A very simple question.

[brionne]

Hello I have been involved in a debate in the testimony forum. Testimonial Forum

Its getting out of hand and like most disccussions it has grown all out of proportion.

This is the heart of the discussion,

Are tounges for all its really simple yes or no question if you know the scriptures in reguard to tounges.

We Have one side of the debate saying God Does Not Want All Speaking In Tounges. And uses this verse as proof.

Proof being that clearly all dont have these gifts

1Cor 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?


The other side quotes this verse

1Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues,

Proof being clearly stated what God/Paul wants for all.

So I would like to ask the learned people the leaders Or at the very least the staff who run the site.forum. The people who are prepared to stand on the day of Judgement and face God. James 3:1/ My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
This is for misteaching Gods word.

This is not about who right and whos wrong. This is about truth of Gods word.

Thank you

I would say that speaking in different tongues/languages was only for a time. Its served its purpose just as other miraculous gifts in the first century served their purpose. But they are not what christianity is about, nor what christianity should be focusing on.
1Cor 13:8... all the gifts would cease or be done away with and the only gift that would remain among Christians would be Love.

 

[Angelina]

No it isn't. I'm from a Pentecostal Trinitarian background and speaking in tongues has not changed. The gift of tongues is as it has always been just like all the other gifts that God gives out through the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that God removes gifts because If he did, we'd be in some trouble...

 

[Heb 13:8]

i would only encourage that you keep an open mind where this "completed" concept is concerned, the slaves walked through the door of blood out of Egypt Free Men, a million strong; but only 2 made it in ok. So apparently relying on "completed" in that sense might possibly be premature.

John 6:35-40 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Yes, Christ has done all He has to do; but see how this clashes with your belief in Rapture? Now He has to do something else.

The rapture is a part of God's plan bbyrd.

How much are you going to like the answer when it is be herenow and carryyourcross (and understand the lesson of Esau)

Esau existed before resurrection and Pentecost, before the seal of God.

it seems to me you are forced to ignore a lot more than just James with this, this ersatz faith/works division that is imagined, when yes, sorry,

I ignore James because non-osas twists scripture to fit their agenda.

but it is abundantly obvious that you have to do stuff

No you don't have to do anything but believe bbyrd, just like the thief on the cross. Luke 23:42-43.

you must fulfill the law.

 

[Sword]

I would say that speaking in different tongues/languages was only for a time. Its served its purpose just as other miraculous gifts in the first century served their purpose. But they are not what christianity is about, nor what christianity should be focusing on.
1Cor 13:8... all the gifts would cease or be done away with and the only gift that would remain among Christians would be Love.

So what should we focus on? with out any gifts?

 

[bbyrd009]

How can I earn something that's already been completed? I'm not the one in fear of losing my salvation or going to hell.

also the point was that although you may have been assured by some people that you are now "saved," you initially were drawn out of a fear of hell, and a desire to know where you might spend "eternity." So now God is engaged in manifesting heaven on earth, while you might be characterized as being obsessed with where you are going after you die.

So then you become a buyer, and sellers will naturally arise to fulfill the desires of buyers. It then becomes child's play to quote to you certain parts of the Book, while neglecting some other parts, so as to reinforce the perception that the answer you have gotten is the correct one, when it may not be.

Reading the Book from a logical pov is confusing, and so we naturally are led to those who are commended by others for their logical understanding of Scripture, perhaps not pausing to imagine how these teachers came to their grasp of the Book, which was almost always from the same perspective; other perspectives are not tolerated.

And, being that we now require an answer to be satisfied, we overlook when their logical arguments fail in some regard, and we are assured "only believe." And if you keep questioning, well then you just do not have faith.

