Abortion ?

[Triumph1300]

So, you say a living soul ceases to exist?
Why did you quote that scripture than?

 

[Truth]

Once a soul ("soul" = "baby in the womb") is aborted, it ceases to exist, according to Genesis 2:7...it will come back into existence in the resurrection.

I Agree! But it never had time to transgress, not able to discern good or evil, even though it had the curse of sin running through it's veins!

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

...it will come back into existence in the resurrection.

I will probably disagree with you here. There is a group ('babe to adult') in scripture which receive no resurrection, and will be as though they had not been. You can also find this in the testimony of Jesus if you look carefully. "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

 

[Marymog]

;)

Sorry, you're going to have to go to some of the other members here to get someone to whip you. I will only try to help you keep walking forward while leaving that baggage in Christ's hands.

Find some other member to whip me??? If it is so easy to "whip me" and my argument is so weak then why don't you do it yourself???

Maybe because you know that you have been whipped and there is no defense for your bizarre statements ;)

Your the one who was equating a soldier to a defenseless baby and you suggest I have baggage???

Your not able to tell someone that having an abortion (murder) is a sin because it depends on their emotional state, financial situation, family relationships, maturity level, psychological condition and even the conception circumstances and you suggest I have baggage???

How about the man who rapes a woman??? Are you not going to call it a sin because it depends on the mans emotional state, financial situation, family relationships, maturity level and psychological condition????

Thanks for your 'help of keeping me walking forward'. If approving of abortion and equating a soldier to a baby is forward in your eyes I would rather move backward. Way, way, way away from you!!! ;)

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I will be glad to speak with you on the subject if you so will. It is a delicate subject however. I would like to be as careful as possible about it.

Please, proceed.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Yep..that is "more or less" what I believe.
Unlike you though Mary..I choose to hold some things lightly.
Some things in scripture are clear...some things ( like this subject) are not clear.

But, on the above...I doubt if you'll find two people on the Site which agree with me. They all mostly believe that every thing is decided already...before the Day...and that people are already pre- judged one way or the other. That is their choice.

As for you last line...they will go to heaven or hell...
"Hell" as most believe it, is not what I believe. But of choice I don't often get into that ...again only a few here believe as I do.

Bless you H

Thank you BG.

How does Luke 23:43 fit into your belief?

What passages support your belief?

Mary

 

[Willie T]

;)
Find some other member to whip me??? If it is so easy to "whip me" and my argument is so weak then why don't you do it yourself???

Maybe because you know that you have been whipped and there is no defense for your bizarre statements ;)

Your the one who was equating a soldier to a defenseless baby and you suggest I have baggage???

Your not able to tell someone that having an abortion (murder) is a sin because it depends on their emotional state, financial situation, family relationships, maturity level, psychological condition and even the conception circumstances and you suggest I have baggage???

How about the man who rapes a woman??? Are you not going to call it a sin because it depends on the mans emotional state, financial situation, family relationships, maturity level and psychological condition????

Thanks for your 'help of keeping me walking forward'. If approving of abortion and equating a soldier to a baby is forward in your eyes I would rather move backward. Way, way, way away from you!!! ;)

Mary

It is kind of sad that your feel you need a beating (punishment for your abortion), but I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for, and it eases your hurt.

 

[Marymog]

It is kind of sad that your feel you need a beating (punishment for your abortion), but I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for, and it eases your hurt.

Dear Willie,

According to your belief if I don't have enough money in my pocket it is ok to abort a baby. Sooooo the only thing we should be sad about is your bizarre way of looking at a helpless baby in a womb.

Sorry, my mistake. According to your logic that baby is the same as a soldier. Your ok with the killing a helpless baby (if you don't have enough money in your bank account) but you can't kill an enemy soldier who is out to kill you. Let's shoot the branch above his head and scare him....... WEIRD way of thinking.

Need a beating??? Eases my hurt??? What the heck are you talking about??? You make no sense.

 

[Willie T]

Dear Willie,

According to your belief if I don't have enough money in my pocket it is ok to abort a baby. Sooooo the only thing we should be sad about is your bizarre way of looking at a helpless baby in a womb.

Sorry, my mistake. According to your logic that baby is the same as a soldier. Your ok with the killing a helpless baby (if you don't have enough money in your bank account) but you can't kill an enemy soldier who is out to kill you. Let's shoot the branch above his head and scare him....... WEIRD way of thinking.

