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Featured Abortion ?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by twinc, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Willie,

    You couldn't answer YES or NO if aborting a baby was right or wrong??? Until you knew me "well enough to have talked about it"????? What does it matter how well you know me to decide if abortion is right or wrong???? Could you clarify your statement???

    Are you equating killing or not killing an enemy soldier in WAR to abortion???

    Mary
     
  2. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    I am not asking you what you KNOW. I am asking you what you BELIEVE. We come to believe ALOT of things by reading scripture. After all your years of studying scripture and/or the writings of great theologians are you saying you have no educated guess on what happens to a persons soul once they die??? This subject has never crossed your mind and you have never dwelt on it, studied it or asked other Christians about it???

    Where a persons soul goes once they die is not an "obscure point of doctrine". Did you really mean that when you typed it??? How do you justify that statement??

    Mary
     
  3. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    I can speak for no one else...
    For myself...I do not believe that the Day of Judgement is here yet.
    The majority believe that at death a person goes one place or the other...I don't believe that.
    I strongly believe in a place between...so divine 'holding Place'.
    Maybe the unsaved are dead in the grave...but those who love God I believe are some place 'in God'.
    "Absent from the body, present with the Lord"

    But I don't believe anyone is in heaven or hell yet.
    It is not the end of time yet.
    We have not been weighed in the balances yet.
    I works have not... "been proved which sort they are ...wood, hay or stubble, gold silver or precious stones. "

    That is at the end of Time.

    But, not many agree with this. :)
     
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  4. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.

    Just so I understand you correctly I will summarize what I believe you are saying:

    Once a person dies their soul does not go to heaven or hell since it is not yet the end of time. At the end of time all the souls will be weighed in the balance. Once they are "weighed" they will go to heaven or hell.

    Did I get it right??? :)

    Mary
     
  5. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    To start with, Yes, ending a chance of someone, anyone, any age, to live a full life is the same whether in a hospital room or a rice paddy.

    And, again, "Yes", I think the emotional state, financial situation, family relationships, maturity level, psychological condition, and even the conception circumstances have all the world to do with the decision to have an abortion.

    I think you know who I dealt with for 24 years. Well, doing that, you soon learn that, as a psychologist once told me in my training, the world is not lived in Black or White. It exists in the wide, wide, spectrum of Grey that lies between the two.


    Whether you want to be pardoned and excused... or whether you are looking for punishment and condemnation, I am not going to just arbitrarily give you either. And I would certainly not do so even if I was a Westboro Baptist Fundie type. You have a heart that leads much of your living, and you are as human as any of us. And, last time I looked, I wasn't God.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  6. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not the same. A defenseless baby in a womb is not even close to a full grown soldier standing in a rice paddy with a gun in his hand and a grenade strapped to his belt both of which he has been trained on how to use with deadly results. His life choices took him to that war and put him in that situation. The baby had no choice. Ending the life of a defenseless baby OR a soldier who is there to kill you is not comparable. How bizarre to equate the two.

    This discussion CLEARLY is not about the REASON for an abortion. How did you get to that point??? This discussion is about is it wrong and were does a soul go upon death. It seems to me you are OK with abortion since you can't tell somebody that it is the taking of a life.

    No, I don't know who you dealt with for 24 years.

    I am not looking for a pardon or excused or punishment or condemnation decision from you. I don't even know what you mean by that. I just want to know what you believe. You can't seem to articulate what you believe or you don't know what you believe so I will move on.

    It seems that you believe we don't "know" anything and that we can only believe some things but the things we believe don't matter because we don't really know if the things we believe are true....Is that a good summary???

    Mary
     
  7. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    You went through a lot, didn't you?
     
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  8. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    I did.....for 24 years.

    What does that question have to do with you equating a soldier and a defenseless baby?

    Or you not being able to tell someone, until you get to know their circumstances, that having an abortion (murder) is a sin?

    Mary
     
  9. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, you're going to have to go to some of the other members here to get someone to whip you. I will only try to help you keep walking forward while leaving that baggage in Christ's hands.
     
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  10. TheHolyBookEnds

    TheHolyBookEnds Well-Known Member

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    I will be glad to speak with you on the subject if you so will. It is a delicate subject however. I would like to be as careful as possible about it.
     
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  11. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Yep..that is "more or less" what I believe.
    Unlike you though Mary..I choose to hold some things lightly.
    Some things in scripture are clear...some things ( like this subject) are not clear.

    But, on the above...I doubt if you'll find two people on the Site which agree with me. They all mostly believe that every thing is decided already...before the Day...and that people are already pre- judged one way or the other. That is their choice.

    As for you last line...they will go to heaven or hell...
    "Hell" as most believe it, is not what I believe. But of choice I don't often get into that ...again only a few here believe as I do.

    Bless you H
     
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  12. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    As for the abortion issue...I believe we have spoken before on it.
    If you remember my stand is..."God is no man's debtor"
    Although an aborted baby has been robbed of a full life...God is God...and He will always fill all the gaps. In God, they cannot lose out.

