who cry "Lord." Or better yet, just don't read that part, either, and you're all set i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

***
2 Tim 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
NKJV

If it was meant to be to the Gentiles too then the Holy Spirit would not have said it was to the Jews only.

and where did the Spirit say this, again? You neglected to quote it, ty.

 

[bbyrd009]

Were there any Christians who were not former Jews, practically speaking? Aside from the odd one or two, iow?

Is it not being acknowledged that we all descend from the "12 tribes" here, that "12 tribes" is also a euphemism, or is it strictly the desire to believe what some wolves have taught you that blinds you?

You really think that James does not apply to you because you cannot trace your lineage through any of the 12 tribes? Actually "cannot" is a misnomer, surely, as i am confident that neither of you have tried, and if i sent you a link to a free test you would not take it.

Lol. you do not even know any of the names of your great-grandparents, almost surely.

Clamping your hands over your ears and going "LALALALALA" would at least be honest, gentlemen.

 

[Heb 13:8]

you are conflating attempting to earn salvation via altar works with doing good deeds from the heart,

How can I earn something that's already been completed? I'm not the one in fear of losing my salvation or going to hell.

 

[bbyrd009]

How can I earn something that's already been completed? I'm not the one in fear of losing my salvation or going to hell.

i would only encourage that you keep an open mind where this "completed" concept is concerned, the slaves walked through the door of blood out of Egypt Free Men, a million strong; but only 2 made it in ok. So apparently relying on "completed" in that sense might possibly be premature.

Yes, Christ has done all He has to do; but see how this clashes with your belief in Rapture? Now He has to do something else. How much are you going to like the answer when it is be herenow and carryyourcross (and understand the lesson of Esau)

it seems to me you are forced to ignore a lot more than just James with this, this ersatz faith/works division that is imagined, when yes, sorry, but it is abundantly obvious that you have to do stuff 27A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision.

you must fulfill the law.