Need a beating??? Eases my hurt??? What the heck are you talking about??? You make no sense.

We all here know what I am talking about. And Jesus is the path for you to be able to rise above the loathing you feel you deserve.

I never said it was OK for us to kill anyone. Not your abortion, or the many kids I ended the lives of from 200' away when they didn't even suspect I was there. But, I have let Christ take that guilt of so many lives from me. You really need to learn that you can too.

 

[complete]

Is it possible that an aborted soul is born again - twinc

'... our Lord Jesus Christ:
Which in His times He shall shew,
.. Who is the blessed and only Potentate,
.... the King of kings,
...... and Lord of lords;
Who only hath immortality,
.. dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;
.... whom no man hath seen, nor can see:
...... to whom be honour and power everlasting.
Amen.'
(1 Tim. 6:14b-16)

Hello Twinc,

A problem concerning death at any age is created by believing that man has an immortal soul: which he does not; for only One has immortality, as the verse above shows.

This mortal must put on immortality (1 Cor.15:53), and that will occur at the resurrection of the dead, or in the case of those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (in the twinkling of an eye - 1 Cor.15:52). So the baby who dies, or the dead of any age go to the place of the dead, or 'the grave', awaiting resurrection either to life everlasting or judgement and death.

The life of the believer is hid with Christ in God (Col. 3:3), and the Bible speaks of those who have died, in Christ, as being 'asleep in Christ' (1 Cor. 15:18), for death has no dominion over such (Rom. 6:8,9), and at the resurrection of the dead, they will receive life everlasting.

The soul that sinneth it shall surely die, and we who are the offspring of Adam, are sinners, no matter what our age and therefore die. Only salvation by grace through faith in the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ on our behalf can deliver us from the power of death and the grave, and give us the hope of eternal life, in Christ Jesus.

Yet, in the case of those who have never had the opportunity to live, or to hear the gospel of the grace of God, they will be judged accordingly, in that day, when our Lord judges the secrets of men's hearts: and there will be those of their number who will be granted life, for God will judge justly (Romans 2), according to His foreknowledge.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[aspen]

Abortion is wrong
Murder, an ancient cover up,
Our distorted justice condemns us
Church is eunuch

 

[Nancy]

'... our Lord Jesus Christ:
Which in His times He shall shew,
.. Who is the blessed and only Potentate,
.... the King of kings,
...... and Lord of lords;
Who only hath immortality,
.. dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;
.... whom no man hath seen, nor can see:
...... to whom be honour and power everlasting.
Amen.'
(1 Tim. 6:14b-16)

Hello Twinc,

A problem concerning death at any age is created by believing that man has an immortal soul: which he does not; for only One has immortality, as the verse above shows.

This mortal must put on immortality (1 Cor.15:53), and that will occur at the resurrection of the dead, or in the case of those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (in the twinkling of an eye - 1 Cor.15:52). So the baby who dies, or the dead of any age go to the place of the dead, or 'the grave', awaiting resurrection either to life everlasting or judgement and death.

The life of the believer is hid with Christ in God (Col. 3:3), and the Bible speaks of those who have died, in Christ, as being 'asleep in Christ' (1 Cor. 15:18), for death has no dominion over such (Rom. 6:8,9), and at the resurrection of the dead, they will receive life everlasting.

The soul that sinneth it shall surely die, and we who are the offspring of Adam, are sinners, no matter what our age and therefore die. Only salvation by grace through faith in the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ on our behalf can deliver us from the power of death and the grave, and give us the hope of eternal life, in Christ Jesus.

Yet, in the case of those who have never had the opportunity to live, or to hear the gospel of the grace of God, they will be judged accordingly, in that day, when our Lord judges the secrets of men's hearts: and there will be those of their number who will be granted life, for God will judge justly (Romans 2), according to His foreknowledge.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Charity, welcome! I must ask you, when you say "according to His foreknowledge", concerning the aborted babies...does that not take away from our free will to "choose this day whom you will serve"? The unborn had their choices taken away before the get go. Or, are you a believer in TULIP?
In His Name,
-nancy

 

[complete]

Hi Charity, welcome! I must ask you, when you say "according to His foreknowledge", concerning the aborted babies...does that not take away from our free will to "choose this day whom you will serve"? The unborn had their choices taken away before the get go. Or, are you a believer in TULIP?
In His Name,
-nancy

Hello Nancy,

I don't know what TULIP stands for I'm afraid.