    I believe that at whatever age they were cut short...they are innocent of all things and go back to the heart of God.


    ....H
     
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  13. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    In others words you are a doubting Thomas, you need to see it, to experience it for yourself before you will believe it. Are you not willing to take God's word on the matter as recorded in the scriptures?

    If not this implies you have no faith in God, in his word. The Scriptures inform us of exactly what happens to an individual upon death (the same being in regards to an aborted child). The only exception to this rule being those who die in Christ henceforth.
     
  14. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    Z-8.jpg
     
  15. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Up till now, I had considered you one of the smarter people here, but you're making me wonder with a statement from way out in left field like that one. Go back and re-read what I said, trying the best you can to distinguish between the words, "Believe" and "Know."
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  16. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    The scriptures also say that Adam and Eve died when they partook of the wrong tree. As a result every child born naturally to woman was dead for what else could be born of a dead mother? But then came Jesus:

    "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

    When did an aborted child obtain the Life that Jesus brought?
     
  17. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    I would say the same go back and re-read what I said, I phrased it as a question, I was not implying you believed either way. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
     
  18. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    And if I asked you "Are you even a Christian?" (which I am NOT asking), would that be nothing more than me merely asking a casual question?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  19. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    First of all I believe it is important here to distinguish just what this life (spoken of in John 10:10) is that our Lord is to give and to whom it is to be given.

    “…I am come that they [mankind] might have life, and have it more abundantly (everlastingly)."

    In 2 Tim 1:10 the Apostle Paul mentions that at the appearing (the first advent) our Lord Jesus Christ in which he abolished death (the first death, Adamic death) on the cross, he likewise brought to light through the gospel message a new and living way of life not previously offer until then. Previous to this the only offer of life was that which all the prophets of old spoke and which the Jews believed. This was the resurrection of the dead, the “common salvation” (Jude 3) which in due time (during the millennial age) will be offered to the entire world.

    This resurrection involves the restoration and restitution of all that was lost in father Adam, primarily human perfection.

    But at the first advent, following our Lord’s great sacrifice he not only brought life to mankind (a resurrection to human perfection, in due time), but likewise he opened up a “new and living way” (Heb 10:19, 20), the “high calling”, which leads to the highest form of life to be offered, the divine nature, immortality, the first (the divine nature) to be given only to the overcoming spirit begotten believers of the Gospel age, and the latter (perfect human nature) to be given to all those who overcome during the Millennial age.

    Now to your question: When did an aborted child obtain the Life that Jesus brought?

    He hasn’t, no one has received this life (a resurrection to all that was lost in Adam) yet, save those believers who have taken the “second step” of a full consecration to the Lord, who have entered into covenant relationship with the Father, a “covenant by sacrificePsa 50:5, and then it is only reckon theirs, they don’t actually have it, but it is theirs reckon so by means of the imputation of the merit of Christ’ righteousness which vitalizes or completes their justification, making them holy and acceptable, reckoned perfect before the eyes of God.

    Our Lord's work as Advocate for the Church began when He appeared in the presence of God and made application of His precious blood on behalf of all those who come unto the Father by Him throughout the Gospel Age. (Heb. 9:24) Individually, He becomes our Advocate when we come into the acceptable condition by presenting ourselves as living sacrifices. This matter of the imputation of the merit of Christ to us and of our demerit to Him is, strictly speaking, one with which we have nothing to do. It is the Father's arrangement. God does not recognize us at all; for we are by nature sinners. He could not accept our sacrifices except as He imputes to us merit which we do not possess, but which our Lord Jesus Christ has provided. In this sense, our Lord's merit is said to be imputed to us and our demerit to Him.

    If A pays something on B's account, B's account is credited with the amount and A's is debited. Whatever is imputed to one in the way of merit is counted to the other by way of demerit. The merit of our Lord, which is to go ultimately to the world, is to this extent temporarily charged with our shortcomings, and will not be released until we shall have fulfilled our part of the covenant.

    Only through the imputation of the merit of Christ’ righteousness does our “faith justification” become actual justification.

    Such receive this actual justification only so as they might be permitted or qualified to become living sacrifices, acceptable upon the Lord’s altar (Rom 12:1) Remember no imperfect sacrifice was ever allowed upon the Lord’s altar.

    Only by surrendering their reckoned perfect human life rights (their restitutional life rights), can they be begotten to a new nature, the spirit nature.

    The rest of the world, which includes all those children aborted or stillborn having neither received nor surrendered their restitutional life rights secure to all through the ransom sacrifice of Christ will receive these in the next age, and if they are proven over comers in that age (sheep as opposed to goats) that life which they receive, human perfection will be made everlasting.

    Sorry for the length my brother, I know you have a hard time reading, but I felt it necessary to be through.
     
  20. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Once a soul ("soul" = "baby in the womb") is aborted, it ceases to exist, according to Genesis 2:7...it will come back into existence in the resurrection.
     
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