abomination of desolation

[VictoryinJesus]

Jeremiah 44:21-22
[21] The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them, and came it not into his mind? [22] So that the Lord could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.


I am not even going to attempt to touch on the abomination of desolation. Or the son of prediction which, possibly, Daniel shows us in bodily form. What I do want to touch on is the "abomination" part. Here are a few questions I have. They may be crazy questions but they are serious ones I am hoping those with more understanding can clarify.


Mark 13:2
[2] And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Luke 19:44-46
[44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. [45] And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; [46] Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

God dwells in a house made without hands now. The stones were overturned. Why would God return to a temple made WITH hands and consider it Holy ground therefore what is done within that temple be an abomination to God? Why turn the physical stones over and tear a physical house down and raise it again in three days, Spiritual? Why would God consider anything done in a man-made structure against Him now that He tore down and crucified the flesh. Why would He call it an abomination, a sacrifice in a house without His anointing or blessing? I get the verses about, he will be taken out of the way before that wickedness be revealed...but can someone explain to me why God would then return to a temple made with hands and fill it, making it Holy once again?

Matthew 27:39-40 KJV
[39] And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, [40] And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.


Mark 13:14
[14] But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


Mark 3:28-29 KJV
[28] Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: [29] But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Which makes those who reject the Spirit of God: antichrist??? Sons of disobedience.

Last question: the remnant, would they not return to be drawn to Christ?
Not a man made structure or a physical Israel...but rather gathered to the Spiritual Israel? They have seen Jesus, do they not now have to "see" Christ? Why would God return to the Old covenant and the flesh? I get the seventy weeks of Daniel (this I have been told) but when the Jews open their eyes to the truth: that they crucified their King. Will they not be drawn to Christ? Not a building or a physical place...but Spirit.

John 12:32
[32] And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[bbyrd009]

God dwells in a house made without hands now. The stones were overturned. Why would God return to a temple made WITH hands and consider it Holy ground therefore what is done within that temple be an abomination to God?

not quite sure what v you refer to @ "Why would God return to a temple made WITH hands?" but if you mean why would Jesus cleanse the temple there, imo bc the stones had not been thrown down yet, or iow He was still operating OT there, is my guess

Why turn the physical stones over and tear a physical house down and raise it again in three days, Spiritual?

to indicate the path we must follow, in freeing ourselves from the curse of the law. The "house" we built has to first be deconstructed; the cliff one must step off of to Meet Him in the Air is very real, and in my experience always manifests as a person's "life" completely falling apart, first. Anything else is fence-surfing, i think

 

[bbyrd009]

but can someone explain to me why God would then return to a temple made with hands and fill it, making it Holy once again?

back to the Q that needs clarification; are you referring to Christ cleansing the temple here?

if so, i would contemplate that we automatically place ourselves NT, at the very beginning of our walk, right; but Genesis is likely where we should be identifying with, with Adam iow. We are a looong way from grace when we begin our seeking, still have to learn the law, still have to Wander, still have to experience the law (church doctrine), etc.

of course this does not become clear until later, but Genesis contains the lessons for a newbie, Abel (the Shepherd) gets "murdered" by Cain, (the plower of his own ground; the path that church doctrine puts us on, that of sin-consciousness rather than forgiveness) even though preachers misinterpret the message into one of literal "meat sacrifice," which is not supported, imo, and etc

 

[VictoryinJesus]

not quite sure what v you refer to @ "Why would God return to a temple made WITH hands?" but if you mean why would Jesus cleanse the temple there, imo bc the stones had not been thrown down yet, or iow He was still operating OT there, is my guess

I am sorry I couldn't get the question right which is probably why I repeated it several times, rephrasing it. Are we waiting for Israel to rebuild the temple and resume the sacrifice, where the antichrist stands in God's Holy House claiming to be God. This is what I have heard in reference to "the abomination of desolation". The question I have is why would God consider it an abomination since His presence no longer dwells in a temple made with hands...is that clearer

 

[Helen]

Are we waiting for Israel to rebuild the temple and resume the sacrifice, where the antichrist stands in God's Holy House claiming to be God. This is what I have heard in reference to "the abomination of desolation". The question I have is why would God consider it an abomination since His presence no longer dwells in a temple made with hands...is that clearer

Well bless their hearts whoever "they are"who are waiting!
I'm not waiting for Israel to rebuild the temple or anything else. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Last question: the remnant, would they not return to be drawn to Christ?

i know this will seem apropos of nothing, but yes, they will, even if Noah's Raven will always be there with them

 

[bbyrd009]

Are we waiting for Israel to rebuild the temple and resume the sacrifice

Zionists are, yes, but i certainly don't recommend this lol. Many Jews are anti-Zionist also, fwiw

 

[bbyrd009]

where the antichrist stands in God's Holy House claiming to be God.

ok this phrase can be understood more than one way, see, it has a lot of personal symbology embedded in it, but pursuing a literal view here makes Nero and 70AD hard to deny for a literal fulfillment, i guess, even though many try, and a spiritual fulfillment is basically all of us, before we recognize that we have to get up out of that throne that we are sitting in egotistically. We all "claim to be God" in our personal temples, in a manner of speaking. Scripture likely puts that the way it does to do multiple duty, and allow anyone who does not wish to accept that they are evil to deny this reality when they read it, is my guess

 

[bbyrd009]

This is what I have heard in reference to "the abomination of desolation"

seems to me that you would be hard-pressed to avoid religious perspectives seeking there, ppl engaged in either wrangling about the past, or the future, or usually both. And i would develop my own understanding of "abomination of desolation" (and Esau, despising his birthright too, for that matter), and avoid povs generated by the same ppl who hit newbies with Predestination in their first week, fwiw.

it's termed Wandering for a reason, iow, i guess. They would surely tell you to avoid me like the plague too, right, and how can i prove that they are wrong? it is you that must seek your own salvation; you that is building on a firm foundation, now.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

All of the above contradicts everything I have been taught my entire life, or been told. I am not upset over it. It just shows me how little I know.