Free will has nothing to do with this, for the dead who died without ever having heard the gospel of grace, or being able to seek God on the basis of what the heavens declare concerning Him, 'His eternal power and Godhead' (Psa.91:1 97:6; Romans 1:20), will be judged according to God's foreknowledge, for God who knows the secrets of men's hearts, would know how, had they heard, they would have responded, either with faith, or not. So He is able to judge justly and give life or not on that basis alone (see Romans 2).

Thank you for asking,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Marymog]

We all here know what I am talking about. And Jesus is the path for you to be able to rise about the loathing you feel you deserve.

I never said it was OK for us to kill anyone. Not your abortion, or the many kids I ended the lives of from 200' away when they didn't even suspect I was there. But, I have let Christ take that guilt of so many lives from me. You really need to learn that you can too.

Loathing I feel I deserve???

What in the world are you talking about????

My abortion???? Huh???

You make no sense so I will be moving on.

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Just a little something for anyone here who might need to hear this:
Guilt is what an individual feels when she has violated her own moral code. For the woman who has come to believe, at some point either before or after the abortion, that she consented to the killing of her unborn child, the burden of guilt is relentless. There is little consolation to offer the woman who has transgressed one of nature's strongest instincts: the protection a mother extends to her young. In fact, many post-abortive women believe that any unhappy events that have occurred since the abortion were inevitable because they "deserve it."
As I said, just something to put in your "Humm" Box for whenever you may encounter what seems to be irrational thinking about this.

 

[aspen]

Loathing I feel I deserve???

What in the world are you talking about????

My abortion???? Huh???

You make no sense so I will be moving on.

Mary

You hide behind the law
The law was created for people, not people for the law

 

[Nancy]

Hello Nancy,

I don't know what TULIP stands for I'm afraid.

Free will has nothing to do with this, for the dead who died without ever having heard the gospel of grace, or being able to seek God on the basis of what the heavens declare concerning Him, 'His eternal power and Godhead' (Psa.91:1 97:6; Romans 1:20), will be judged according to God's foreknowledge, for God who knows the secrets of men's hearts, would know how, had they heard, they would have responded, either with faith, or not. So He is able to judge justly and give life or not on that basis alone (see Romans 2).

Thank you for asking,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris,
I do understand what you are saying about God's foreknowledge. But, if a child has not even made it out of the womb, therefore has not been "born naturally" or, IMO "born of water", are they actually conceived in sin while still in the womb? Sorry if I'm not coming across very clear :. Their "free will to choose was taken away from them so how can they be born into original sin if they have not even had the chance TO be born?...things that make me go hmmm. Lol.

 

[Marymog]

You hide behind the law
The law was created for people, not people for the law

I don't understand what you mean. Can you clarify?

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Please, proceed.

Mary

Ok, can we have some time together (without responding to others for the time being here), so that rest of this thread is more easily digested?

If I may ask you, what is the definition of "abortion" that you are utilizing?

I believe it is important to define terms so that we understand what we are speaking about when we use terms with one another. Therefore we can begin to discuss the right/wrong/evil, etc of something.

For instance, there is a generic definition of 'abortion' with multiple subcategories, which is:

"... Definition of abortion

1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: such as
a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation — compare miscarriage
b : induced expulsion of a human fetus
c : expulsion of a fetus by a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancy — compare contagious abortion
2 a : a misshapen thing or person : monstrosity
b informal + sometimes offensive : something regarded as horrifically or disgustingly bad
3 : arrest of development (as of a part or process) resulting in imperfection; also : a result of such arrest ..." - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion

Therefore, in this (above) definition an 'abortion' could be classified as an early failure (by any means, natural or unnatural) of carrying to full term. An arrested (for whatever reason) pregnancy. For instance, a woman who falls, in a car wreck, through drastic hormonal change (fear, adrenaline), etc.

It could also include an 'ectopic' pregnancy which ends in failure.

It could include a failure to carry to term by reason of illness.

It also carries a metaphoric definition 'ugliness', etc.

etc.

So, when you would desire to speak about "abortion", would you be as specific as possble in the definition that you are using? Also, are you using only a definition which includes human, or all physical life (beasts, anmials, etc)?

Then, if we could consider the definition of "sin" and "evil" also after this first.

 

[aspen]

I don't understand what you mean. Can you clarify?

Abortion is a wedge issue.
It is a fact of life, which politicians have used to divide us
We need to preach life, not condemnation for those who abort their children.....regardless of legality