 

[bbyrd009]

John 6:35-40 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Yes Christ is obviously referring to some people here, and you are led to a logical assumption that you are now one of these, because of ______, whatever that may be, usually a conviction that the altar works you have accomplished qualify you to be commended, or that since you really believe, not like those who fake believe--whatever the difference is there--you can now include yourself in this group, despite other Scripture that suggests differently, which you now cannot even read or discuss, as has been demonstrated. Having been denied the lesson of Nehushtan in your formative period, Nehushtan cannot now even be contemplated from your personal pov, see. Like Esau, it becomes a story that does not, can not apply, and is talking about someone else. (Anyone else, but me!)

The rapture is a part of God's plan bbyrd.

well at least you hope it is, but you cannot even discuss Ezekiel's "pillows" and "soft landings," or the Early Church in Acts who believed the same thing, and abandoned their wordly lives in anticipation of Christ's "return," or even how the argument logically fails if you are the Body of Christ, and already saved right now.

Esau existed before resurrection and Pentecost, before the seal of God.

so then by all means just skim over that part, because after all you are encouraged to relate yourself to Jacob anyway, right, being as how you are assured that you are already saved, even though you are Waiting on Jesus to come save you again.

Those parts of the Bible are surely only for "lost" people, who nonetheless will not read It.

I ignore James because non-osas twists scripture to fit their agenda.

which is moot if you are yet to be "once saved" imo, but regardless of that--or because of that--see that i am only encouraging you to keep an open mind there, come to your own understanding of James, and recognize that ignoring James because he does not fit with your premises is denying Scripture, the same way you had to become blind to other Scripture to believe that you are saved, right now.

No you don't have to do anything but believe bbyrd, just like the thief on the cross. Luke 23:42-43.

The Thief demonstrated remorse publicly, something you will have the opportunity to emulate come Sept 24th, wherein you might see that what is supposedly so easy is actually a very hard thing to do.

When you put yourself in a position of knowing something that is not true, the same mechanism that led you to believe that you know will function to keep you from seeing even then. And the results are inevitably disastrous, ok? Not only is this divining that you have accepted directly against Scripture--in many places, i could list several passages--it can only destroy your faith, if it does not come to pass.

Why put yourself in this position? See that the answer to this is clear also, as clear as it is that those who assure you that the Book is clear to them are deceived. You are claiming to know something that the Book says you cannot know, just like they do. This is false wheat, or tares, and it is a powerful and prevalent crop, that we are told to "allow" to grow up beside the wheat, imo.

2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know

tells you that you may reliably ignore anyone who claims some knowledge about tomorrow--or anything else for that matter--that you do not have. They are not being intentionally evil, it is just that they are serving a market, a desire that people manifest, that is not served by the truth, or pointed questions.

People want to know, and will not accept not knowing. We require facts.

 

[Angelina]

If you think about it. All the gifts given out during the days of Pentecost through the Holy Spirit and afterward were for the purpose of the gospel message to be spread and preached across the planet. God's purpose has not changed. The gift of tongues is still relevant today as it has always been because it can cut through culture barriers and enables different languages and tongues to understand what the Spirit of the Lord is saying to their heart through the preaching of the message. Faith comes from hearing, and hearing the Word of God. The gift of tongues is not just something spoken in the churches.

 

[aspen]

Listening is more profitable than speaking

 

[Heb 13:8]

And if you keep questioning, well then you just do not have faith.

That's right, you don't.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Yes Christ is obviously referring to some people here, and you are led to a logical assumption that you are now one of these, because of ______, whatever that may be, usually a conviction that the altar works you have accomplished qualify you to be commended, or that since you really believe, not like those who fake believe

Notice the word "believe" is mentioned 5 times in John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30. What are we believing in bbyrd?

well at least you hope it is,

lol, well actually the rapture is titled "the blessed hope", so ya all believers put their hope in the rapture. In the air and to God's throne, 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5.

so then by all means just skim over that part, because after all you are encouraged to relate yourself to Jacob anyway, right, being as how you are assured that you are already saved, even though you are Waiting on Jesus to come save you again. Those parts of the Bible are surely only for "lost" people, who nonetheless will not read It.