 

[bbyrd009]

The question I have is why would God consider it an abomination since His presence no longer dwells in a temple made with hands...is that clearer

actually, now that i have had a minute, yes, you have found a(nother) logical fallacy, nice!

 

[bbyrd009]

All of the above contradicts everything I have been taught my entire life, or been told. I am not upset over it. It just shows me how little I know.

little kids got us both whipped, don't forget tho lol
we ask little kids what to do, as a joke, but
knowledge brings sorrow

just tell the fam that you have changed your mind on a matter, and that you are now going to insist upon following the advice in spirit of your youngest child, and watch the fun begin lol. Trust me, your pastor will surely take up a gun so to speak and be on the front lines against you lol; this is "a good sign."

after this experience, or one spiritually similar, you will then be in a much better position to define "abomination of desolation" for yourself. Esau will clarify too prolly btw

 

[Helen]

All of the above contradicts everything I have been taught my entire life, or been told. I am not upset over it. It just shows me how little I know.

No worries...I am sure this wont be the last time and I doubt that it is the first time. :) None of us enjoy the experience, but God knows it is very often needful for us.

Bless you. x

 

[ScottA]

Jeremiah 44:21-22
[21] The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them, and came it not into his mind? [22] So that the Lord could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.


I am not even going to attempt to touch on the abomination of desolation. Or the son of prediction which, possibly, Daniel shows us in bodily form. What I do want to touch on is the "abomination" part. Here are a few questions I have. They may be crazy questions but they are serious ones I am hoping those with more understanding can clarify.


Mark 13:2
[2] And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Luke 19:44-46
[44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. [45] And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; [46] Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

God dwells in a house made without hands now. The stones were overturned. Why would God return to a temple made WITH hands and consider it Holy ground therefore what is done within that temple be an abomination to God? Why turn the physical stones over and tear a physical house down and raise it again in three days, Spiritual? Why would God consider anything done in a man-made structure against Him now that He tore down and crucified the flesh. Why would He call it an abomination, a sacrifice in a house without His anointing or blessing? I get the verses about, he will be taken out of the way before that wickedness be revealed...but can someone explain to me why God would then return to a temple made with hands and fill it, making it Holy once again?

Matthew 27:39-40 KJV
[39] And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, [40] And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.


Mark 13:14
[14] But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


Mark 3:28-29 KJV
[28] Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: [29] But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Which makes those who reject the Spirit of God: antichrist??? Sons of disobedience.

Last question: the remnant, would they not return to be drawn to Christ?
Not a man made structure or a physical Israel...but rather gathered to the Spiritual Israel? They have seen Jesus, do they not now have to "see" Christ? Why would God return to the Old covenant and the flesh? I get the seventy weeks of Daniel (this I have been told) but when the Jews open their eyes to the truth: that they crucified their King. Will they not be drawn to Christ? Not a building or a physical place...but Spirit.

John 12:32
[32] And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

You have it. Allelujah!

 

[pia]

All of the above contradicts everything I have been taught my entire life, or been told. I am not upset over it. It just shows me how little I know.

How lovely to see such a wise response, and you know what ? Join the club ! We all have so very much still to learn, we cannot contain it all, all at once, because most of it is so opposite of what we think or have been told ( according to the flesh )....It is the only right place to start with Jesus, knowing that we really KNOW nothing and then being teachable in the capable hands of the Holy Spirit...bless you :)

 

[pia]

@VictoryinJesus Hi....I too have had some issues trying to comprehend what we are being told here, but therein lies the danger....We MUST get the truth from above, anything less, will bring lies and confusion too easily...Without His understanding how are we supposed to understand spiritual things ? Many mere men have tried, and look at where that has gotten us ? Just horrid what men have done with this pure faith, we are supposed to have.

 

[Triumph1300]

@VictoryinJesus Hi....I too have had some issues trying to comprehend what we are being told here, but therein lies the danger....We MUST get the truth from above, anything less, will bring lies and confusion too easily...Without His understanding how are we supposed to understand spiritual things ? Many mere men have tried, and look at where that has gotten us ? Just horrid what men have done with this pure faith, we are supposed to have.

Yes if you'r not prepared it can be a jungle out there and many end up on that wide road.

 

[bbyrd009]

actually, now that i have had a minute, yes, you have found a(nother) logical fallacy, nice!

that we are called to get our selves--which are also supposed to die, right, we are s'posed to die to self--into heaven after we die is another pretty big one imo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

that we are called to get our selves--which are also supposed to die, right, we are s'posed to die to self--into heaven after we die is another pretty big one imo

I know you are not afraid to step outside the box we put God in.

We got a problem. He took my place and became His definition of: an abomination.

Isaiah 41:24
[24] Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

Proverbs 17:15
[15] He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord .

Deuteronomy 7:26
[26] Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.

He brought me into His house.

Deuteronomy 23:18
[18] Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

HE did that one too.

Now would be the time to bring up the serpent on a pole.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Isaiah 22:21-25
[21] And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. [22] And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. [23] And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house. [24] And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons. [25] In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the Lord hath spoken it .

Isaiah 53:7-11
[7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. [11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.