Come save us again? Well of course, why do you think the red dragon is coming? If we weren't raptured, the dragon would devour us. Notice the word "teknon" is added twice here. Do you have eyes to see?...

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

We require facts.

John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Heb 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

 

[mjrhealth]

And if you keep questioning, well then you just do not have faith.

If one had ant faith they would be questioning God all teh time, just like a child,

Why dad why, why dad does teh sun rise and set, why dad does teh sea rise and fall with teh moon, why dad where we put on this earth. whe nGod tells you to stop trying to figure Him out than you have asked to many question.

In all His love

 

[bbyrd009]

That's right, you don't.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.



Notice the word "believe" is mentioned 5 times in John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30. What are we believing in bbyrd?

imo this is revealed by what one refuses to face. We are told that tares, or "false wheat," will grow up with the wheat, so rather than try and pointlessly disabuse you of your current beliefs, i would only suggest that you identify those who teach falsehood for yourself; and if those are to you the ones who advocate that you are the Body of Christ, and that you may meet Him in the air whenever you recognize the kingdom, right beside you, right now, then so be it. Imo you are lucky, in that you have determined a fast-approaching date for verification of your beliefs, and this conversation will best be continued come Sept 25th.

lol, well actually the rapture is titled "the blessed hope", so ya all believers put their hope in the rapture. In the air and to God's throne, 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5.

Ya, no, all believers do not, and you are surely drunk on the false wheat, and all believers might currently reliably listen to your interpretations of Scripture, and run the other way imo. What might be most helpful is if you gave a brief testimony of how you came to your current beliefs, so that others might be warned, being as how you are so coy on your profile page. Fwiw as far as i know this might not reflect the state of your heart at all, i don't know. I believe all kinds of things that i wouldn't share here, i guess.

Come save us again? Well of course, why do you think the red dragon is coming? If we weren't raptured, the dragon would devour us. Notice the word "teknon" is added twice here. Do you have eyes to see?...

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.



John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Heb 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

K, well we'll just "see" how you feel about this come Sept, when you do not "see" Jesus on His White Horse, and your beliefs are revealed for what they are. Hey, for all i know i will be the one apologizing then, who knows. But unfortunately experience has taught me that you will not be here anymore come then, and no one will know where you have gone, you will have dropped off the edge of the earth.

And i guess i am making this sound ominous, when imo it is the best thing that could possibly happen to you. You might then realize that God does not care what you believe; God requires that you have faith. I can tell you that when you are in free-fall, and cannot even look your wife in the eye, the first thing that you clutch on to defines what you really believe, in a way. At least you have 5 months to put your affairs in order; i would be taking advantage of that. By which i do not mean be that you should be maxxing out all of your credit cards--well, the ones that aren't already maxxed, i guess, if there even are any--which i have seen a couple times lol. Bad idea, ok? At least if you care about a credit rating, and you seem like the type that does.

 

[bbyrd009]

If one had ant faith they would be questioning God all teh time, just like a child,

Why dad why, why dad does teh sun rise and set, why dad does teh sea rise and fall with teh moon, why dad where we put on this earth. whe nGod tells you to stop trying to figure Him out than you have asked to many question.

In all His love

Word. It is always men that tell you not to question, not God.

 

[tabletalk]

I can tell you that when you are in free-fall, and cannot even look your wife in the eye, the first thing that you clutch on to defines what you really believe, in a way.

I think you hit the head on the nail.

 

[ScottA]

Hello I have been involved in a debate in the testimony forum. Testimonial Forum

Its getting out of hand and like most disccussions it has grown all out of proportion.

This is the heart of the discussion,

Are tounges for all its really simple yes or no question if you know the scriptures in reguard to tounges.

We Have one side of the debate saying God Does Not Want All Speaking In Tounges. And uses this verse as proof.

Proof being that clearly all dont have these gifts

1Cor 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?


The other side quotes this verse

1Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues,

Proof being clearly stated what God/Paul wants for all.

So I would like to ask the learned people the leaders Or at the very least the staff who run the site.forum. The people who are prepared to stand on the day of Judgement and face God. James 3:1/ My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
This is for misteaching Gods word.

This is not about who right and whos wrong. This is about truth of Gods word.

Thank you

No.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Imo you are lucky, in that you have determined a fast-approaching date for verification of your beliefs, and this conversation will best be continued come Sept 25th.

By then it'll be too late. Why risk it?

Matt 24:37-39 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

We are told that tares, or "false wheat," will grow up with the wheat, so rather than try and pointlessly disabuse you of your current beliefs, i would only suggest that you identify those who teach falsehood for yourself; and if those are to you the ones who advocate that you are the Body of Christ,

False wheat certainly do not preach Grace salvation and the finished work of the cross.

Ya, no, all believers do not, and you are surely drunk on the false wheat, and all believers might currently reliably listen to your interpretations of Scripture, and run the other way imo.

Not all believers look forward to the rapture? Well they should, it's their eternal state. Jesus talks about those who are asleep to His coming..

Matt 24:37-39 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

1 Thess 5:1-8 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

Rev 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

You might then realize that God does not care what you believe; God requires that you have faith.

Of course He does. Believing is having faith. They are the same thing bbyrd. What are we believing in?? Did Abram not have faith..

Gen 15:6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

1 Cor 15:12:19 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

1 John 5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

At least you have 5 months to put your affairs in order;

I would think those who deny and are asleep to the Rev 12 sign need to put their affairs in order, no? It's a dangerous place to be in, not knowing if you have eternal life?

 

[brionne]

So what should we focus on? with out any gifts?

The good thing is we are not left in the dark as to what the focus should be...the bible tells us

1 Cor 13:8-13 Paul explains it very well. The gifts were given because christianity was in its infancy and their faith was not strong. Paul said they were 'babes' and they had 'partial knowledge' and saw things in a 'hazy' way. They needed gifts to convince others, and themselves, that what they were now preaching was from God. Even Jesus used gifts to show people that he was sent by God and had Gods backing.

But eventually, they would have enough faith and knowledge to not need such displays. And when that was the case, all that would remain would be 'love'

So the focus of Christianity should be love of neigbour and love of God... practicing Love fulfills the law for Jesus said that all of Gods law comes down to Love. If we are practicing love, we are living as christians and will have Gods approval.

 

[Sword]

But eventually, they would have enough faith and knowledge to not need such displays. And when that was the case, all that would remain would be 'love'

Faith in what? what is the commison and how do you do the commision on a daily basis?
And what has been the sucsees rate?

 

[mjrhealth]

Faith in what? what is the commison and how do you do the commision on a daily basis?
And what has been the sucsees rate?

Faith in Jesus Christ, thats what saves, As for teh comission, thats certainly not for every one. Not all men are called and not all men are chosen. Its enough to do God will hand belive teh one who is our saviour.

 

[Sword]

Faith in Jesus Christ, thats what saves, As for teh comission, thats certainly not for every one. Not all men are called and not all men are chosen. Its enough to do God will hand belive teh one who is our saviour.

You have so missed the whole meaning of good news.
I cant believe what I am reading here. So you run to Jesus Lord forgive me. I want to go to heaven and thansk that I dont have to do nothing. I dont have to tell others as I am not called to that. I dont have to lay hands on the sick as you never asked me to do that. I can just take bits of scripture that sounds good for me and run with that.

It looks like to me you just joined up to go to heaven? But I believe thats the case for most.

HOW WILL THEY KNOW LEAST SOMEONE TELLS THEM? That would be YOU unless you were not called to that either?

 

[Sword]

So the focus of Christianity should be love of neigbour and love of God... practicing Love fulfills the law for Jesus said that all of Gods law comes down to Love. If we are practicing love, we are living as christians and will have Gods approval.

So I am still looking for what that looks like today in your life? What are you doing with the good news that requires faith?